Starting a historical league

Pieguy62 · 01-10-2011, 04:01 PM

I want to start a historical league. I am planning on starting in 1891 because of Cy Young
This is my first time starting a league this early. What should i set all the options to?? Any recomendations please? Also i want it to be as realistic as possible (as in the rules and the way and when they change along with new teams)

Chicagofan76 · 01-10-2011, 04:50 PM

I am in 1893 of my historical league Cy Young is on the White Sox (not the cubs).
I have Free Agency turned off, which for me keeps salaries down since u wont have to ever resign players, their contracts carry over year to year.
I have 1 level of minors so bad players get some experience vs sitting on teh reserve roster.
Minor league FA's is on, so i can get rid of these guys after awhile.
I tried doing a 100% historical 1871-2010 league but it became too complicated trying to have the real NA and AA teams, so i let the game do what it does which brought the Chicago White Sox (not the cubs) in in 1882 along with several other AL teams that didnt exist til 1901.

I deleted all coaches minus trainers and set it up each team with real owners of that era ( when I could find them) and real MGRs even if they were playing on a different team. I have 2 Charlie Pabors managing now. 1 with the Cubs/Colts 5 time WS winners and the other with PHilly A's 8 time WS winners.
Oh I did the All star game and World Series from 1871 instead of from 1903?
Awards being renamed and HOF will start in 1900. Ross Barnes, Cap Anson, Bobby Matthews and 1 other Sp r in so far.

Free Agency for me will start either in 1950, so i can sign Mantle, MAris, Jackie etc or when it normally started. in 1973?
I used Gambo's 2007 seating chart and stadium photo file so all my pictures are accurate as r dimensions.
I used Gambo's facegen also. I use the last but not latest version of gambo/spritze DB.

Ii think I covered all my settings, oh I left all #'s setting alone.

Pieguy62 · 01-10-2011, 06:24 PM

thank you
how do i make it so that througthout history the uniforms and logos correctly change??

also- where is the free agency option so i can turn it off?

Biggio509 · 01-10-2011, 07:19 PM

Two things.

1. Unless you use a customized DB you will not have historical teams in 1893. The game can handle contraction but it does not release players when teams contract. Therefore, the stock DB is a quasi-historical setup that allows for only expansion in the 19th century. You can recreate the period with a custom DB but it requires work.

2. You will have to manually change uniforms as the league expands or when uniforms for the team change. There is no auto-change feature on uniforms.

I said 2 things but I will add three. It is hard to run earlier leagues with no free agency. The reserve clause era is hard to replicate in the game. If you have no free agency teams will run out of players because the game has no mechanism for signing players on another team. IRL, these teams often loaned and sold players, like Euro Football. There is no mechanism in the game for that. This is particularly difficult during the time when the AL is formed and pirating NL players was common.

Free agency helps with this but you still might have to go commissionaire fix problems like teams not having enough players occasionally. The rosters are very small in these periods and even a couple of injuries can cause teams to not have enough players. On top of that you don't have a big FA or any FA pool usually if you just import historical players. If you don't mind having fictional players alongside your real players it might be easier to handle. Prior to maybe the 1930's it takes some work to keep historical leagues running.

Biggio509 · 01-10-2011, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pieguy62

thank you
how do i make it so that througthout history the uniforms and logos correctly change??

also- where is the free agency option so i can turn it off?

See above before you decide to turn off FA. If you do I strongly suggest you create a AAA league and allow ghost players. Then you can set a 40 man roster close to the reserve limit. So if the reserve limit for the era was say 18 and regular rosters were 15 you can set the 40 man roster to 18. This will only allow you to protect the historical number of players. I would allow FA in the minors and set 1 year to FA eligibility. Like I said before the lack of Euro football like transfers (player sales) and loans makes it really hard for the engine to keep enough players on teams with no FA. You find some heavily overloaded and some below minimum. Free agency helps but you might still find teams with no SPs!

