Real Money League

[jrainor]

I love this idea and I would play in a second. It's no different then the fantasy baseball I am in. Let's get it running and we can use leaguesafe to keep the money. Plus the idea of your payroll dictating your buy in is a great idea. Not only would you have great owners who are dedicated and keep up on there teams but you would have fiscally responsible owners as well.... I would play in this league in a heartbeat!!!

[The Wolf]

This might not be a bad idea for a moneymaker for OOTP. They run the online league, every GM buys in and is then charged a dollar per million dollar's worth of payroll when the season begins, there's a luxury tax, and everyone gets paid back on a per win basis. You could be the Yankees and try to buy it, go Moneyball and try for the most wins per buck, or go all (insert favorite cheap team name here) and cut your payroll to the bone and play to see how many wins you can luck into; any of the approaches could make money. And any of them could lose it.

I tell you, it's an OOTP business opportunity. If OOTP ran it, I'd play for sure.

[JJBranham17]

I need a very good co-commish. Someone who will be great at running the site and running the sims. I would run the structure and deal with owners and such. Anyone have a great one in mind?

Personally don't like dimebags idea. To me it is too confusing. I want the league to be setup just like MLB. We all know the rules and the structure so why make it harder? I personally would love a $1 per 1 million structure but if need be we could cut that down to .50 cents or even .25 cents per million if we had to.

Also, if we got this up and running EVERY decision would be vote based. How many sims we run per week, how many days per sim, etc. etc.

Not that it is near the same but I run a fantasy football league that is franchised and we are going into our 6th year. I am good at this kind of stuff and again I know if we got a good co-commish and the right owners this would be one of those sim leagues that would last forever.

[pbar25]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

This might not be a bad idea for a moneymaker for OOTP. They run the online league, every GM buys in and is then charged a dollar per million dollar's worth of payroll when the season begins, there's a luxury tax, and everyone gets paid back on a per win basis. You could be the Yankees and try to buy it, go Moneyball and try for the most wins per buck, or go all (insert favorite cheap team name here) and cut your payroll to the bone and play to see how many wins you can luck into; any of the approaches could make money. And any of them could lose it.

I tell you, it's an OOTP business opportunity. If OOTP ran it, I'd play for sure.

I've been asking them for years to do this, but the chances are slim to none as the interest and passion is not there. It would have to be treated as a business, as that's what it would be.

It would be a huge money-maker for OOTP. An ever-expanding fictional online baseball universe fueled by an actual free market dictating everything. Gaming for profit.
And one of the final hurdles for OOTP would be complete: their financial system. You can't simulate baseball's financial model, you have to actually do it.

[pbar25]

Originally Posted by JJBranham17

I need a very good co-commish. Someone who will be great at running the site and running the sims. I would run the structure and deal with owners and such. Anyone have a great one in mind?

Personally don't like dimebags idea. To me it is too confusing. I want the league to be setup just like MLB. We all know the rules and the structure so why make it harder? I personally would love a $1 per 1 million structure but if need be we could cut that down to .50 cents or even .25 cents per million if we had to.

Also, if we got this up and running EVERY decision would be vote based. How many sims we run per week, how many days per sim, etc. etc.

Not that it is near the same but I run a fantasy football league that is franchised and we are going into our 6th year. I am good at this kind of stuff and again I know if we got a good co-commish and the right owners this would be one of those sim leagues that would last forever.

I wish you luck buddy, I really want somebody to succeed at this.
Not sure what part of DimeBall is confusing. It's using the structure of MLB, and $1 is $1 million in-game.

But you would have to run it like an actual business, because it would be one. Voting on every single issue would quickly end the league.
What if the entire league votes on daily sims and you don't want to do that? Businesses need dictators.

If you have money involved in an OOTP league, owners aren't going to be playing for just fun and games anymore.
They will want to know the rules, and what you will do given any situation.
They will paying for a service -- that's what it is -- and if you don't deliver, I kid you not...you will get sued.
If your rules aren't long and confusing at first glance...you don't have enough rules.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by pbar25

I've been asking them for years to do this, but the chances are slim to none as the interest and passion is not there. It would have to be treated as a business, as that's what it would be.

It would be a huge money-maker for OOTP. An ever-expanding fictional online baseball universe fueled by an actual free market dictating everything. Gaming for profit.
And one of the final hurdles for OOTP would be complete: their financial system. You can't simulate baseball's financial model, you have to actually do it.

If they set it up so you could buy and sell existing teams or new franchises (with existing league owner approval) it would be an amazing thing. Get tired of your team? Sell it.

