DynamicMLB - The Grand-Daddy of them all! Includes REAL Financials - Page 2

STL10WC · 10-14-2010, 03:40 PM

What do you mean by dispersal draft? Also, you mentioned that it would take faith, interest and committment - but what can prompt that from owners more than their own hard-earned cash?!

I think it can be done.

pbar25 · 10-14-2010, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanivr

Very interesting concept. The only thing that puts me off is the fact that the in-game financial model is somewhat weak, so basing real money off it could lead to trouble.

I'd be very interested in joining as I'm working on my own league which is very similar, and would certainly love to see real money in action before I start & complete mine....but I do completely agree with the above statement.

I'm currently building a stand alone website which will have it's own finances designed for real money. Through testing I don't see the in-game model working out as desired, and that is why I abandoned it.

#1 In-game contract demands may supersede what people are willing to pay a superstar, or any player for that matter. Many could end up sitting out seasons and never get signed.
GMs that are willing to pay them, may simply be refused by the player as a team he will not consider....causing major frustrations.
#2 Great coaches will most likely end up sitting out as well, refusing to coach in the minors if requested.
#3 Players and coaches refusing to sign with certain teams will create an environment which could become impossible for lower teams to ever compete.
#4 Blind bidding in-game will force GMs to pay much more Real Money then an open forum bidding situation. This creates a higher market then should exist.

As stated by GhillieSuited, I believe your costs are WAY too high. $100 every 2 months is going to create unsustainable turnover.

The biggest issue I see is the first few seasons.......mistakes and errors and kinks will have to be worked out........when people have real money on the line during what will be essentially testing.......they will get upset.
My plan is to literally pay my Alpha Testers, by financing the first 5-10 seasons....so they can play with real money and test, but not have to put anything out there until it runs perfect.

JWay · 10-14-2010, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STL10WC

What do you mean by dispersal draft? Also, you mentioned that it would take faith, interest and committment - but what can prompt that from owners more than their own hard-earned cash?!

I think it can be done.

Faith in the commissioner. This could end up being quite a bit of money. Money causes even good people to do funny things. Not saying it always does, but when playing over the internet which is a great place for anonymous people to come and go as they people, the risk increases.

Faith in the owners. The commissioner could be a saint. But when money is involved the owners may become shady. The commissioner should intervene very little, but there may be times where he/she may need to intervene quite often. There's more than one way to collude. If you find 30 people who don't awesome.

Faith in the commitment. If I pick a team and have to rebuild. I need to know its worth while. In a free league you're only out so much time if a commissioner bails. In this league i you spend $50 over 3-4 seasons of rebuilding and you team is prime to make something happen and the league folds, well that person may get refund of their current investment but their losses are gone for nothing. Goes both ways. If 2-3 teams remain open, that's less money in the pot. How do you prevent constant overturn of ownership? You need to find owners who are committed, and creative incentive to stay committed.

Finally the most important.

Faith in the software. Running my own OOTP league has shown me that the software has its issues. If the game goes corrupt in my league, we simply start over. If this league corrupts, what's fair? What if an error occurs? Exports don't go through. Website goes down. I have a great sim, but we have to restore to a back up an then have a poor sim. Tons of potential issues that my league and others I participate in, deal with, but brush to the side as "side effects" one has to deal with. Well in a pay league, where money is involved. These side effects become 10x the issue.

I wish you all the best, but I'm not sure you really know what you're getting yourself into. Even still. If everyone has a shot at winning/losing money it dellutes the pot, why invest $100 to win $20?

Also what happens if all the teams start making lots of money, bringing in lots of fans, and there's all the sudden more money in the game than there is to pay out? This is possible as OOTP does not work on a single sum of money and redistributes it. Leagues get richer and poorer.

Faith is very necessary.

My two suggestions:

Distribute players. Initial draft, or auction draft.

Control finances outside of the game.

Hundreds of ways to do this, but it requires more work, more time, but reduces the OOTP random influence, increases an even playing field, and reduces outside luck to just how the ball bounces in the game.

WillieMaysHayes · 10-14-2010, 05:08 PM

An additional suggestion...

Run a league with a modifier of $10M = $1M for three seasons. Create equal finances up front for each team (park capacity, fan loyalty, media, etc..). Run an inaugural draft. If you're anxious to really start going, auto-run the inaugural. See what happens at the end of the three years and log it each year. Do this all with human owners of course.