If you still want to do this league rules under league setup has the free agency options and the minor league free agency options.

Until OOTP allows for teams to purchase contracts of players from other teams the 19th and early 20th century is going to take some commissionaire manipulation to run right. I would really like to see independent minor leagues where majors could purchase contracts as need. Those who have gaps in the data were playing in the minors those years.

Chicagofan76 · 01-10-2011, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggio509

It is hard to run earlier leagues with no free agency. The reserve clause era is hard to replicate in the game. If you have no free agency teams will run out of players because the game has no mechanism for signing players on another team.

Not disagreeing with u, but around what time in history would the problem normally occur?

I am in 1893 and I check every1's rosters each yr to make sure that they have what they need. but i am not to 1973 yet either.

For 1871-1959 uniforms i recommend anything by No Pepper... do u know about Padresfan yet?
if not heres the link.
Main

I have basically every uniform file on there...some of the games pre 1900 uniforms u wont have such as the Washington Statesmen and Chicago Colts.. i just kept the Nationals and White Stockings uniforms in there.

Any ques or comments keep em coming along with the Killer B, myself and also 1998Yankees also play historical.

Biggio509 · 01-11-2011, 06:22 PM

I had the problem in a 1901 start league. I have also seen it happening from 1871 to the 1890's. However, I have used a custom DB that reflects real teams not the quasi-historical setup. If you are introducing real rookies some years you will have a lot more players for a team than historical due to lower team numbers and some you will have less.

The problem is less when you have contractions if you are running an accurate DB but sometimes I still some teams have all MRs and no SPs. Although the big expansion years like when the AA forms can cause some problems.

I think the problem comes up with the AL more acutely because the AL got a large number of players from the NL without free agency this can't happen so AL teams sometimes are left short with just the historical rookies and not the guys they got from NL rosters.

Chicagofan76 · 01-11-2011, 06:43 PM

I was aware of u mentioning a shortage of players in teh past and while some teams ddint have much beyond a 25 man roster in 1882 when teh game expands teh league by 8 teams i know the White Sox (not the cubs) had 25 man roster plus whatever draft picks i got in november.

Biggio509 · 01-11-2011, 07:23 PM

Note these comments assume the vanilla DB not the DBs by Spritze and Gambo that fix the problems I am addressing.

The problem is worse if you play an accurate historical league because not only are there more teams at times but it is 15 man roster that is typical. In most cases there are not many players left over after the 15 man rosters are made out.

I think OOTP's quasi-historical league fixes for the most part by having fewer teams with a smoother progression so you always have more than enough guys until you hit around 1901 when actual teams = OOTP teams and now you have just enough players for rosters and very few extra players.

My comments are based on the vanilla DB with the only tweak being simulating history in the 19th century. Spritze and Gambo have DBs that do not have these problems and have some of the guys who were going back and forth from the minors in early and during gap years. So which DB you use is important.

Dan Kalvoski · 01-12-2011, 07:07 PM

For several OOTP versions now, I have had good luck adjusting the Sabermetric player creation numbers for the minor leagues, to prevent the league running out of players.
The problem with running leagues without fictional players is that the historical record doesn't recognize that the worst MLB hitter is better than hundreds of thousands of minor-league hitters, amateurs and wannabes at the same position. So when your team gets an injury bug, there should always be somebody available. The trick is to generate players good enough to have a cup of coffee without them showing up as league leaders, or even regulars.
This method generates minor leaguers ranging from useless to barely adequate bench jockeys. The trick is that you have to do it in the right order:
1) Create your historical major league with no minors;
2) Add a minor league and change the player creation numbers before you go live with the minor league, otherwise your initial season player pool will include fictional guys good enough to play in the bigs, although the successive ones will not.
Reduce every modifier by 100 points, at least (they typically start between about .700 to .850). Reduce power and contact by 150 points. If you want to be sure none of them will even make it as a pinch-hitter, drop the modifiers by at least 150 to 200. For each successive layer of the minors, drop the modifiers by another 100 points.
3) Now start the league, and it will fill with usable players, but the best of them will be lucky to have a three-year career as a middle reliever on a bad team. Most are obvious rejects.
4) Before you play a day, sort the minors for speed guys. There will be a few track stars. Force-retire them or nerf their speed stats, or every MLB bench will have a designated sprinter on it, even if they can't hit.
5) Do the same for glove guys, particularly at fielding-first positions, or you will devalue the real good-glove, no-hit guys in the majors.
6) You have to prune out the speed guys and the glove wizards annually. Otherwise, it's one-and-done on the modifiers.

