Comments and Feedback for 26th April update

[AESP_pres]

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

From what someone else posted and I am not going to mention him, since this is now the 4th time I have quoted this person.

This is why I stop commenting too, with the number of time the real facts were repeated by me and others if someone don't want to understand he/she never will... Just don't worth the time and effort (and there always the risk of getting an infraction).

[Chicagofan76]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

This is why I stop commenting too, with the number of time the real facts were repeated by me and others if someone don't want to understand he/she never will... Just don't worth the time and effort (and there always the risk of getting an infraction).

i was gonna copy and post your thing with posting the newsletter but the 1 i posted was smaller.

Well i figured out why DJ morton got banned after reading that post.

[AESP_pres]

But I must say for him that I like him a little bit much with his second personality. I think the cancelation of his long time username teach him to relax a little bit before posting, since it's never good to post when we are angry.

[Chicagofan76]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

But I must say for him that I like him a little bit much with his second personality. I think the cancelation of his long time username teach him to relax a little bit before posting, since it's never good to post when we are angry.

yeah i can account for that 1 i am an infraction or 2 away from getting this 1 banned

[mm7607]

The longer it takes for 12 to be released is going to cut into development of 13. I would like to see Markus skip v12 and all efforts put on v13. It would give him plenty of time to add tons of features and maybe even real graphics. It could be a totally new version and not just a warmed over v11. I would gladly pay 75 bucks or more for some new options that keep getting passed over. As it is I'm probably going to pass on v12 anyway.

[Germaniac]

Just recently I started playing seriously after buying OOTP10 one-and-a-half years ago ... and I pre-ordered OOTP12.

I have to admit that I am very surprised that there apparently are only three guys programming this game.

When I read all this stuff about how looooong the release date has been delayed ... it's been said by several others, spring is spring and summer doesn't start until the middle of June.

And honestly, do we really want the release of the game to be rushed or do we want all the features Markus promised along with a serious beta test ??

Some guys proposed the addition of more programmers to speed up the development and release - assuming they add two or three guys, does that assure them that more copies (or the same number at a higher price) are sold in order to increase their income so that they can pay these guys from that ??

I don't think so.

And as every businessman has to do, Markus has to make decisions - and from his postings, I understand that he was surprised that he had to put that much time into iOOTP ...

... but it's a move to jump into that fast increasing market - and that should benefit the whole project, and so I assume that we all benefit from it in the long run.

[cbbl]

I wish I were a marketing professional who could offer a solution to get OOTP more publicity. It seems like it has a ton of potential, and if manager games in Europe really sell a million copies, why couldn't a manager game in the U.S. sell the same?

Either the market isn't there, or OOTP hasn't figured out how to expand into it. Given the small size of the group that publish this game, I'd suspect the latter, but as I said, can't offer any solutions. Word of mouth is valuable, but its not going to be the best way to expand sales.

Of course, Markus has already tried teaming up with a gaming powerhouse once, with not-so-great consequences.

Anyway, the only thing I can think of requires either a large marketing budget, partnering with a large game house, or perhaps merging with another baseball game developer. I'm sure all three have been considered, along with other things, so well... I guess my post doesn't have much of a point!!

FWIW, despite my frustrations with customized names over the years, I remain a loyal annual purchaser of the game -- even OOTP 11 which I never even played! I guess $39.95 a year doesn't make me a sugar daddy though, does it?

[Chicagofan76]

Originally Posted by mm7607

The longer it takes for 12 to be released is going to cut into development of 13. I would like to see Markus skip v12 and all efforts put on v13. It would give him plenty of time to add tons of features and maybe even real graphics. It could be a totally new version and not just a warmed over v11. I would gladly pay 75 bucks or more for some new options that keep getting passed over. As it is I'm probably going to pass on v12 anyway.

I am expecting 13 to be released in July of 2012, and thats only because of the potential headaches adding graphics may present. I'll be 1 of the 1st with suggestions and questions on what will be added.

[AESP_pres]

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

I am expecting 13 to be released in July of 2012, and thats only because of the potential headaches adding graphics may present.

Is this confirmed by Markus? If so, OOTP 12 will be my last one

Graphics cause way too much conflict and crash for something useless for what is a text game and not an arcade baseball game.

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

Is this confirmed by Markus? If so, OOTP 12 will be my last one

Graphics cause way too much conflict and crash for something useless for what is a text game and not an arcade baseball game.