[pbar25]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

If they set it up so you could buy and sell existing teams or new franchises (with existing league owner approval) it would be an amazing thing. Get tired of your team? Sell it.

Exactly, that's one of the most exciting aspects.
Once long-term success was achieved, sell your franchise for a profit and move back to the bottom to take over a fixer-upper.

[hlywd61]

I have ran one in the past in Sammy Sosa High Heat Baseball for many seasons. It was pretty succesful. I am going to start another one when 12 comes out and gets patched a couple times. Generally I keep it simple. $10 a season per team. Winner takes all. If a cpu team wins it for whatever reason everyone puts in again and the season is worth double and so on. Keep it simple. I have a core group of owners of about 6-8 waiting for the game to come out. Were still debating on initial league size to start and all that. But it will be fun and it keeps the owners vested for the most part. If anyone is interested in getting on the list I would be more then happy to discuss getting in the league and league options to implement. I have very limited exp in running OOTP online. But I am commited to making the best of it and working out the initial kinks.

[Dargone]

Originally Posted by JJBranham17

I need a very good co-commish. Someone who will be great at running the site and running the sims. I would run the structure and deal with owners and such. Anyone have a great one in mind?

Personally don't like dimebags idea. To me it is too confusing. I want the league to be setup just like MLB. We all know the rules and the structure so why make it harder? I personally would love a $1 per 1 million structure but if need be we could cut that down to .50 cents or even .25 cents per million if we had to.

Also, if we got this up and running EVERY decision would be vote based. How many sims we run per week, how many days per sim, etc. etc.

Not that it is near the same but I run a fantasy football league that is franchised and we are going into our 6th year. I am good at this kind of stuff and again I know if we got a good co-commish and the right owners this would be one of those sim leagues that would last forever.

Yeah, you do. Mainly for the reason that there is no way I would trust anyone without enough "cred" to handle a pay-to-play league. Someone like Cooley I would trust. It would have to be an OG before many people would hop on I imagine...

[Cooleyvol]

I prefer the MoneyBall financial info to DimeBall's, but both would work, I guess. I don't recall it being as involved.


Luck to whomever attempts this.

[The Wolf]

If OOTP isn't interested, maybe some other company might be interested in doing it under a license.

I really think it would make money.

[pbar25]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

If OOTP isn't interested, maybe some other company might be interested in doing it under a license.

I really think it would make money.

It would make money if done correctly, and that's where I intend to steer DimeBall.
But it will take a monumental group effort, as the core owners will decide whether or not it can work.
The cost of an engine license is hefty, but OOTP does provide the leeway to where the league could be started without a license. If proved successful...then obviously the license would be required.

So I intend to start in a beta phase in order to establish core owners and work out any kinks. From there, if successful, the core owners will understand that it's 1919 all over again.... If the league succeeds, their franchise values increase and their potential winnings increase. The Commissioner's Office and the Owners will have the same interests: a fair game, a healthy game, an expanding league, and profit for all.

Most importantly, the Commissioner's Office works for the Baseball Owners. The Commissioner's Office would earn a contract from the Owners every X number of years based upon the Office's performance.

All of these places like whatif or other baseball sim websites, or any place that charges subscription based fees....well, those are not REAL baseball leagues (obviously).
The owners don't have a stake. If the league website finds 1,000 members, "the Owners" league didn't expand....the Commissioner's league expanded and the website will generate more profit. Owners come and go, and everything stays the same....which is only exciting for the website operators.

I want a real-breathing free market online baseball league...where Franchises are bought and sold, Owners profit, and all of them will seek to expand it due to their own self-interests....which will be fun & profit. Because that's baseball.
A combination of OOTP, horse racing, and an afternoon at the park.

[griffeyin98]

it needs to be ran on a smaller scale, especially at first, with the way it was set up for the one that didn't get enough GMs, where it's costing 15-20 a season and the way the payouts are setup, 40-50% of the teams were getting some money back, depending on who won awards and who made the playoffs.

Not sure why anyone really wants OOTP or some other company involved to run it, why not play for $20 each instead of playing for $40 and only getting back $20 of it? Whoever runs it is going to take 50% off the top.

[The Wolf]

Liability.

[bailey]

I like a lot of the concepts of Dimeball, but I'm turned off by
1) promotion/relegation
2) using historical players.
3) real money

Why, for example, would I want to buy into a 3rd division team, that might take two real life years to get to the 1st division?

