The Final Straw--I've bought my last copy of OOTP

[wellsoliver]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

By the way, I've noticed twice now that, if negotiations seem to be stuck in the manner described above (meeting player's demands over and over, only to be rejected), a sudden and significant increase in the amount of money offered breaks the logjam.

I don't know if this was intentionally sarcastic, but it's a really funny comment nonetheless.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

By the way, I've noticed twice now that, if negotiations seem to be stuck in the manner described above (meeting player's demands over and over, only to be rejected), a sudden and significant increase in the amount of money offered breaks the logjam.

So does throwing in something else, like a bonus, no trade clause, or changing from team option to mutual or player option. Again, this is after you clicked "Meet Demand" and thought the player would jump at the deal, only to be refused.

[Savannah]

Mariners calling from the ACL.

Hello, Martin.

I'm continually frustrated by a game that moves forward before all issues are fixed. I can't count how many times we've had a "this is the last patch" post...


...and then we have another.

Competition would be good for the customers, as the OOTP coders don't fix issues before starting to address the "what do you want in the next version" issues - which should not be a priority.

Originally Posted by mking55

A new patch was just announced. Here is is with what's been fixed/added:



I've bought every version since V2. I have also worked in software development companies for close to 30 years (getting old is not so much fun). The companies I worked for had competition, but I hope the philosophy there was the standard in the software industry. BUGS GET FIXED FIRST. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. If we didn't fix them, the customers would look elsewhere for their software solutions.

With OOTP there is not a boatload of competition so their arrogance and disregard for their customer base doesn't seem to be hurting sales. The silence of those people who see these bugs and don't say anything doesn't help. I've noticed there are more people complaining about legacy bugs but all we can do about it is not buy the game.

Regarding this latest patch I will mention 2 things not there that I feel are more important than "baseball card features". Bugs vs. Baseball Cards. The only reason I can think of why Baseball Cards trump bugs is that they're easier to do and there are plenty of sales regardless of what you throw to the customers. However, that's no excuse.

1. When offering a free agent a contract and I meet demand, I will often get an email telling me my offer is way off base. I go back into the free agent and he's asking for what I just gave him. If the plan is to drive the gameplayer crazy, it's working. Otherwise it's a legacy bug that is being ignored.

2. When I go into my pitching lineup screen (for example) and I set it up to see pitchers and their stats, I get them. Then I look elsewhere and when I return to the pitching lineup screen who knows what's there. Maybe it's pitcher's batting averages, maybe it's batters pitching stats, but I can guarantee you it won't be pitchers and their stats.

When I look at free agents and I subset to catchers and then I go and try to trade for one (for example), when I go back to the free agent screen I have to setup the subset for catchers again.

That's not a bug, that's just plain user unfriendly. These are not huge things but they are annoying things that kill the enjoyment of the game. But if you think baseball cards is what your customer base is clamouring for instead of a friendly, low bug game than this isn't the game for me.

I've been patient and I'm not writing here about the other things I've noticed. I just bring these up as things that have been around a while and should have been fixed before some of these other things.

This is not professional on your part, but if you can get away with it, then that's not nice but it's reality. The respect I used to have for you and what you were attempting was quite high. You've lost it all.

Does it matter if you lose one customer? Probably not. But if other disgruntled customers also stop buying you might have a problem.

You want to play with the big boys and be a software company, then act like a big boy and stop ignoring the bugs.

Martin

[bleachercreature]

It's been a problem here for a long time that moderators only want those who drink the koolaid to post. If you disagree or have issues with the game, you're not welcome here. It really is sad that is the way they have chosen to run this comapany.

Originally Posted by mking55

Steve,

I don't believe I said "money-grubbing profiteers with the integrity of plaque-carrying sewer rats". I don't believe I even implied it.

I am entitled to my opinion which as a moderator you should not take objection to it, as it's only an opinion. My actions are my own and are based on my long experience with this franchise.

There are certain rules of software creation in my world, and that's the fact that all bugs which affect the product (i.e. free agent repeated offers) get fixed first. Period. Any deviation from this is not acceptable.

I have not mentioned AI or anything else. I've stuck by this game hoping for AI improvements, and long existing bugs to be fixed. I'm sorry, but in the professional world where I live there is no excuse for letting bugs hang around for years.

If that's okay with you and others, then that's okay with me. I'm certainly not going to imply you're a "sewer rat" because you don't agree with me. In fact, if the game works for you and these things don't bother you, then you should keep on playing. These things bother me so after purchasing every version since V2 I should stop purchasing.

My God man, it's a freaking game. Who cares who stays and who goes? Why insult someone whose opinion based on their experience is different than yours?