Markus has stated for some time that a long term goal of his for OOTP was to eventually have some kind of Quasi-3d graphical representation if the players and a stadium creator.

So you may be out of luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AESP_pres]

So it isn't for soon
I know some like the idea and this is fun for them, but for me not so

But like I said often the version don't stop to work after a year, so I hope the real focus of the game will be upgrade before the game become an arcarde one and force me out of it.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

So it isn't for soon
I know some like the idea and this fun for them, but for me not so

But like I said often the version don't stop to work after a year, so I hope the real focus of the game will be upgrade before the game become an arcarde one and force me out of it.

Well, typically I stay out of this discussion, but I can say this with a good amount of confidence. It will never be 'arcade' in its nature. The graphics will be implemented to provide the best representation possible of what is occuring in-game, and it will be an option.

[RandyMyers]

I have read and watched (and very occasionally posted) in these forums...

I really believe that OOTP is a very good product and offers an incredible value. I am looking forward to playing around with v12. I also think Markus is great and therefore deserves my support weather I barely play his game or not (we need to support a person who puts forth as good of service to his customers as he does)...

With that said I do believe that there is a bit of a mis-conception or mis-understanding in these forums. OOTP is an excellent game, however it is certainly not the only player in the baseball simulation market. In actuality it is probably one of the smaller players.... it was mentioned in a thread that I read the other day that it owns the baseball sim market, and out sells all others by a long way.... (can't remember the exact words but this was the meaning of the post)...

Outsells SOM... even though I would never purchase another one of their products after being a customer for over 30 years, I can say in very certain terms that they out sell OOTP probably at the very least 10-1. If you visit other baseball simulation companies forums you would find out very quickly that OOTP is hardly ever even mentioned, let alone discussed as a real competitor. I am not saying that it does not deserve to be, because it does.

I was reading a thread from a gentleman looking to switch off of DMB after many many years because the game has become stagnate and the future for the company is very cloudy. Action PC! and SOM were the two most often discussed. OOTP was not mentioned at all, until I mentioned that if a replay game is what he was looking for than Action PC! should be the front runner, but if a financial model, career type, or fictional simulation is what he was after than he should investigate OOTP.

My point is that I believe OOTP is a great game but I seriously believe that Markus is missing the boat, and missing moving to that next level (as some have mentioned in this thread) by being so delinquent in the yearly releases. It appears from what has been posted a few post back, late May, June releases are the norm. This is straight out missing the boat for new customers. The perennial customer that buys every year is used to and has grown accustomed to this release schedule. New fans/potential customers are hot for a new Baseball game in March and early April... by not having OOTP available at this time a huge number of potential customers are lost.

I have no solution other than to suggest upping his schedule to begin work on the new version far earlier. Yes he may pick up some customers from the iOOTP app; however even that may be too late to hit the market to have the impact that was desired. I do not claim to know all, however I do have some experience, education, training, etc. in this field. I do wish him the best but I do believe he is missing the boat.

The OOTP name should be discussed in other forums along with other games. A lot of sales are gained in this manor. I was actually lucky to stumble upon OOTP because I was looking for something different, and even then I only found mention of it a couple of times (and I looked for quit some time).

Therefore, I suggest; instead of non-stop defending OOTP and the delinquent release schedule you may want to really think as to why OOTP has not moved to a higher status. I do not believe it is the game and certainly it is not Markus' handling of customer service.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by cbbl

I wish I were a marketing professional who could offer a solution to get OOTP more publicity. It seems like it has a ton of potential, and if manager games in Europe really sell a million copies, why couldn't a manager game in the U.S. sell the same?

OOTP is amazing but Football Manager is in a whole another dimension in terms of quality.
That is not a knock on OOTP at all. FM has the advantage of having a staff of over 100 working on the game from year to year and has a budget that dwarfs what Markus can put into the game.

This is why iOOTP is so vital to the company. If it can bring in new resources for the company then perhaps they can add a second coder and then maybe a third and then maybe an artist and so on and so forth.

[Chicagofan76]

Originally Posted by endgame

Well, typically I stay out of this discussion, but I can say this with a good amount of confidence. It will never be 'arcade' in its nature. The graphics will be implemented to provide the best representation possible of what is occuring in-game, and it will be an option.

