League associations

[Cryomaniac]

This probably falls under the category of "wait for more info", but it's always worth asking anyway

Has anything been done towards implementing at least some of the ideas put forward by LGO and others in this area?

[thbroman]

This bears some connection to the question I raised in another thread about financials for minor leagues. If the framework for such associations is made flexible enough, perhaps we could mod an fantasy universe set in the era 1930 to 1970.

[texranger]

I'm also curious about this issue as well. I have a feeling, however, that this may be a very difficult thing to code (though I could be wrong).

If not associations, then maybe more sub-leagues? Of course this may not be easy either.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Nope, sorry... this would require a massive rewrite of the database structure, so this is not on the horizon.

[texranger]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Nope, sorry... this would require a massive rewrite of the database structure, so this is not on the horizon.

Yep, I figured it was a massive undertaking...but thanks for the reply. Maybe OOTP 16, 17 or 18?

[thbroman]

I see a real conflict here between what Markus believes is the desire on the part of many players for a richer contemporary sports environment, a la Football Manager, versus the wishes of people like me for a richer historical environment. I don't blame him for making the choices he does, but it's disappointing nonetheless.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Nope, sorry... this would require a massive rewrite of the database structure, so this is not on the horizon.

Thanks for the reply, that makes sense.

Would it be possible to do the most commonly requested part of it (that is, allowing champions of different leagues to play each other in a title game a-la the PCL / IL) in a different way that doesn't require as much work?

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Thanks for the reply, that makes sense.

Would it be possible to do the most commonly requested part of it (that is, allowing champions of different leagues to play each other in a title game a-la the PCL / IL) in a different way that doesn't require as much work?

Have you tried (assuming the PCL and IL are in different league files) saving each league as a template at season's end. Then create a new league and load both templates up. Hand schedule the game for the series yourself and play them out. I know its not EXACTLY the way you want it, but should that work, its minimal work.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

Have you tried (assuming the PCL and IL are in different league files) saving each league as a template at season's end. Then create a new league and load both templates up. Hand schedule the game for the series yourself and play them out. I know its not EXACTLY the way you want it, but should that work, its minimal work.

I haven't tried that no, but it might work. I'm sure someone has though, it would be interesting to see if it works.

The hand scheduling does work, but it only shows up in the history of one league.

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by thbroman

I see a real conflict here between what Markus believes is the desire on the part of many players for a richer contemporary sports environment, a la Football Manager, versus the wishes of people like me for a richer historical environment. I don't blame him for making the choices he does, but it's disappointing nonetheless.

I agree very much so. In fact, so much so that I'm very much "Meh" about OOTP12. But then again, he's never really done real history well. Just history seen through the eyes of modern ball.

[Cooleyvol]

Additionally, if you have the PCL and IL in the same league file, but obviously separate leagues, you could always hand schedule the games at season's end. It wouldn't be 'official', but should work.


I've often thought the 'export rosters' option should somehow be able to achieve this with teams in different league files, but have never tried it.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Thanks for the reply, that makes sense.

Would it be possible to do the most commonly requested part of it (that is, allowing champions of different leagues to play each other in a title game a-la the PCL / IL) in a different way that doesn't require as much work?

Sure, the new simulation module alows this, as it can handle X-game series as well as a set number of games betwwen two opponents. However, the result will not be stored in the history, as this are purely exhibition games...

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Sure, the new simulation module alows this, as it can handle X-game series as well as a set number of games betwwen two opponents. However, the result will not be stored in the history, as this are purely exhibition games...

Wasn't that always the case?

I was thinking more along the lines of maybe a change to the custom playoff system to allow it or something.

[thbroman]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

I agree very much so. In fact, so much so that I'm very much "Meh" about OOTP12. But then again, he's never really done real history well. Just history seen through the eyes of modern ball.

I think this is true, but we may have to face the fact that the work he would have to put into making the game work for our crowd would not be rewarded in sales. He said as much.

But Markus, here's an idea: when you reach the point of doing a substantial upgrade to the game engine, might you consider selling the rights to the about-to-be-outmoded engine to someone who would be interested in modding it in depth with an eye toward making it a richer historical game? Unfortunately I am not the person to take on this job, but there may be someone in the community who could and would be able to do it basically as a labor of love -- instead of just as labor -- and would recoup the cost of buying the rights in sales of the modded game.

Paradox Interactive has done this with their now-outmoded "Europa" engine, yielding a host of popular spin-offs of games that use it.

It's just a thought, but consider this: It would stop all the yapping by us historical grognards!

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by thbroman

I think this is true, but we may have to face the fact that the work he would have to put into making the game work for our crowd would not be rewarded in sales. He said as much.

But Markus, here's an idea: when you reach the point of doing a substantial upgrade to the game engine, might you consider selling the rights to the about-to-be-outmoded engine to someone who would be interested in modding it in depth with an eye toward making it a richer historical game? Unfortunately I am not the person to take on this job, but there may be someone in the community who could and would be able to do it basically as a labor of love -- instead of just as labor -- and would recoup the cost of buying the rights in sales of the modded game.

Paradox Interactive has done this with their now-outmoded "Europa" engine, yielding a host of popular spin-offs of games that use it.

It's just a thought, but consider this: It would stop all the yapping by us historical grognards!

Well, I once suggested that he should make the OOTP 2 engine open source lol.

[texranger]

Originally Posted by thbroman

But Markus, here's an idea: when you reach the point of doing a substantial upgrade to the game engine...

Interesting idea here...but I quoted the above part in particular.

When he does a database rewrite I think some of the features we want will be much easier to do (More leagues, Championships between multiple leagues etc etc, maybe even more in depth historical financial's--though this might be able to implemented without a database rewrite--I'm not sure though).

Of course re-writing the database might mean the first new version may have some stuff left out do to time constraints--much like he did on the last rework. But that's ok with me.

Just food for thought.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by texranger

Interesting idea here...but I quoted the above part in particular.

When he does a database rewrite I think some of the features we want will be much easier to do (More leagues, Championships between multiple leagues etc etc, maybe even more in depth historical financial's--though this might be able to implemented without a database rewrite--I'm not sure though).

Of course re-writing the database might mean the first new version may have some stuff left out do to time constraints--much like he did on the last rework. But that's ok with me.

Just food for thought.

The problem is that it's difficult to know when to do something like that, and it's a pretty big risk in the current economic climate.

[texranger]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

The problem is that it's difficult to know when to do something like that, and it's a pretty big risk in the current economic climate.

That's true...I figured if he decides to do it some day we might get the first version (or DB Version) with out some features we're used to...Kinda like he did with the first SI version.

Like you said though he would be taking a pretty big risk doing it.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by texranger

That's true...I figured if he decides to do it some day we might get the first version (or DB Version) with out some features we're used to...Kinda like he did with the first SI version.

Like you said though he would be taking a pretty big risk doing it.

Yeah, that's probably what would happen, although you could also do what is being done with the graphics engine for OOTP 13, that is, start working on it "on the side" a version or so early so that you can just slot it in when it's finished, even if it takes 3 versions.

[texranger]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Yeah, that's probably what would happen, although you could also do what is being done with the graphics engine for OOTP 13, that is, start working on it "on the side" a version or so early so that you can just slot it in when it's finished, even if it takes 3 versions.

That's true..so let me see that would be OOTP version 17 (Since we know some stuff for 13 and 14 already). LOL NO pressure Markus.