MadBum · 01-12-2011, 10:49 PM

I have a question about pre 1900s historical.

So you said that OOTP can't handle contraction. If I get it to 1901, will everything settle itself out or will I have to fix it by deleting teams?

Chicagofan76 · 01-13-2011, 06:44 AM

Mad, they way the game does the pre 1900 league is it wont contract any teams, but their wont be any to contract 90% pf the real teams that played in the NA & AA dont exist the way the game creates them. Rockford Rock Citys, New York Mutuals and several others. So the game creates teams and then brings in a ton of teams in 1882 that didnt exist until 1901.

so u wont have to contract any teams.

Sparrow · 01-13-2011, 11:20 AM

Once you get to 1901 I think you have to edit the historical ID for each team so it agrees with the database, but the game should correctly handle expansion at that point on its own. No teams (in the major leagues) fold after this point so deleting teams isn't an issue.

So yes, make the historical ID's match the database and everything will settle itself out.

Chicagofan76 · 01-13-2011, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Once you get to 1901 I think you have to edit the historical ID for each team so it agrees with the database, but the game should correctly handle expansion at that point on its own. No teams (in the major leagues) fold after this point so deleting teams isn't an issue.

So yes, make the historical ID's match the database and everything will settle itself out.

thought whose ever DB u were using took care of that? plus many teams still change their names after 1901 the cubs,yankees, dodgers to name a few wouldnt their 1d's not be to 2010 standards until after they settle that?

right now i am still stuck on 1893 and my other league my pc crashed in 1898.

Sparrow · 01-13-2011, 03:48 PM

I've been adding and deleting teams manually (only at 1883), so none of them have an historical ID, it is just blank. I'm assuming I will have to make that match in order for the game to auto expand and do name changes. I could be wrong, and perhaps it just goes by the actual team name, but I suspect the historical ID's must match.

Oh, and historical ID is different than franchise ID (I don't have the game in front of me so might be off on the names). The historical ID is constant throughout an entire franchises history.

Chicagofan76 · 01-13-2011, 04:02 PM

yeah if u r adding and subtracting teams the way pre 1900 baseball is then yes u r correct, but if u let the game make the changes then u dont have to change anything yourself.

01-10-2011, 04:01 PM	#1
Pieguy62 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 55	Starting a historical league I want to start a historical league. I am planning on starting in 1891 because of Cy Young This is my first time starting a league this early. What should i set all the options to?? Any recomendations please? Also i want it to be as realistic as possible (as in the rules and the way and when they change along with new teams)

01-10-2011, 06:24 PM	#3
Pieguy62 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 55	thank you how do i make it so that througthout history the uniforms and logos correctly change?? also- where is the free agency option so i can turn it off? Last edited by Pieguy62; 01-10-2011 at 06:56 PM.