Thanx Endgame u got it more right then I probably would have said. AESP he plans it for 13. Myself, I am no longer on the "need" graphics bandwagon, while I still want it to a degree. I am not sold that it wont provide a plethora of challenges and massive headaches for anyone doing the coding, and then there will be the frustrations from "us" who want graphics of what they add wont be enough or will be too much.
I have no clue what exactly he has plans for graphics I know he mentioned some time ago that is was based off of a game that came out somewhere before 2000. But a question I have depending on what detail the graphics will have. Will they have batting stances as other games do/did. HH had 5-10 base batting/pitching stances, but then u get players like Ichiro with his unique stance and there was no one who came close.
Since I just steered this thread off topic, I am gonna leave this alone til after 12 comes out then we can start a 13 debate.

[Germaniac]

What sets OOTP apart from most other games is that we all can get in direct communication with Markus - requesting special features and getting a personal response from him ...

... do you think "Mr. Electronic Arts" would implement some features because one of us asked by mail or in a forum ??

We have something very special here and should do our best to support Markus and this game.

[RandyMyers]

Electronic Arts would certainly not be considered in my view for the Baseball Simulation market. They are at heart an arcade game not a simulation. This is an issue I see over and over. People believe they are the competition; they are not.

Strat-O-Matic is... and yes they do include suggestions from customers although their customer service is severely lacking... DMB, Cactus League and others are in the simulation market.

Dave Koch from Action PC! listens and incorporates customers suggestions. Since 2011 was released in December several patches, most of which add additional features requested by fans. Yes, features are many times added in patches and not only on version revisions. BTW- they have 4 different games and also have a staff of three I believe. (on a side note, 2011 had a huge amount of features added and was quite possibly the largest update in their baseball game history. Also Football 2011 was just released, and again a pretty substantial update.) So my point of reference as to why Markus is delinquent may be tainted by looking at the real competition.

Action has been using a digital download model for several years now. I read that SOM is releasing digital downloads this month. They have had the new version available in CD form since prior to opening day. So when looking at the heart of the issue, Markus would be wise to look at what the true competition is doing and forget about the EA conglomerate.

Therefore the previous post makes no sense and shows a complete lack of understanding the competition. The point that I have been trying to make and one of the things that I feel has held OOTP back.

Oh, btw, Steve Barken and others from SOM read and post in their forums. Dave Koch and his other staff read and post in their forums. And as I have stated on several occasions, Markus and Dave Koch are in a completely separate league from the others as far as customer care is concerned. The gaming industry as a whole could take a great lesson from watching these two men and how they value their customers.

[HH20xx convert]

Originally Posted by RandyMyers

I have read and watched (and very occasionally posted) in these forums...

I really believe that OOTP is a very good product and offers an incredible value. I am looking forward to playing around with v12. I also think Markus is great and therefore deserves my support weather I barely play his game or not (we need to support a person who puts forth as good of service to his customers as he does)...

With that said I do believe that there is a bit of a mis-conception or mis-understanding in these forums. OOTP is an excellent game, however it is certainly not the only player in the baseball simulation market. In actuality it is probably one of the smaller players.... it was mentioned in a thread that I read the other day that it owns the baseball sim market, and out sells all others by a long way.... (can't remember the exact words but this was the meaning of the post)...

Outsells SOM... even though I would never purchase another one of their products after being a customer for over 30 years, I can say in very certain terms that they out sell OOTP probably at the very least 10-1. If you visit other baseball simulation companies forums you would find out very quickly that OOTP is hardly ever even mentioned, let alone discussed as a real competitor. I am not saying that it does not deserve to be, because it does.

I was reading a thread from a gentleman looking to switch off of DMB after many many years because the game has become stagnate and the future for the company is very cloudy. Action PC! and SOM were the two most often discussed. OOTP was not mentioned at all, until I mentioned that if a replay game is what he was looking for than Action PC! should be the front runner, but if a financial model, career type, or fictional simulation is what he was after than he should investigate OOTP.

My point is that I believe OOTP is a great game but I seriously believe that Markus is missing the boat, and missing moving to that next level (as some have mentioned in this thread) by being so delinquent in the yearly releases. It appears from what has been posted a few post back, late May, June releases are the norm. This is straight out missing the boat for new customers. The perennial customer that buys every year is used to and has grown accustomed to this release schedule. New fans/potential customers are hot for a new Baseball game in March and early April... by not having OOTP available at this time a huge number of potential customers are lost.