I've had a few interactions from you and I must say that you always seemed a reasonable sort. This is beneath you.

A board should be an open give and take of opinions. As long as no one starts a thread by being beyond rude, anything they say is their opinion and in this country, and your country, everyone is entitled to your opinion. Lots of people get slammed on these boards for their opinions. It's unfortunate.

To have you, a moderator, attack someone's opinion sets a bad example. You should be above this.

Martin

[StyxNCa]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

I'm not an economist, or in business so I don't know what is best for the company, and I'm not trying to comment on that.

One thing I would like to comment on is that there appears to be the idea that vocal = majority. I don't believe this to be necessarily the case.

I think we should remember, when doing any poll, or assessing the customer base in anyway, that any sample on a forum is inherently biased, and does not necessarily reflect the desires, wants, level of satisfaction, or complaints of the customer base.

I believe satisfied customers are often quieter than dissatisfied customers and, in my experience, people prone to vocalizing complaints are often more vocal than people who are content.

I don't mean to detract from, or belittle your opinion. I just wish people would refrain from citing forum polls or discussions as representative of the customer base as a whole.

Well, what it comes down to when all is said and done, the only thing that matters is what I want.

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by bleachercreature

It's been a problem here for a long time that moderators only want those who drink the koolaid to post. If you disagree or have issues with the game, you're not welcome here. It really is sad that is the way they have chosen to run this comapany.

This is absolute nonsense. Anyone who has been on these forums over the years knows that I have been a very vocal critic of OOTP Developments in the past. You can have a look at some of my early postings as perfect examples.

Not once did any moderator ever warn me, threaten me, or otherwise do anything to discourage me from expressing my opinions. Some forum members have posted their disagreement or challenged my criticism, and many others joined me in agreement. But no one ever interfered with that free and open exchange of ideas.

In fact, OOTP Developments has always responded constructively to my posts and suggestions, and it has implemented several improvements and changes over the years based on my feedback. How could that possibly happen if criticism is not welcome here?

The mere fact that a moderator disagrees with a posting does not even remotely suggest that those who have issues with the game are not welcome here.

There have been tens of thousands of posts complaining about OOTP Baseball and criticizing its flaws, bugs, and other imperfections. How could any of that ever happen if moderators and the game developers have created the sort of environment that you suggest? How is this thread still open then?

[Antonin]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

The mere fact that a moderator disagrees with a posting does not even remotely suggest that those who have issues with the game are not welcome here.

There have been tens of thousands of posts complaining about OOTP Baseball and criticizing its flaws, bugs, and other imperfections. How could any of that ever happen if moderators and the game developers have created the sort of environment that you suggest?...

+1

I, too, have been a member here for a very long time, and I have never had the sense that the moderators or the developer wanted to muzzle unfavorable comments.

[robc]

It is some of the forum members who attack people when the game is criticized, not the moderators. I have never had a moderator interfere with my posts. Also, when I have sent an idea or question to Markus he has almost always replied in a helpful way.

[shawa666]

Toasting in an epic bread

[tomwolf2008]

I just wondered why EVERYTIME some controversial posts is about to died down then somebody would come up and stir the post again?

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by bleachercreature

It's been a problem here for a long time that moderators only want those who drink the koolaid to post. If you disagree or have issues with the game, you're not welcome here. It really is sad that is the way they have chosen to run this comapany.

This character was appropriately addressed in this thread:
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...stom-game.html

There, he refers to a "core group of koolaid drinkres." The flavor he drinks appears to interfere with his typing or spelling capability.

[84Hammy]

Originally Posted by robc

It is some of the forum members who attack people when the game is criticized, not the moderators. I have never had a moderator interfere with my posts. Also, when I have sent an idea or question to Markus he has almost always replied in a helpful way.

I agree with you robc and I think that there is a lot to be said about the tone in which posts are made. A post may point out a negative without being a negative post.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by tomwolf2008

I just wondered why EVERYTIME some controversial posts is about to died down then somebody would come up and stir the post again?

Because it's fun, tom. Some people have nothing better to do than make outrageous statements, cloaked and shielded by anonymity. That way, they feel significant. I just wonder if they would have the balls to call me a "koolaid drinkre" to my face.

It's sad, really. However, they get what they deserve. The thing is, the rest of us have to waste time dealing with it even if it's just reading crap.

Obviously, it often goes beyond just reading. I don't blame the people who care for this game, and especially the principals of OOTP themselves, for reacting to unfair nonsense but the best response to these people would be a lack of one.

[tomwolf2008]

BTW, since this post doesn't seem to be dead yet, I would want to express my own opinion.