Also, finding Babe Ruth playing for Cleveland just turns me off. I don't want to confuse real history with fake history.

Finally, I wonder if accepting and paying out real money would make this an illegal onling gambling activity.

[pbar25]

Originally Posted by bailey

I like a lot of the concepts of Dimeball, but I'm turned off by
1) promotion/relegation
2) using historical players.
3) real money

Why, for example, would I want to buy into a 3rd division team, that might take two real life years to get to the 1st division?

Also, finding Babe Ruth playing for Cleveland just turns me off. I don't want to confuse real history with fake history.

Finally, I wonder if accepting and paying out real money would make this an illegal onling gambling activity.

1) promotion/relegation

You might want to buy into a 3rd division team for a number of reasons:
a) 3rd Division would possess the cheapest Franchises available.
Therefore it would require the smallest in-game annual investment, which is ideal for a new Owner looking to try the league out.
(Because Franchise income levels and salary caps increase from 3rd to 1st, the asking price for a 1st Division Franchise would exceed a 3rd Division Franchise)
b) You could run a profitable Franchise within 3rd Division and never move up to 2nd Division. Generally speaking, the upper half of each division profits each season.
c) Starting at the bottom should be a lot of fun. The challenge of molding a Franchise into a winner, advancing from Tier to Tier, while generating real profit along the way? All while other online Owners stand in your way? OOTP has never been played at such a competitive level.
d) In the case you did not want to start within the bottom Tier, you could attempt to negotiate the purchase of a 1st or 2nd Division Franchise. Of course, you'd have to do a good job or you might become a 3rd Division Franchise.


2) using historical players.

The question of historical or fictional is a big one.
At the moment, I intend to run the 'beta' league with a random historical database. But I'm not married to the idea whatsoever, and have been leaning towards a fully fictional universe.

I do have concerns about simming a historical league for money.
a) No player should have a built-in advantage over another player. Example: If I have simmed 10,000 Historical sims with the OOTP engine, I have an advantage over somebody that has simmed only 10. I'd like to avoid 'ringers'.
b) Fictional Online OOTP Leagues, once out of the gate, are generally much healthier long-term then Historical Leagues.
c) A purely Fictional League allows for flawless expansion, eliminates database concerns, removes prior knowledge, and reduces draft pick posturing.


3) real money

An Online Baseball Sim League falls into the legal category of Online Fantasy Sports.
Within the United States, Online Fantasy Sports were declared businesses in 2006 within the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006.
Online Fantasy Sports were deemed games of skill, not gambling, therefore perfectly legal to invest towards.
Most likely, ESPN's fantasy sports division got that one passed.

[RoyEarl]

Well, for those taking names - I am into any fully fictional league money league...with stats only if possible, just to make it even more realistic...

[The Wolf]

I wouldn't play if there was relegation. That's not baseball.

[pbar25]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I wouldn't play if there was relegation. That's not baseball.

Understandable that would turn some people off.

But give it some thought. This wouldn't be the traditional English promotion/relegation style with points for wins.
It's still a 154 or 162 game season with traditional baseball results....100 wins seasons, 20 game winners, etc.
However, if you win your Tier you move up, and if you come in last place you move down.

It adds quite a bit of excitement, and it's ideal for expansion that could lead to something very special. Run some sims within a promotion/relegation format, and watch the battles to avoid relegation. A huge issue within online leagues is tanking for draft picks.....within promotion/relegation that's a no-go.

Imagine a successful money league with 3 Tiers of 10-16 teams each, set within a fictional universe.
Cooley's promotion/relegation league, along with the sister league(s) is a good example.

If successful the league could expand to 10 or even 30 tiers. As a new Tier is added, each current Tier would raise their salary cap level while the new Tier would be given the minimum salary cap so there is always easy entry for new Owners.
Therefore, as more Tiers are added the competition & prize levels increase throughout all Tiers.
It could expand to a point where the top tier was awarding thousands of dollars worth of prizes.


EDIT: And as far as it not being baseball, at what point does baseball stop being "baseball"?
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/spor...d-in-2012.html
If they think by just continually expanding their playoffs it will expand interest in their sport, they might want to consider promotion/relegation themselves.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by pbar25

It adds quite a bit of excitement, and it's ideal for expansion that could lead to something very special. Run some sims within a promotion/relegation format, and watch the battles to avoid relegation. A huge issue within online leagues is tanking for draft picks.....within promotion/relegation that's a no-go.

This just isn't true - it may have been years ago, but any league worth it's salt doesn't have this problem now-a-days.