Nolan Ryan

targy · 11-29-2010, 07:34 AM

Playing a historical league started in 1965. So I go to the History and check the pitchers with the most K's for their career do far and Nolan Ryan is not on the list so I go check out his profile and he never made it to the Major Leagues. I use the AI to manage all the other teams and I guess in my league Ryan was never a great pitcher....

robc · 11-29-2010, 12:44 PM

Is recalc on or off?

Is OOTP player development on or off?

griffeyin98 · 11-29-2010, 02:45 PM

Your league must be pretty deep for a guy with those lifetime AAA numbers to never get called up

hefalumps · 11-29-2010, 02:59 PM

I started a historical league in 1970, and while Ryan was definitely in the big leagues in my league, he definitely wasn't the legend he was in real life. The big knock against him was his control - he was always walking too many guys and not going deep into games. He had a few years where he was near the tops in strikeouts, but the W/L records and ERA were unimpressive.

I don't do recalc - I like to let the player development engine take over so I don't know if a guy like Ryan is going to be a sure thing, a dud, or something in between.

In my league, Ryan stayed with the Mets until 1978 when he was traded to the Angels after starting the season 0-3. He went 13-6 for the Angels to finish out the '78 season, but that was pretty much it for him. He went 8-12 in 1979 with 134 walks in 190 innings and then bounced around between three different teams in 1980. He finished out his career with a couple of seasons in the minors before retiring at the end of the 1982 season.

He finished with career ML numbers of 136-140, 3.50 ERA, 1.43 WHIP, 1502 walks against 2341 strikeouts. His strikeouts are 8th best on the career leaderboard. Sam McDowell is #1 with 4440 K's between 1961 and 1985.

glenmere14 · 11-29-2010, 06:46 PM

Ryan never fares well in my historical replays either. It is a little disappointing as I am a big fan.

I always like to cite the fact that Ryan pitched 600 more innings lifetime than Tom Seaver and gave up 50 less hits.

Not saying Ryan was as good as Seaver, just look at the walks - but I would argue that he was the least hittable pitcher of all time

targy · 11-29-2010, 08:02 PM

I am using 3 year recalc..But before OOTP11 Ryan usually had a great career.

Exodor · 11-29-2010, 11:22 PM

I started my league in 1969. Ryan did fairly well for my Royals

No recalc with development on

He's my league's all-time leader in Ks.

Overkill · 11-29-2010, 11:59 PM

On a related topic, maybe it's just me or the databases I use (usually something from Gambo), but I find that Babe Ruth NEVER develops. I see what you're saying about Ryan, but I just thought I'd add my own little comment here and say that I've experienced something similar. Did your Ryan take any hits to his potential ratings by any chance? Or have his actual ratings just never developed? The actual ratings not developing seem to be my problem with Mr. Ruth.

Chicagofan76 · 11-30-2010, 01:21 AM

I just had Ryan drafted into my ABF league, based on the career avg i use for all historical players Ryan wont be a 300 game winner in my league 103 BB i believe is his MLB avg but at 213 k thats gotts be as high or higher then what i created for myself or for Satchel Paige.

He was the 5th pick overall drafted by Texas Rangers (irony is a mofo)
hasnt signed yet.

Peregrine · 12-06-2010, 03:41 PM

In a historical league I did, Ryan got busted for illegal drugs in his first season with the Mets - after that he was seriously disliked by the fans, became angrier and angrier, and ended up as a mediocre pitcher serving time with several big league teams.

Assos · 12-06-2010, 03:48 PM

Remember, the game only sees numbers, not names.

BIG17EASY · 12-06-2010, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenmere14

Ryan never fares well in my historical replays either. It is a little disappointing as I am a big fan.

I always like to cite the fact that Ryan pitched 600 more innings lifetime than Tom Seaver and gave up 50 less hits.

Not saying Ryan was as good as Seaver, just look at the walks - but I would argue that he was the least hittable pitcher of all time

I think it's widely accepted that he was the least hittable pitcher of all-time. Seven no-hitters speak for themselves.

On a side note in the Seaver-Ryan comparison, Ryan walked more than twice as many hitters than Seaver.

Questdog · 12-06-2010, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I think it's widely accepted that he was the least hittable pitcher of all-time. Seven no-hitters speak for themselves.

On a side note in the Seaver-Ryan comparison, Ryan walked more than twice as many hitters than Seaver.

I would be the least hittable pitcher of all time, if given the opportunity. That's right, me, Questdog....

I still wouldn't be very good, however, since I wouldn't put the ball within 10 feet of the plate......

The Wolf · 12-06-2010, 11:05 PM

You can't hit what you can't reach.

DrSatan · 12-09-2010, 05:23 AM

I notice the same thing with Ryan. The problem is his control potential is in the toilet. I usually go in and edit it a little to fix the problem. I do this every season when I run historicals. For the most part I like the default ratings for players, but there are a few that cause the player to have a crappy career. I notice similar things with rickey henderson and lou brock. They're low power ratings usually have them playing a platoon role vs a starting role. If they do start its usually only for a few years. The AI seems to value power more than contact, so if they cant maintain a contact rating in the 70+/100 range they will eventually lose their job to someone with a higher power rating. This is just an observation. I have no data to back it up, other then I've seen it enough that i started editing ratings. I've also had to raise contact ratings for some power hitters (McGwire), just so their career will last longer.