At the end of three seasons, see what happens. If it's good results, kick up the modifier to $1M = $1, run a new inauagural draft and make it the "real deal".

Please understand I'm not trying to destroy your idea or break it down to pieces with criticism. I think you've done an excellent job already...but there's so many variables in this and it involves enough of a substantial amount of money that it needs to be tested. And I don't honestly believe there is a test set out there that you could find that would provide you honest results. The more I think about this, the less you can use a simmed CPU-ran season as a test. You also cannot use human-manned online OOTP leagues because the sole purpose in your league is to MAKE $$$$. That's not a focus of any league I have ever seen, and it would create managers to make transactions/decisions that they normally would not do (i.e. eating salary for prospects wouldn't be a slam dunk move with your own money etc.). You've also alluded to it in your previous posts - how likely is it that someone is going to pay a $30M/year guy for 7 years? I would say almost no one. If the owner who did sign him has the player crash and burn, he's likely to leave the league and saddle someone else with the contract. You also have the scenario that no one signs any of the big FA's or they would only be willing to sign a guy to $30M for 2-3 years instead of 7.....man there are so many variables.

Also - what happens if an owner needs to leave mid-season? God forbid it happens, but you never know.

pbar25 · 10-14-2010, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillieMaysHayes

An additional suggestion...

Run a league with a modifier of $10M = $1M for three seasons. Create equal finances up front for each team (park capacity, fan loyalty, media, etc..). Run an inaugural draft. If you're anxious to really start going, auto-run the inaugural. See what happens at the end of the three years and log it each year. Do this all with human owners of course.

At the end of three seasons, see what happens. If it's good results, kick up the modifier to $1M = $1, run a new inauagural draft and make it the "real deal".

Please understand I'm not trying to destroy your idea or break it down to pieces with criticism. I think you've done an excellent job already...but there's so many variables in this and it involves enough of a substantial amount of money that it needs to be tested. And I don't honestly believe there is a test set out there that you could find that would provide you honest results. The more I think about this, the less you can use a simmed CPU-ran season as a test. You also cannot use human-manned online OOTP leagues because the sole purpose in your league is to MAKE $$$$. That's not a focus of any league I have ever seen, and it would create managers to make transactions/decisions that they normally would not do (i.e. eating salary for prospects wouldn't be a slam dunk move with your own money etc.). You've also alluded to it in your previous posts - how likely is it that someone is going to pay a $30M/year guy for 7 years? I would say almost no one. If the owner who did sign him has the player crash and burn, he's likely to leave the league and saddle someone else with the contract. You also have the scenario that no one signs any of the big FA's or they would only be willing to sign a guy to $30M for 2-3 years instead of 7.....man there are so many variables.

Also - what happens if an owner needs to leave mid-season? God forbid it happens, but you never know.

In order to eliminate that variable I would suggest setting it up where ALL contracts are paid in full upon player signings into the league pot.
It will result in vastly different yearly rewards based on who signs what player, but completely eliminates the possibility of owners leaving due to bad contracts, since they are paid up front in full upon signing a player.

Their yearly salary total would then simply apply towards a salary cap each season - set at $20 or $50 or whatever it is, to prevent bigger spenders from absolutely dominating.
It also would never saddle any new owner with money to be paid in the future......the only money you'd spend would be your own choosing.
Since one of the biggest problems would be a franchise lying in ruin upon an incompetent owner leaving, and never being able to recover within your scenario if a new person took over.

For instance, god forbid.....somebody decided to destroy the league because they were immature and upset about some ruling that went against them.........they'd sign all of their players to absurd contracts......then leave. What happens?

Display the league revenue real-time on the website, so there are no questions or shenanigans. When using real money, all contracts must be paid in full upon signing; otherwise I'd be shocked if it could withstand players gaming the system.

JWay · 10-14-2010, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbar25

In order to eliminate that variable I would suggest setting it up where ALL contracts are paid in full upon player signings into the league pot.
It will result in vastly different yearly rewards based on who signs what player, but completely eliminates the possibility of owners leaving due to bad contracts, since they are paid up front in full upon signing a player.

Their yearly salary total would then simply apply towards a salary cap each season - set at $20 or $50 or whatever it is, to prevent bigger spenders from absolutely dominating.
It also would never saddle any new owner with money to be paid in the future......the only money you'd spend would be your own choosing.
Since one of the biggest problems would be a franchise lying in ruin upon an incompetent owner leaving, and never being able to recover within your scenario if a new person took over.

