Updated patch coming later today...

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Yes, normally the very vocal fictional guys get everything. This was needed and is refreshing. The best way to increase the customer base is focusing on modern baseball first and historical baseball second, and it looks like Markus and Andreas have figured that out and are acting on it. I'm impressed.

I agree that having OOTP include real rosters will only help improve sales, but it just sucks because issues with roster sets is going to be a yearly thing and take away time from development to include basic immersion features that still haven't been included.

Its one thing for me to be bitching about no news stories when teams clinch playoff spots, but at least when he finally adds it, that will end the bitching.

Having real rosters in the game guarantees yearly bitching and of course yearly attempts to appease the people bitching.

[Andreas Raht]

Originally Posted by silvam14

I agree that having OOTP include real rosters will only help improve sales, but it just sucks because issues with roster sets is going to be a yearly thing and take away time from development to include basic immersion features that still haven't been included.

Thanks god Markus did not need to do the rosters work all alone. We have a great team of volunteers who made like 90% of the work. So, rosters do not take away too much time from development.
BTW, which of our Google ads have the best results? Those that mention "comes with 2011 ML rosters".

[The Wolf]

If the rosters and historical stuff can be handled by volunteers then no dev time need be lost.

[Tony M]

Originally Posted by Andreas Raht

BTW, which of our Google ads have the best results? Those that mention "comes with 2011 ML rosters".

So the game is better than the Houston Astros who appear to be lacking an ML roster!!

[ashantewarrier]

Originally Posted by silvam14

I agree that having OOTP include real rosters will only help improve sales, but it just sucks because issues with roster sets is going to be a yearly thing and take away time from development to include basic immersion features that still haven't been included.

Its one thing for me to be bitching about no news stories when teams clinch playoff spots, but at least when he finally adds it, that will end the bitching.

Having real rosters in the game guarantees yearly bitching and of course yearly attempts to appease the people bitching.

Silvam, I agree. Getting roster sets to match reality is analogous to hitting a moving target blindfold. Folks will never be 100% happy with the roster sets because they will feel ratings are off, contracts not accurate and "so and so would never be traded to such and such team" and etc. I've always felt that one you complete the current season the following year becomes fictional anyway.

[Donevyn]

Thanks for the update notes. Also that the Mac problem is being looked at. I am pondering getting a very low end PC laptop just to play this game (and a couple other's), for I seem to have to go thru allot of hoops to get games to run etc. correctly on the Mac (which I'm relatively new to. Been PC type for 30+ years).

[Jay Elias]

Eh. I generally play with real rosters, and mostly, the ones that were user released in the past or come with the game in recent additions are quite excellent. That said, a large part of the appeal of OOTP to me is that it is unique among baseball games in its attempt to simulate how baseball really works, and a large part of how baseball works today is through scouting and player development in the low minors. And as great as the roster sets are, here is where they often need the most work.

Take a look, for example, at the Baltimore Orioles. In the upper levels, the rosters are fine. But look at the lower levels, and the more recent draftees. Dan Klein was the O's 3rd round pick in the 2010 draft, was one of their top ten prospects entering the season, and had a strong 2010 as the closer for UCLA. He's a reliever with a starter's arsenal, throwing a fastball from 92-94, a plus slider, an average curve and a below average changeup. Until he went on the DL a few weeks ago with a SLAP tear in his throwing shoulder, he was tearing up the minors, dominating in A+ and then in AA. The updated roster set still has him throwing a fastball from 75-80, and a screwball. Neither of his pitches have any potential, nor does he have any promise as far as movement or control. If the O's are AI controlled, Klein will be released almost immediately and will end up disappearing from the game within a season. And it isn't just Klein; the same is true of a lot of later round picks from 2010 and other low minors prospects. On the O's alone, the same could be said for Parker Bridwell, Matt Bywater, and Clayton Schrader. In Kansas City, Kevin Chapman has the same problem; in Boston, Brandon Workman; Bryan Morgado and Mario Hollands for Philly; Rob Rasmussen for Florida; even first round pick Cam Bedrosian for the Angels.

None of this takes away from the overall excellence of the roster set, nor does it shock me particularly - I am used to this being a problem in the roster sets that come with OOTP. And I can and will invest the time in fixing them myself. But it isn't a nitpicking issue that teams' top prospects exist in name only, having no potential to impact the major league roster ever. And while it means I keep having to stop and restart my own process of fixing these players, I applaud the commitment on the part of OOTP to refine and improve the roster set. I wouldn't be angry with them if they didn't, but I can't say that this set succeeds in properly rating dozens of important players and prospects, and I'm glad that the people in charge care and want to see it improved.