I have no solution other than to suggest upping his schedule to begin work on the new version far earlier. Yes he may pick up some customers from the iOOTP app; however even that may be too late to hit the market to have the impact that was desired. I do not claim to know all, however I do have some experience, education, training, etc. in this field. I do wish him the best but I do believe he is missing the boat.

The OOTP name should be discussed in other forums along with other games. A lot of sales are gained in this manor. I was actually lucky to stumble upon OOTP because I was looking for something different, and even then I only found mention of it a couple of times (and I looked for quit some time).

Therefore, I suggest; instead of non-stop defending OOTP and the delinquent release schedule you may want to really think as to why OOTP has not moved to a higher status. I do not believe it is the game and certainly it is not Markus' handling of customer service.

As another loyal customer, and infrequent poster on the boards, I think your conclusions are absolutely on the mark. My suggestion for next year's release involves shortchanging us a tiny bit on OOTP 12. Markus has only so much time and energy to devote, so here is my 'master plan' for his consideration:

1- Release 12, then follow up with bug fixes and roster updates as necessary, Markus has always been great with this.
2- No program updates for 12. We always appreciate these, but they can wait for next year and must take time to implement and test.
3- Take a nice long vacation during baseball season, maybe another in the fall to recharge the batteries.
4- Start programming 13 with the goal of being ready to beta test by Feb 1st, 2012. That leaves two months for problems/slippages, etc.
5- Drop in updated rosters in March and shoot for an April 1, 2012 release date.

No more work will need to be done to implement this--it just needs to be done earlier in the year. By July 1, 2012 the OOTP group would have as much time off under either release schedule, maybe more if cutting back on the care and feeding of OOTP 12 saves significant time. I'm as close to certain as I can be that equal work will produce greater rewards for Markus and his group if he tries this.

[RyanVB8]

Originally Posted by HH20xx convert

As another loyal customer, and infrequent poster on the boards, I think your conclusions are absolutely on the mark. My suggestion for next year's release involves shortchanging us a tiny bit on OOTP 12. Markus has only so much time and energy to devote, so here is my 'master plan' for his consideration:

1- Release 12, then follow up with bug fixes and roster updates as necessary, Markus has always been great with this.
2- No program updates for 12. We always appreciate these, but they can wait for next year and must take time to implement and test.
3- Take a nice long vacation during baseball season, maybe another in the fall to recharge the batteries.
4- Start programming 13 with the goal of being ready to beta test by Feb 1st, 2012. That leaves two months for problems/slippages, etc.
5- Drop in updated rosters in March and shoot for an April 1, 2012 release date.

No more work will need to be done to implement this--it just needs to be done earlier in the year. By July 1, 2012 the OOTP group would have as much time off under either release schedule, maybe more if cutting back on the care and feeding of OOTP 12 saves significant time. I'm as close to certain as I can be that equal work will produce greater rewards for Markus and his group if he tries this.

I agree with both of these posts. I get really worked up for opening day and would love to have the game at the start of the season. I love the series and think it is the best on the market. My only gripe is I would like to play the new version close to opening day not after 25% the season has already been played out.

[swampdragon]

If you divide the market into three parts, you have the fictional players, the historical players (raises hand), and those who want to play the current season. He should have the fictional market cornered already, so he needs to focus on the other two. The release date really matters to those who want to play the current season or the one that just finished. Most of the competition releases a version with updates and the just finished season around the first of the year, give or take a month, and follows that up with a projection download for the new season sometime around Opening Day. So those who prefer that gaming model will already have their game for the year long before OOTP is released.

I really don't think FM is the right comparable to use. I wonder what the best selling game in America without graphics or arcade elements is, and how far behind the arcade games those sales are. I don't know that Markus can ever get beyond the hard core niche market he currently services. I know what I would do to expand the appeal to the hard core. I would release OOTP 12 on schedule, and skip the year 2012 for any new enhancements at all. Instead, I'd release a version with the just completed season as a template at the first of the year, and I'd follow that up with the upcoming season template on or before Opening Day 2012, just to adjust the schedule. That would give him a year and a half after the upcoming release to include the major improvements he plans for 2013 and still get the game out in time for people who want to play current seasons to consider the purchase.