I feel a lot of people didn't think of "are there baseball sim games work better than OOTP does"? This is a serious question. There are considerable amount people complained this game is too easy (which is absolutely nonsense to me, btw), ok then, what ARE THE GAMES THAT ARE HARD? I have a Mogul dynasty going on and in Play by Play mode I already won 120+ games for four straight year, so there! (No offense to Mogul, that's a great game as well) It's pretty safe to say I hadn't done that in OOTP yet. (I did got 120+ win once when all my starting pitcher suddenly all turned to superhuman, but never four straight.) A lot of people complained about trades, then again, in Mogul you could trade off aging veteran to got a top 1, 2 pick rookie and these rookies will quickly flourished to become big stars, how more realistic is that? (Again, no offense to mogul, I played Mogul longer than OOTP and I like Mogul as well)

Of course OOTP has problem, and of courese people will get frustrated. (I'm frustrated for playoff format for quite a while), but we all need to have more understanding towards the developers. All games has their strengths and weaknesses, and as players we all want to see some particular issues fixed. But you need to understand try to fix things taking time as well, we shouldn't expected to see all issues been miraculousy fixed in one version. Be patient, if you always played a game to try to find new flaw out of it instead of enjoy the game, then I suggest you shouldn't play it in the first place.

[tomwolf2008]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Because it's fun, tom. Some people have nothing better to do than make outrageous statements, cloaked and shielded by anonymity. That way, they feel significant. I just wonder if they would have the balls to call me a "koolaid drinkre" to my face.

It's sad, really. However, they get what they deserve. The thing is, the rest of us have to waste time dealing with it even if it's just reading crap.

Obviously, it often goes beyond just reading. I don't blame the people who care for this game, and especially the principals of OOTP themselves, for reacting to unfair nonsense but the best response to these people would be a lack of one.

True, but seriously, before last night's post, the last post in this thread was in October...

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by tomwolf2008

True, but seriously, before last night's post, the last post in this thread was in October...

Maybe it took him six months to author his reply (based on last post date before today).

[StyxNCa]

Originally Posted by SteveP

It continues to amaze me that Markus and Andreas go on producing this game year after year. They aren't getting rich doing it, and the business may never be more than marginal. The game is getting so complex that supporting it is a huge, almost overwhelming task. And they have to absorb things like this along the way. I'm sure I am not the only one wondering which version will be the last.

So, to anyone reading this thread who is tempted to post your own version of "I am through giving money to you money-grubbing profiteers with the integrity of plague-carrying sewer rats", please ... please, do the rest of us a favor and don't.

Oh come on. Look at them as entertainment. I know I crack up everytime I see new posts like the OP. People just need to stop taking them serious.

[StyxNCa]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Because it's fun, tom. Some people have nothing better to do than make outrageous statements, cloaked and shielded by anonymity. That way, they feel significant. I just wonder if they would have the balls to call me a "koolaid drinkre" to my face.

Based on my experience with people in chat rooms and forums over the past 15 years I can tell you the answer to your remark is simply....no they wouldn't.

Given the number of times I've given out my address and phone number and NEVER heard from them it is safe to assume the anonymity brings out the best in them. My guess is those people are afraid of their own shadow.

I did learn over time though that when people react to those people they are just fanning the flame. That is exactly what they want. I found that by ignoring them totally they will go away.

[Jetzons]

I think people need to put this in financial perspective... I am sure the moron that started this blog watches sports (CABLE BILL, look up CBS/NCAA March Madness contract, you are paying for it whether you watch sports or not), goes to movies (Large expense there), possible goes out to eat. Everything costs money and a whole lot for small attention span of entertainment. But to only spend $40 dollars on hours of fun, dam that is a cool cost benefit in my book. But to argue that you have bought your last copy based on a few minor issues on what the general (several computer game rating companys consider very good) public thinks is a great product and we have direct contact with the developers is redonkuless... I bet you can't have direct contact with Black Ops programmers for any issues?

I have been a Larussa and HH3 player for years and have been using OOTP for a long time. I enjoy the forum and rarely make any comments, but this was high on the stupid meter.

Since I do rarely comment, I would like to thank all the graphics guys. You all do amazing job making logos and unis... Also the general people that answer questions. My questions are usually answered by just searching the blogs. And to Markus and the dev/test guys..

I think there will always be issues.. Hell I can't stand this time of year because of Bowl games.. and no college playoffs, but does that have me turning off the National Championship game.. nope I'll keep dreaming of the perfect world and adapting to one I am in... You should do the same in the OOTP world. Play it for what it is....

[CONN CHRIS]

mking55

All Star Reserve


Last Activity: Today 09:19 AM

Maybe it wasn't the final straw after all!