[Grafton19]

Roster will never be a perfect art unless tons of people team up to help and you would still hear bitching

This team is great.. Do I want to kick markus in the knee for once again having to start my 2011 due to another patch? Yes =)

But, I could never do what him and his team do, so running the O's for years before they get good again can wait a few more hours =)

[t-bone shuffle]

Originally Posted by Jay Elias

Eh. I generally play with real rosters, and mostly, the ones that were user released in the past or come with the game in recent additions are quite excellent. That said, a large part of the appeal of OOTP to me is that it is unique among baseball games in its attempt to simulate how baseball really works, and a large part of how baseball works today is through scouting and player development in the low minors. And as great as the roster sets are, here is where they often need the most work.

Take a look, for example, at the Baltimore Orioles. In the upper levels, the rosters are fine. But look at the lower levels, and the more recent draftees. Dan Klein was the O's 3rd round pick in the 2010 draft, was one of their top ten prospects entering the season, and had a strong 2010 as the closer for UCLA. He's a reliever with a starter's arsenal, throwing a fastball from 92-94, a plus slider, an average curve and a below average changeup. Until he went on the DL a few weeks ago with a SLAP tear in his throwing shoulder, he was tearing up the minors, dominating in A+ and then in AA. The updated roster set still has him throwing a fastball from 75-80, and a screwball. Neither of his pitches have any potential, nor does he have any promise as far as movement or control. If the O's are AI controlled, Klein will be released almost immediately and will end up disappearing from the game within a season. And it isn't just Klein; the same is true of a lot of later round picks from 2010 and other low minors prospects. On the O's alone, the same could be said for Parker Bridwell, Matt Bywater, and Clayton Schrader. In Kansas City, Kevin Chapman has the same problem; in Boston, Brandon Workman; Bryan Morgado and Mario Hollands for Philly; Rob Rasmussen for Florida; even first round pick Cam Bedrosian for the Angels.

None of this takes away from the overall excellence of the roster set, nor does it shock me particularly - I am used to this being a problem in the roster sets that come with OOTP. And I can and will invest the time in fixing them myself. But it isn't a nitpicking issue that teams' top prospects exist in name only, having no potential to impact the major league roster ever. And while it means I keep having to stop and restart my own process of fixing these players, I applaud the commitment on the part of OOTP to refine and improve the roster set. I wouldn't be angry with them if they didn't, but I can't say that this set succeeds in properly rating dozens of important players and prospects, and I'm glad that the people in charge care and want to see it improved.

Great post. To piggy back on this, I've often thought that the game, and the roster set, would be better suited to limiting the minors to 3 levels (for example) and concentrating on getting the various top prospects and players as accurate as possible for these levels only. Some of it is the reality for what it takes to accurately model 5 minor league levels worth of players, with regards to the fact that it's done primarily by volunteers. I'd say it's more important to have a team's 1st round draft choice, properly rated and playing at say, single A, than it is to have him poorly rated and playing along side of a bunch of no-chancer's at Short Season or Rookie level. This is a case where at least IMO, less would equal more if properly approached.

And, I've said this before and I'll say it again. Like/believe/accept it or not, OOTP is now in the roster set business. Hell, Andreas even stated today, here http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post3164068, that the mention of "comes with 2011 MLB rosters" is their best resulting Google ad.
All of which means to me that the roster set needs to have a higher priority, should probably be a year round proposition, and that there should be many approaches considered for making it as, for lack of a better term, "strong" as possible. It should also be a money-maker for them, aside from the game itself, but it would have to be a very sold product.

[Grafton19]

I would help with the O's.. Any day of the week

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by t-bone shuffle

All of which means to me that the roster set needs to have a higher priority, should probably be a year round proposition, and that there should be many approaches considered for making it as, for lack of a better term, "strong" as possible. It should also be a money-maker for them, aside from the game itself, but it would have to be a very sold product.

This. Increased revenues will more than pay for the pain over trying to release without rosters, or very simple rosters. New rosters were the number 1 reason I preordered. Without them, I'd waited till the eventual price break in the off season. The deeper, more complete, and correct the better IMHO. It is something I'd even help to improve voluntarily, but I am sure they have plenty of volunteers. I doubt it is a problem of the number of people willing, it is the pain in the rear of coordinating volunteers. I spent a good part of my like dealing with that problem, and I can tell you more sometimes is not exactly better.

[mrcoach00]

I'd like to hear about the process of creating the MLB rosters. Andreas has already stated that about 90% of the rosters are made up by volunteers, which I think is great.

Perhaps one more layer needs to be considered in the roster creation process? Once the volunteers have had their input, then ship each team off to a serious fanboy or two of each MLB team. Sometimes just having a different set of eyes can be helpful. Give them a weekend to have their input and give it to Markus from there.