01-12-2011, 07:07 PM	#10
Dan Kalvoski Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: In Red Sox Nation Posts: 131	For several OOTP versions now, I have had good luck adjusting the Sabermetric player creation numbers for the minor leagues, to prevent the league running out of players. The problem with running leagues without fictional players is that the historical record doesn't recognize that the worst MLB hitter is better than hundreds of thousands of minor-league hitters, amateurs and wannabes at the same position. So when your team gets an injury bug, there should always be somebody available. The trick is to generate players good enough to have a cup of coffee without them showing up as league leaders, or even regulars. This method generates minor leaguers ranging from useless to barely adequate bench jockeys. The trick is that you have to do it in the right order: 1) Create your historical major league with no minors; 2) Add a minor league and change the player creation numbers before you go live with the minor league, otherwise your initial season player pool will include fictional guys good enough to play in the bigs, although the successive ones will not. Reduce every modifier by 100 points, at least (they typically start between about .700 to .850). Reduce power and contact by 150 points. If you want to be sure none of them will even make it as a pinch-hitter, drop the modifiers by at least 150 to 200. For each successive layer of the minors, drop the modifiers by another 100 points. 3) Now start the league, and it will fill with usable players, but the best of them will be lucky to have a three-year career as a middle reliever on a bad team. Most are obvious rejects. 4) Before you play a day, sort the minors for speed guys. There will be a few track stars. Force-retire them or nerf their speed stats, or every MLB bench will have a designated sprinter on it, even if they can't hit. 5) Do the same for glove guys, particularly at fielding-first positions, or you will devalue the real good-glove, no-hit guys in the majors. 6) You have to prune out the speed guys and the glove wizards annually. Otherwise, it's one-and-done on the modifiers. __________________ Chief gag writer, Dr. Tongue's 3-D House of Clones dynasty.

01-10-2011, 04:50 PM	#2
Chicagofan76 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Diamond, IL Posts: 6,339 Infractions: 2/2 (3)	I am in 1893 of my historical league Cy Young is on the White Sox (not the cubs). I have Free Agency turned off, which for me keeps salaries down since u wont have to ever resign players, their contracts carry over year to year. I have 1 level of minors so bad players get some experience vs sitting on teh reserve roster. Minor league FA's is on, so i can get rid of these guys after awhile. I tried doing a 100% historical 1871-2010 league but it became too complicated trying to have the real NA and AA teams, so i let the game do what it does which brought the Chicago White Sox (not the cubs) in in 1882 along with several other AL teams that didnt exist til 1901. I deleted all coaches minus trainers and set it up each team with real owners of that era ( when I could find them) and real MGRs even if they were playing on a different team. I have 2 Charlie Pabors managing now. 1 with the Cubs/Colts 5 time WS winners and the other with PHilly A's 8 time WS winners. Oh I did the All star game and World Series from 1871 instead of from 1903? Awards being renamed and HOF will start in 1900. Ross Barnes, Cap Anson, Bobby Matthews and 1 other Sp r in so far. Free Agency for me will start either in 1950, so i can sign Mantle, MAris, Jackie etc or when it normally started. in 1973? I used Gambo's 2007 seating chart and stadium photo file so all my pictures are accurate as r dimensions. I used Gambo's facegen also. I use the last but not latest version of gambo/spritze DB. Ii think I covered all my settings, oh I left all #'s setting alone.

01-10-2011, 07:19 PM	#4
Biggio509 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,027	Two things. 1. Unless you use a customized DB you will not have historical teams in 1893. The game can handle contraction but it does not release players when teams contract. Therefore, the stock DB is a quasi-historical setup that allows for only expansion in the 19th century. You can recreate the period with a custom DB but it requires work. 2. You will have to manually change uniforms as the league expands or when uniforms for the team change. There is no auto-change feature on uniforms. I said 2 things but I will add three. It is hard to run earlier leagues with no free agency. The reserve clause era is hard to replicate in the game. If you have no free agency teams will run out of players because the game has no mechanism for signing players on another team. IRL, these teams often loaned and sold players, like Euro Football. There is no mechanism in the game for that. This is particularly difficult during the time when the AL is formed and pirating NL players was common. Free agency helps with this but you still might have to go commissionaire fix problems like teams not having enough players occasionally. The rosters are very small in these periods and even a couple of injuries can cause teams to not have enough players. On top of that you don't have a big FA or any FA pool usually if you just import historical players. If you don't mind having fictional players alongside your real players it might be easier to handle. Prior to maybe the 1930's it takes some work to keep historical leagues running.