For instance, god forbid.....somebody decided to destroy the league because they were immature and upset about some ruling that went against them.........they'd sign all of their players to absurd contracts......then leave. What happens?

Display the league revenue real-time on the website, so there are no questions or shenanigans. When using real money, all contracts must be paid in full upon signing; otherwise I'd be shocked if it could withstand players gaming the system.

You are exactly right on. That way if someone wants to jump ship, they could "sell" the team to someone else.

griffeyin98 · 10-14-2010, 06:19 PM

I like the idea as stated before, but agree with the "why invest $175 to earn $20" So far with the kind of money you have set up, I don't see any reason anyone would take over a team like Boston, NY or Phillie knowing they aren't always going to make money.

I also disagree that reducing the modifier wouldn't help, this is a community where people get A LOT for free from the current group of commishes. If I'm looking to sign Rich Harden, It's a definite factor whether I want to pay him $12.45 for his 3 yr 124.5 million deal. Maybe I'm just in a different tax bracket, but $15 a season with 3 seasons a year gets costly if you're team isn't making money.

Maybe make it something where to purchase teams you have to pay an upfront fee based on market size, so the Yanks would still cost more than the Padres, and then you start paying the payroll after that.

I think contraction and an initial draft would be the only way to pull it off. If you can get 30 gms to pay the fees you have set up, you're the best commish in ootpland. I've got a great league with IMO the best website in the community and only 24 teams and we have openings almost every offseason.

GhillieSuited · 10-14-2010, 09:59 PM

Could the following be a possible solution/substitution?

Before Season One Begins
When the league begins all players are dumped into a draft pool. No players are on any teams with empty minor leagues

The owners who pays the most for their team get the #1 - #5 draft picks (Five teams that cost $12 to purchase)
The owners who pays the second most for their team get the #6 - #10 draft picks (Five teams that cost $10 to purchase)
The owners who pay the third most for their team get the #11 - #15 draft picks (Five teams that cost $8 to purchase)
The owners who pay the fourth most for their team get the #16 - #20 draft picks (Five teams that cost $6 to purchase)
The owners who pay the fifth most for their team get the #21 - #25 draft picks (Five teams that cost $4 to purchase)
The owners who pay the sixth most for their team get the #26 – #30 draft picks (Five teams that cost $2 to purchase)

Pretend the top five teams, the $12 teams are New York, Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago & Texas. In round one the draft order would be New York gets the #1 overall selection, Philly #2, Boston #3, Chicago #4, and Texas #5. Round two Philly would get the #1 pick, Boston #2, Chicago #3, Texas #4 and New York #5. Round #3 Boston would get the #1 pick, Chicago #2, Texas #3, New York #4 and Philly #5.
Pretend the second five teams (the $10 teams) are Atlanta, KC, Detroit, Colorado, SF. In round one the 6th pick would be Atlanta, 7th KC, 8th Detroit, 9th Colorado & 10th SF. In round two KC picks 6th, Detroit 7th, Colorado 8th, SF 9th and Atlanta 10th.
This would then be duplicated for the $8 teams, the $6 teams and so on.

Season One Begins
Each division has a $12 team, a $10 team, an $8 team and a $6 team. Of course this will not even out if a 30 team league is used as OOTP can’t run an odd schedule. So this league would either have to be a 32 team league (16 teams per league) or 36 team league (18 per league) or 14 in the American League and 16 in the National a 64 team league ETC ETC ETC. The point is try to even out the divisions within the league so that they are as close as possible to being even with regards to initial cost.

Season one is played and ends money is paid out. How? Does the World Series champion win $100, runner up $50 etc? Does the MVP get $5, CY Young winner $5, ROY $5? Do first and second place teams win $$$? This is all TBD by the commissioner

After Season One Ends & Before Season Two Begins

Each owner pays .15 cents per victory in season one
A 100 win season would cost an owner $15.00
A 75 win season would cost an owner $11.25
A 50 win season would cost an owner $7.50

If my math is correct in a 30 team league $364.50 per season would be collected. 30 teams play 162 games = 4,860 games played per season. Divide those games by only one winner per game 2,430 wins multiplied by .15 cents per victory equals $364.50.
$364.50 would then become the prize pool.