Grafton19 said he would take the O's. I would step up and look at the Cubs for OOTP13.

[Tony M]

Wouldn't it be easier if the players in real-life stuck to their expected stats as shown by OOTP with none of this 'break-out' season stuff or failing to meet expectations...

[Jay Elias]

Originally Posted by t-bone shuffle

Great post. To piggy back on this, I've often thought that the game, and the roster set, would be better suited to limiting the minors to 3 levels (for example) and concentrating on getting the various top prospects and players as accurate as possible for these levels only. Some of it is the reality for what it takes to accurately model 5 minor league levels worth of players, with regards to the fact that it's done primarily by volunteers. I'd say it's more important to have a team's 1st round draft choice, properly rated and playing at say, single A, than it is to have him poorly rated and playing along side of a bunch of no-chancer's at Short Season or Rookie level. This is a case where at least IMO, less would equal more if properly approached.

This I couldn't disagree with more. I would much, much prefer that the players be in the game but incorrectly modeled than for those levels to be excluded and to have to add in the levels and players who fill them manually. The existence of the incorrectly rated low minors players, with their proper ages and sizes and birthplaces, is a huge timesaver when trying to correct ratings manually. It is the difference in having it take a month to modify the roster set and it taking two or more months.

Of course, this is my personal preference; how I play and mod the game may not be how anyone else plays or would like to play. But I prefer to keep aiming towards the possibility of perfection in the league I will eventually play than I do about making sure that the game that ships is free of any errors at the cost of the low minors.

[t-bone shuffle]

Originally Posted by Jay Elias

This I couldn't disagree with more. I would much, much prefer that the players be in the game but incorrectly modeled than for those levels to be excluded and to have to add in the levels and players who fill them manually. The existence of the incorrectly rated low minors players, with their proper ages and sizes and birthplaces, is a huge timesaver when trying to correct ratings manually. It is the difference in having it take a month to modify the roster set and it taking two or more months.

Of course, this is my personal preference; how I play and mod the game may not be how anyone else plays or would like to play. But I prefer to keep aiming towards the possibility of perfection in the league I will eventually play than I do about making sure that the game that ships is free of any errors at the cost of the low minors.

I hear you and am certain that many agree with you too. If it were my responsibility, I'd be offering the set you want, and the set I suggest too. I'd also have a set that begins just prior to Spring Training and one that's and Opening Day. In other words, lot's of options and varying sizes. All of which takes time and effort. All of which I'd find a way to charge for.

[WWBL Commissioner]

Originally Posted by Andreas Raht

I'm still working on improving the OOOL features and fixing the bugs, and that's one of them - but it's not as you describe it. This can only happen under certain conditions.

Well for me the conditions were I summed a day, uploaded league files, then the GM's downloaded the update and were logged in as me. Glad to hear your working on it, thanks

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by Jay Elias

Eh. I generally play with real rosters, and mostly, the ones that were user released in the past or come with the game in recent additions are quite excellent. That said, a large part of the appeal of OOTP to me is that it is unique among baseball games in its attempt to simulate how baseball really works, and a large part of how baseball works today is through scouting and player development in the low minors. And as great as the roster sets are, here is where they often need the most work.

Take a look, for example, at the Baltimore Orioles. In the upper levels, the rosters are fine. But look at the lower levels, and the more recent draftees. Dan Klein was the O's 3rd round pick in the 2010 draft, was one of their top ten prospects entering the season, and had a strong 2010 as the closer for UCLA. He's a reliever with a starter's arsenal, throwing a fastball from 92-94, a plus slider, an average curve and a below average changeup. Until he went on the DL a few weeks ago with a SLAP tear in his throwing shoulder, he was tearing up the minors, dominating in A+ and then in AA. The updated roster set still has him throwing a fastball from 75-80, and a screwball. Neither of his pitches have any potential, nor does he have any promise as far as movement or control. If the O's are AI controlled, Klein will be released almost immediately and will end up disappearing from the game within a season. And it isn't just Klein; the same is true of a lot of later round picks from 2010 and other low minors prospects. On the O's alone, the same could be said for Parker Bridwell, Matt Bywater, and Clayton Schrader. In Kansas City, Kevin Chapman has the same problem; in Boston, Brandon Workman; Bryan Morgado and Mario Hollands for Philly; Rob Rasmussen for Florida; even first round pick Cam Bedrosian for the Angels.

I created a post a few days ago in regards to 2010 draftees being rated rather low when compared to others. Unbacker58 mentioned this was a known problem, but due to time they were unable to finish. He did mention however, they would be addressed in a patch.

Here is the post with his comments. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...oster-set.html

[Andreas Raht]

12.1.11 is now online! More details here: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...-released.html