The only baseball sim I've ever gotten addicted to...

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by Erad67

I too was a big fan of ITP and was really looking forward to it being developed further.

For you guys that let your fictional leagues run for 5+ years before jumping in as a manager, how do you get a job offer that is not for the low minors?

I just assign myself to the worst team without a GM at the start of the offseason. After that first team you'll usually get offers next time you go looking for a job.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by Erad67

I too was a big fan of ITP and was really looking forward to it being developed further.

For you guys that let your fictional leagues run for 5+ years before jumping in as a manager, how do you get a job offer that is not for the low minors?

The magic Commissioner button....

[LeiterFanatic]

Originally Posted by Erad67

I too was a big fan of ITP and was really looking forward to it being developed further.

With the continuing success and devlopment of The Show's Road To The Show feature, I would think that the market share for ITP2 would only be growing. Though I understand console players and computer players are not necessarily the same people. I do think a ballplayer name attached to ITP2 (Schilling or not) would get some of those console players to take a shot.

[MizzouRah]

Smart man picking the Cardinals to win the Central on Sportscenter last night!

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by LeiterFanatic

With the continuing success and devlopment of The Show's Road To The Show feature, I would think that the market share for ITP2 would only be growing.

And you'd be right. If OOTP pushes modern and historical baseball hard there are many, many new customers to be gained out there, and the time is also ripe for Curt Schilling's (or Bronson Arroyo's, for that matter) Inside The Park Baseball...for the iPhone, iPad, and maybe even for the PC.

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

And you'd be right. If OOTP pushes modern and historical baseball hard there are many, many new customers to be gained out there, and the time is also ripe for Curt Schilling's (or Bronson Arroyo's, for that matter) Inside The Park Baseball...for the iPhone, iPad, and maybe even for the PC.

I disagree, even though I'm a big fan of ITP. The fact is the sport management genre isn't that big in the United States, and it probably never will be. I think with more marketing the number of customers could be increased a bit, however it will never be remotely the same as the market for the more traditional genres that sell well here in the United States.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

I disagree, even though I'm a big fan of ITP. The fact is the sport management genre isn't that big in the United States, and it probably never will be. I think with more marketing the number of customers could be increased a bit, however it will never be remotely the same as the market for the more traditional genres that sell well here in the United States.

Yes, my friend, but I'm in marketing and you're not, and you're thinking conventionally. There is a huge iPhone/iPad market just sitting out there waiting for games like ITP.

Which, by the way, would not really be a sports management game, but the sports text/graphics version of a first person shooter...which is how you market it.

[tkirch]

gehrig,

One thing I have found when setting up a league, make templates versions of the file during your set-up at different stages in case you have to go back and change something and want to start over you can go back to that point instead of constantly starting from scratch.

Todd

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Yes, my friend, but I'm in marketing and you're not, and you're thinking conventionally. There is a huge iPhone/iPad market just sitting out there waiting for games like ITP.

Well I think you'd have to look into how many sales iOOTP has in comparison to other game applications before you can say any market is sitting anywhere. OOTP's market is likely still far larger than iOOTP's but is still no where near the level of platformers, RPGs, 1st Person Shooters or any of the other more standard genres.

I'm still not sold on the long term viability of the gaming market on the iPad simply due to American's short attention spans.

Now, if you were to approach Playstation or Microsoft in an attempt to get a downloadable version of OOTP on their console's online services that would be a better direction to go IMO as you'll be reaching a far larger audience who are more dedicated to games. Most people who play games on the iPad and iPhone are casual gamers who will be turned off by the level of depth OOTP goes into.

[The Wolf]

There's a lot of things that could be done with OOTP. I'd start with online commercial OOTP leagues with a monthly subscription fee. With paid professionals doing the commissioner work that could be huge and could even make a dent in the fantasy market.

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

and could even make a dent in the fantasy market.

I don't know. I really don't think fantasy baseball players would be that interested in it. I could be wrong, not being a fantasy baseball player.

It's just a genre that gets little to no publication, on air time, or even notice at E3. That's the problem. You're not just trying to introduce a new game to a market, you're trying to introduce a whole different style of game in a market that is heavily dominated by EA and 2k. Even developers with deep pockets and industry connections can't compete with those two. The only company that has had any real success trying to break through was Sony themselves and that is in large part because they own the console.

[The Wolf]

Matt, you don't need to be huge to make a lot of money.

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Matt, you don't need to be huge to make a lot of money.

No but when it comes to gaming you need quite a bit of money even to get your product noticed. There are literally thousands of companies who have gone under and had to close up shop simply because they didn't have enough behind them to compete with the larger names in the industry.

[megamanmatt]

One other thing to consider is that as far as I know 2k has the only 3rd party developer license when it comes to MLB games, and if OOTP starts making waves and 2k takes notice that could lead to 2k taking them to court over it which wouldn't end well for any of us.

I'm not totally sure how that would work though as I'm not a lawyer.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

No but when it comes to gaming you need quite a bit of money even to get your product noticed. There are literally thousands of companies who have gone under and had to close up shop simply because they didn't have enough behind them to compete with the larger names in the industry.

And there are quite a few who make money as small outfits. The trick is to manage your finances well, market properly, and don't overextend. Just like OOTP to date.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

One other thing to consider is that as far as I know 2k has the only 3rd party developer license when it comes to MLB games, and if OOTP starts making waves and 2k takes notice that could lead to 2k taking them to court over it which wouldn't end well for any of us.

I'm not totally sure how that would work though as I'm not a lawyer.

The courts established some time back that nobody can ever own news or history, Matt. Just images, team nicknames and logos and such.

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

And there are quite a few who make money as small outfits. The trick is to manage your finances well, market properly, and don't overextend. Just like OOTP to date.

To do that though they're going to need some backing. You're talking about going up against companies that spend millions on marketing. Marketing is actually one of the largest expense most development companies incur which is why in the last 10 years we've seen a lot of developers having to bite the bullet and sell themselves to a publisher who will help them incur some of that debt. It's not like it was in the 80's and 90's where a studio could just start up and churn out games and expect a decent profit. The current economic climate has all but put the kibosh on that.

[jar2574]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

And there are quite a few who make money as small outfits. The trick is to manage your finances well, market properly, and don't overextend. Just like OOTP to date.

Exactly. Keep your overhead low, and you can make money.

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

The courts established some time back that nobody can ever own news or history, Matt. Just images, team nicknames and logos and such.

Which removes team names, nick names, logos, players, and stadiums.

Player's names and likenesses are all owned and controlled by the MLBPA which I believe is part of 2k's third party development rights.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

To do that though they're going to need some backing. You're talking about going up against companies that spend millions on marketing. Marketing is actually one of the largest expense most development companies incur which is why in the last 10 years we've seen a lot of developers having to bite the bullet and sell themselves to a publisher who will help them incur some of that debt. It's not like it was in the 80's and 90's where a studio could just start up and churn out games and expect a decent profit. The current economic climate has all but put the kibosh on that.

Matt, I have seen people in real life doing just what you say can't be done.

It can be done.