If an owner leaves the league the new owner would have to pay what the team won the season before; (.15 cents per victory). (Example) Therefore in season one if the Yankees were to win 100 games, the owner quits, a new owner is to take over the Yankees he/she would have to pay $15 to do so.

I know this is not what STL10WC suggested but there is no way that people are going to pay $100 or $200 to own a team. There are just too many variables with OOTP. The injuries are just so very unrealistic and the way those injuries affect ratings is even more unrealistic. The financials in OOTP are just as unreliable. I think we have all been in leagues where there is a winning team for a number of seasons yet market size shrinks, TV revenue shrinks, etc etc etc. I wish it were not the case but those are the facts with OOTP. I just don’t see how a league can be based on OOTP financials , with the amount of money STL10WC is suggesting. I mean there are owners who have been in leagues for numerous seasons and quit because the league they have been in is upgrading to the newest version of OOTP either because they can’t afford the $39.99 or don’t want to spend it. Sadly trying to find 30 people to spend the type of money STL10WC is suggesting is just not going to happen.

I realize my suggestion for a pay league is not going to solve the issue of owners signing bad contracts however there could be a provision made in the rules that when an owner leaves the league the league brass (commissioner, presidents, officials) or by league wide vote, could go through the team, look at the contracts and if any are deemed to be poor/too expensive/unfair to the potential new owner the contract could be voided and the player put into the free agent pool.

I love the idea of a pay league and don’t want this to die a premature death. Maybe my suggestion is something that STL10WC would consider? Maybe others? Maybe someone else has another idea or ideas? I would like a pay to play league to get off the ground and would defiantly be a part of one but not for the price of $200+ per season or $600+ per calendar year. Would a pay to play type scenario that I suggested drum up enough interest to have a 38, 48 or 64 team league? Could the league collect $500 or $600 per year if there were more teams and if more people got involved? Is there a greater chance that 30 or 40 or 50 or more people in the OOTP world would be willing to pay .15 cents per victory? While the league structure would be different would it, could it, be just as exciting and challenging for owners who may have to pay $15.00 for a 100 win season but could win $50 or $100 upon winning the World Series?

****The Dollar amounts, cost per victory, pay outs etc are all just suggestions, starting points, a reference. I was just spitballing, just putting numbers behind the idea. They can be changed.****

Thoughts, ideas, suggestions?

griffeyin98 · 10-14-2010, 11:29 PM

I don't think paying for wins would attract the attention, I think there has to be monetary items that make people think harder when signing a guy, and don't sign guys "because I have the salary room"

I think this type league if it's going to get off the ground has to be 24 teams and be 24 good gms who get it going and can keep it active and running long enough to show if the structure is correct or not.

The structure I suggested ends with money about the same as yours with the exception being teams with high payrolls (178.5 million payroll = $17.85) but with an inaugural draft, I think most payrolls are going to be under $150 million. which would net between $240-$360 with each team paying $10-$15 per season.

But then I wouldn't want the responsibility of running a league like this with the amount of work it'll take from the commish, without being able to compete

pbar25 · 10-14-2010, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by griffeyin98

But then I wouldn't want the responsibility of running a league like this with the amount of work it'll take from the commish, without being able to compete

I completely agree with this. For a money league to work, the commish has to have a significant financial interest and get paid for his work; otherwise it could fold at any time. In order to provide the service, which it would be, and to deliver up to expectations -- which would be high as consumers would be paying for entertainment expecting no mistakes -- the commish would need to have a stake within the league. Frankly, $50 per season isn't enough. In this scenario if the league lasted 50 sim years, $150,000+ would be distributed, and $2500 kept. That's not enough for that type of responsibility, workload, & expectations. And that's not something you could change down the road, it would have to be agreed upon from the get-go and never altered -- otherwise big problems arise.

GhillieSuited · 10-15-2010, 09:33 AM

If it is going to cost me about $20 per season to play I’m in!
I’ll take the Yankees right now

And for that price I would not care if the commissioner owned a team

JWay · 10-15-2010, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhillieSuited

If it is going to cost me about $20 per season to play I’m in!
I’ll take the Yankees right now

And for that price I would not care if the commissioner owned a team

I agree with this. If you run a league with statslab, and use development tracker, i would be really had to cheat the game. I would enjoy live sims, and with those two things out of the way (not being able to sim, then resim, then resim) the commish could easily play.

I would also see paying a stipend to any assistant or media manager, web manager, who make the league even more immerse.