Chicagofan76 · 12-09-2010, 05:58 AM

so u play a fictional league not a historical 1. The only players i have edited for a historical league were self created players.
1 of the things i like about historical leagues is that the players dont do exactly how they did in real life.

I create a ton of historical players for my ABF league. Nolan Ryan does suck overall but he is only in his 2nd sn. Rickey Henderson hit .303 19 hr 55rbi 162 r 94 sb on my Chicago Fire in his 2nd sn. Satchel Paige is 1 of the premier strikeout pitchers but he is on a crappy team. Josh Gibson suffered a CEI but before that he was a contender for mvp. Walter Johnson so far is good as a rookie. I have a guy that created an did Big Mac's career avg for his stats.
so far he is a .193 6 hr hitter in 83 career ab's (2 sns)
Harold Baines sucks so far, still stuck at AAA because def he isnt that good and i dont use DH.

DrSatan · 12-09-2010, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

so u play a fictional league not a historical 1. The only players i have edited for a historical league were self created players.
1 of the things i like about historical leagues is that the players dont do exactly how they did in real life.

I create a ton of historical players for my ABF league. Nolan Ryan does suck overall but he is only in his 2nd sn. Rickey Henderson hit .303 19 hr 55rbi 162 r 94 sb on my Chicago Fire in his 2nd sn. Satchel Paige is 1 of the premier strikeout pitchers but he is on a crappy team. Josh Gibson suffered a CEI but before that he was a contender for mvp. Walter Johnson so far is good as a rookie. I have a guy that created an did Big Mac's career avg for his stats.
so far he is a .193 6 hr hitter in 83 career ab's (2 sns)
Harold Baines sucks so far, still stuck at AAA because def he isnt that good and i dont use DH.

I'm assuming this comment was in response to mine. If not disregard. I play historical sims, but I go over the draft class each year and check the potentials. I only make changes on players who have consistently not produced due to the default settings of their potential ratings. I have no issue with players not performing to or exceeding their real life statistics. I just don't like when they don't perform due to a default rating vs a ratings hit. I don't actually create players, or anything like that. In previous versions I would have to manually change players like sam rice and babe ruth to position players. In the current version the AI recognizes these guys and changes them on their own, which is awesome.

Chicagofan76 · 12-09-2010, 08:51 AM

to each their own....i just dont bother modifying historical players. Cy Young sucks in 11 in the 2 pre 1900 historical league i have done he was either at .500 or below .500 with less then 200 wins in each.....when 1900 hit it just wasnt called the Cy Young Award thats all. In another i had Babe Ruth on the Sox in Old Comiskey he never hit more the 40 hr in a season and had perhaps 350 for his career.

I guess when I play historical I am not looking for a repeat of what has happened before like most ppl are looking for. I am looking for my adaptation on the past, and hope that Shoeless Joe is the best or Ty Cobb or Bonds minus steroids.

SkeptiSys · 12-09-2010, 03:21 PM

I also have not been able to recreate Nolan Ryan's hit and K rates in OOTP 11. I suspect the hit and k ranges for pitchers are not wide enough to encompass Ryan's unique outputs. I hope this will be fixed in OOTP 12.

11-29-2010, 08:02 PM	#6
targy All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 1,152	I am using 3 year recalc..But before OOTP11 Ryan usually had a great career. __________________ www.emerge180.com

11-29-2010, 11:59 PM	#8
Overkill Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 195	On a related topic, maybe it's just me or the databases I use (usually something from Gambo), but I find that Babe Ruth NEVER develops. I see what you're saying about Ryan, but I just thought I'd add my own little comment here and say that I've experienced something similar. Did your Ryan take any hits to his potential ratings by any chance? Or have his actual ratings just never developed? The actual ratings not developing seem to be my problem with Mr. Ruth. __________________ Check out my blog. I've had opinions for a long time, but never really voiced them so I thought I'd give it a shot to see if other people agree. If you read, please feel free to comment. MLB Theorem

12-09-2010, 03:21 PM	#19
SkeptiSys Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 44	Nolan Ryan I also have not been able to recreate Nolan Ryan's hit and K rates in OOTP 11. I suspect the hit and k ranges for pitchers are not wide enough to encompass Ryan's unique outputs. I hope this will be fixed in OOTP 12.

11-29-2010, 07:34 AM	#1
targy All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 1,152	Nolan Ryan Playing a historical league started in 1965. So I go to the History and check the pitchers with the most K's for their career do far and Nolan Ryan is not on the list so I go check out his profile and he never made it to the Major Leagues. I use the AI to manage all the other teams and I guess in my league Ryan was never a great pitcher.... Attached Images __________________ www.emerge180.com

11-29-2010, 12:44 PM	#2
robc Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,095	Is recalc on or off? Is OOTP player development on or off?