01-11-2011, 06:22 PM	#7
Biggio509 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,027	I had the problem in a 1901 start league. I have also seen it happening from 1871 to the 1890's. However, I have used a custom DB that reflects real teams not the quasi-historical setup. If you are introducing real rookies some years you will have a lot more players for a team than historical due to lower team numbers and some you will have less. The problem is less when you have contractions if you are running an accurate DB but sometimes I still some teams have all MRs and no SPs. Although the big expansion years like when the AA forms can cause some problems. I think the problem comes up with the AL more acutely because the AL got a large number of players from the NL without free agency this can't happen so AL teams sometimes are left short with just the historical rookies and not the guys they got from NL rosters.

01-11-2011, 06:43 PM	#8
Chicagofan76 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Diamond, IL Posts: 6,339 Infractions: 2/2 (3)	I was aware of u mentioning a shortage of players in teh past and while some teams ddint have much beyond a 25 man roster in 1882 when teh game expands teh league by 8 teams i know the White Sox (not the cubs) had 25 man roster plus whatever draft picks i got in november.

01-11-2011, 07:23 PM	#9
Biggio509 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,027	Note these comments assume the vanilla DB not the DBs by Spritze and Gambo that fix the problems I am addressing. The problem is worse if you play an accurate historical league because not only are there more teams at times but it is 15 man roster that is typical. In most cases there are not many players left over after the 15 man rosters are made out. I think OOTP's quasi-historical league fixes for the most part by having fewer teams with a smoother progression so you always have more than enough guys until you hit around 1901 when actual teams = OOTP teams and now you have just enough players for rosters and very few extra players. My comments are based on the vanilla DB with the only tweak being simulating history in the 19th century. Spritze and Gambo have DBs that do not have these problems and have some of the guys who were going back and forth from the minors in early and during gap years. So which DB you use is important.

01-12-2011, 10:49 PM	#11
MadBum Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 266	I have a question about pre 1900s historical. So you said that OOTP can't handle contraction. If I get it to 1901, will everything settle itself out or will I have to fix it by deleting teams?

01-13-2011, 06:44 AM	#12
Chicagofan76 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Diamond, IL Posts: 6,339 Infractions: 2/2 (3)	Mad, they way the game does the pre 1900 league is it wont contract any teams, but their wont be any to contract 90% pf the real teams that played in the NA & AA dont exist the way the game creates them. Rockford Rock Citys, New York Mutuals and several others. So the game creates teams and then brings in a ton of teams in 1882 that didnt exist until 1901. so u wont have to contract any teams.

01-13-2011, 11:20 AM	#13
Sparrow All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 803	Once you get to 1901 I think you have to edit the historical ID for each team so it agrees with the database, but the game should correctly handle expansion at that point on its own. No teams (in the major leagues) fold after this point so deleting teams isn't an issue. So yes, make the historical ID's match the database and everything will settle itself out.

01-13-2011, 03:48 PM	#15
Sparrow All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 803	I've been adding and deleting teams manually (only at 1883), so none of them have an historical ID, it is just blank. I'm assuming I will have to make that match in order for the game to auto expand and do name changes. I could be wrong, and perhaps it just goes by the actual team name, but I suspect the historical ID's must match. Oh, and historical ID is different than franchise ID (I don't have the game in front of me so might be off on the names). The historical ID is constant throughout an entire franchises history.

01-13-2011, 04:02 PM	#16
Chicagofan76 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Diamond, IL Posts: 6,339 Infractions: 2/2 (3)	yeah if u r adding and subtracting teams the way pre 1900 baseball is then yes u r correct, but if u let the game make the changes then u dont have to change anything yourself.