Also say you start with a $32/season rate. Buy in for two seasons and it costs you $62, 3 seasons $90, 4 seasons $115, 5 seasons $140. Or some discount scale. First $25 goes into the prize pool. Every dollar past that gets divided by league staffers.

The numbers could use tons of work. But if you find the right group of committed people, I could see it being a very epic league.

REDSOXRULE2010 · 10-15-2010, 08:11 PM

I would love to join this league sounds like a great idea. Please email me at Jakeg12488@aol.com

Cooleyvol · 10-16-2010, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhillieSuited

Could the following be a possible solution/substitution?

Before Season One Begins
When the league begins all players are dumped into a draft pool. No players are on any teams with empty minor leagues

The owners who pays the most for their team get the #1 - #5 draft picks (Five teams that cost $12 to purchase)
The owners who pays the second most for their team get the #6 - #10 draft picks (Five teams that cost $10 to purchase)
The owners who pay the third most for their team get the #11 - #15 draft picks (Five teams that cost $8 to purchase)
The owners who pay the fourth most for their team get the #16 - #20 draft picks (Five teams that cost $6 to purchase)
The owners who pay the fifth most for their team get the #21 - #25 draft picks (Five teams that cost $4 to purchase)
The owners who pay the sixth most for their team get the #26 – #30 draft picks (Five teams that cost $2 to purchase)

Pretend the top five teams, the $12 teams are New York, Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago & Texas. In round one the draft order would be New York gets the #1 overall selection, Philly #2, Boston #3, Chicago #4, and Texas #5. Round two Philly would get the #1 pick, Boston #2, Chicago #3, Texas #4 and New York #5. Round #3 Boston would get the #1 pick, Chicago #2, Texas #3, New York #4 and Philly #5.
Pretend the second five teams (the $10 teams) are Atlanta, KC, Detroit, Colorado, SF. In round one the 6th pick would be Atlanta, 7th KC, 8th Detroit, 9th Colorado & 10th SF. In round two KC picks 6th, Detroit 7th, Colorado 8th, SF 9th and Atlanta 10th.
This would then be duplicated for the $8 teams, the $6 teams and so on.

Season One Begins
Each division has a $12 team, a $10 team, an $8 team and a $6 team. Of course this will not even out if a 30 team league is used as OOTP can’t run an odd schedule. So this league would either have to be a 32 team league (16 teams per league) or 36 team league (18 per league) or 14 in the American League and 16 in the National a 64 team league ETC ETC ETC. The point is try to even out the divisions within the league so that they are as close as possible to being even with regards to initial cost.

Season one is played and ends money is paid out. How? Does the World Series champion win $100, runner up $50 etc? Does the MVP get $5, CY Young winner $5, ROY $5? Do first and second place teams win $$$? This is all TBD by the commissioner

After Season One Ends & Before Season Two Begins

Each owner pays .15 cents per victory in season one
A 100 win season would cost an owner $15.00
A 75 win season would cost an owner $11.25
A 50 win season would cost an owner $7.50

If my math is correct in a 30 team league $364.50 per season would be collected. 30 teams play 162 games = 4,860 games played per season. Divide those games by only one winner per game 2,430 wins multiplied by .15 cents per victory equals $364.50.
$364.50 would then become the prize pool.

If an owner leaves the league the new owner would have to pay what the team won the season before; (.15 cents per victory). (Example) Therefore in season one if the Yankees were to win 100 games, the owner quits, a new owner is to take over the Yankees he/she would have to pay $15 to do so.

I know this is not what STL10WC suggested but there is no way that people are going to pay $100 or $200 to own a team. There are just too many variables with OOTP. The injuries are just so very unrealistic and the way those injuries affect ratings is even more unrealistic. The financials in OOTP are just as unreliable. I think we have all been in leagues where there is a winning team for a number of seasons yet market size shrinks, TV revenue shrinks, etc etc etc. I wish it were not the case but those are the facts with OOTP. I just don’t see how a league can be based on OOTP financials , with the amount of money STL10WC is suggesting. I mean there are owners who have been in leagues for numerous seasons and quit because the league they have been in is upgrading to the newest version of OOTP either because they can’t afford the $39.99 or don’t want to spend it. Sadly trying to find 30 people to spend the type of money STL10WC is suggesting is just not going to happen.