11-29-2010, 02:45 PM	#3
griffeyin98 Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 311	Your league must be pretty deep for a guy with those lifetime AAA numbers to never get called up

11-29-2010, 02:59 PM	#4
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,389	I started a historical league in 1970, and while Ryan was definitely in the big leagues in my league, he definitely wasn't the legend he was in real life. The big knock against him was his control - he was always walking too many guys and not going deep into games. He had a few years where he was near the tops in strikeouts, but the W/L records and ERA were unimpressive. I don't do recalc - I like to let the player development engine take over so I don't know if a guy like Ryan is going to be a sure thing, a dud, or something in between. In my league, Ryan stayed with the Mets until 1978 when he was traded to the Angels after starting the season 0-3. He went 13-6 for the Angels to finish out the '78 season, but that was pretty much it for him. He went 8-12 in 1979 with 134 walks in 190 innings and then bounced around between three different teams in 1980. He finished out his career with a couple of seasons in the minors before retiring at the end of the 1982 season. He finished with career ML numbers of 136-140, 3.50 ERA, 1.43 WHIP, 1502 walks against 2341 strikeouts. His strikeouts are 8th best on the career leaderboard. Sam McDowell is #1 with 4440 K's between 1961 and 1985.

11-29-2010, 06:46 PM	#5
glenmere14 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 258	Ryan never fares well in my historical replays either. It is a little disappointing as I am a big fan. I always like to cite the fact that Ryan pitched 600 more innings lifetime than Tom Seaver and gave up 50 less hits. Not saying Ryan was as good as Seaver, just look at the walks - but I would argue that he was the least hittable pitcher of all time

11-29-2010, 11:22 PM	#7
Exodor Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 481	I started my league in 1969. Ryan did fairly well for my Royals No recalc with development on He's my league's all-time leader in Ks.

11-30-2010, 01:21 AM	#9
Chicagofan76 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Diamond, IL Posts: 6,339 Infractions: 2/2 (3)	I just had Ryan drafted into my ABF league, based on the career avg i use for all historical players Ryan wont be a 300 game winner in my league 103 BB i believe is his MLB avg but at 213 k thats gotts be as high or higher then what i created for myself or for Satchel Paige. He was the 5th pick overall drafted by Texas Rangers (irony is a mofo) hasnt signed yet.

12-06-2010, 03:41 PM	#10
Peregrine All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Cary, North Carolina Posts: 635	In a historical league I did, Ryan got busted for illegal drugs in his first season with the Mets - after that he was seriously disliked by the fans, became angrier and angrier, and ended up as a mediocre pitcher serving time with several big league teams.

12-06-2010, 03:48 PM	#11
Assos All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Just on the fair side of the foul pole! Posts: 1,772	Remember, the game only sees numbers, not names.

12-09-2010, 05:23 AM	#15
DrSatan All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 623	I notice the same thing with Ryan. The problem is his control potential is in the toilet. I usually go in and edit it a little to fix the problem. I do this every season when I run historicals. For the most part I like the default ratings for players, but there are a few that cause the player to have a crappy career. I notice similar things with rickey henderson and lou brock. They're low power ratings usually have them playing a platoon role vs a starting role. If they do start its usually only for a few years. The AI seems to value power more than contact, so if they cant maintain a contact rating in the 70+/100 range they will eventually lose their job to someone with a higher power rating. This is just an observation. I have no data to back it up, other then I've seen it enough that i started editing ratings. I've also had to raise contact ratings for some power hitters (McGwire), just so their career will last longer.

12-09-2010, 05:58 AM	#16
Chicagofan76 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Diamond, IL Posts: 6,339 Infractions: 2/2 (3)	so u play a fictional league not a historical 1. The only players i have edited for a historical league were self created players. 1 of the things i like about historical leagues is that the players dont do exactly how they did in real life. I create a ton of historical players for my ABF league. Nolan Ryan does suck overall but he is only in his 2nd sn. Rickey Henderson hit .303 19 hr 55rbi 162 r 94 sb on my Chicago Fire in his 2nd sn. Satchel Paige is 1 of the premier strikeout pitchers but he is on a crappy team. Josh Gibson suffered a CEI but before that he was a contender for mvp. Walter Johnson so far is good as a rookie. I have a guy that created an did Big Mac's career avg for his stats. so far he is a .193 6 hr hitter in 83 career ab's (2 sns) Harold Baines sucks so far, still stuck at AAA because def he isnt that good and i dont use DH.

12-09-2010, 08:51 AM	#18
Chicagofan76 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Diamond, IL Posts: 6,339 Infractions: 2/2 (3)	to each their own....i just dont bother modifying historical players. Cy Young sucks in 11 in the 2 pre 1900 historical league i have done he was either at .500 or below .500 with less then 200 wins in each.....when 1900 hit it just wasnt called the Cy Young Award thats all. In another i had Babe Ruth on the Sox in Old Comiskey he never hit more the 40 hr in a season and had perhaps 350 for his career. I guess when I play historical I am not looking for a repeat of what has happened before like most ppl are looking for. I am looking for my adaptation on the past, and hope that Shoeless Joe is the best or Ty Cobb or Bonds minus steroids.