I realize my suggestion for a pay league is not going to solve the issue of owners signing bad contracts however there could be a provision made in the rules that when an owner leaves the league the league brass (commissioner, presidents, officials) or by league wide vote, could go through the team, look at the contracts and if any are deemed to be poor/too expensive/unfair to the potential new owner the contract could be voided and the player put into the free agent pool.

I love the idea of a pay league and don’t want this to die a premature death. Maybe my suggestion is something that STL10WC would consider? Maybe others? Maybe someone else has another idea or ideas? I would like a pay to play league to get off the ground and would defiantly be a part of one but not for the price of $200+ per season or $600+ per calendar year. Would a pay to play type scenario that I suggested drum up enough interest to have a 38, 48 or 64 team league? Could the league collect $500 or $600 per year if there were more teams and if more people got involved? Is there a greater chance that 30 or 40 or 50 or more people in the OOTP world would be willing to pay .15 cents per victory? While the league structure would be different would it, could it, be just as exciting and challenging for owners who may have to pay $15.00 for a 100 win season but could win $50 or $100 upon winning the World Series?

****The Dollar amounts, cost per victory, pay outs etc are all just suggestions, starting points, a reference. I was just spitballing, just putting numbers behind the idea. They can be changed.****

Thoughts, ideas, suggestions?

This is the most solid idea I've seen on this subject since it began to be knocked around years ago.........and something I'd have no problem be a part of even with the commish owning a team.

JWay · 10-16-2010, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

This is the most solid idea I've seen on this subject since it began to be knocked around years ago.........and something I'd have no problem be a part of even with the commish owning a team.

agreed.

GhillieSuited · 10-16-2010, 01:57 PM

Well with OOTP heavy hitters such as Cooley & JWay in favor of this idea maybe it will get off the ground?

I would have no issues with being the commissioner or even co-commissioner of a league like this. I have zero/no/none web design experience so I would need someone who knows about that to run that part of the league.

I’d be willing to pay for the web site as I would rather have an advertising free site with no pop-ups.

In the event that there is enough interest from the OOTP world to get this league up and running I will be working on the rules today. If STL10WC wants to run this league I have no issues stepping aside and letting him take over the reins. If someone else wants to run this league I again will be willing to step aside and just be an owner.

Maybe the person who runs the web site/design/updates etc gets his/her team for free? Meaning he/she does not have to pay .15 cents per victory?

Maybe the person who is the commissioner of the league gets his/her team for free? Meaning he/she does not have to pay .15 cents per victory? (If I am the commissioner I have no issues paying the .15 cents per victory)

Like I said, I will be working on the rules now/today just in case this takes off and there is enough interest.

How much interest is out there?

Thoughts? Questions? Ideas?

pbar25 · 10-16-2010, 02:34 PM

I think it's a very cool idea and could be a lot of fun.
I don't see it being a good idea to have a commissioner own a team in a money league however. Too many variables & questions.
All live sims increase the likelihood of missed sims and the process taking up too much time... leaving less room for the commissioner to do sims at varied times, etc and on his own schedule.....increasing the chance it wears the person down over time.

While your idea is entertaining and fun, I'm after taking part in a league seeking to create a living-breathing major league free market where player contracts are thought out extensively, and typical OOTP gaming of a league system is impossible due to the money.....tanking, shady trades, etc, etc
It's an awesome idea though.

JWay · 10-16-2010, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhillieSuited

Well with OOTP heavy hitters such as Cooley & JWay in favor of this idea maybe it will get off the ground?

I would have no issues with being the commissioner or even co-commissioner of a league like this. I have zero/no/none web design experience so I would need someone who knows about that to run that part of the league.

I’d be willing to pay for the web site as I would rather have an advertising free site with no pop-ups.

In the event that there is enough interest from the OOTP world to get this league up and running I will be working on the rules today. If STL10WC wants to run this league I have no issues stepping aside and letting him take over the reins. If someone else wants to run this league I again will be willing to step aside and just be an owner.

Maybe the person who runs the web site/design/updates etc gets his/her team for free? Meaning he/she does not have to pay .15 cents per victory?

Maybe the person who is the commissioner of the league gets his/her team for free? Meaning he/she does not have to pay .15 cents per victory? (If I am the commissioner I have no issues paying the .15 cents per victory)

Like I said, I will be working on the rules now/today just in case this takes off and there is enough interest.

How much interest is out there?

Thoughts? Questions? Ideas?

I have the webspace, etc for free. And I'm okay at making pages. I'd donate it to the cause, but I'm not sure I'd participate any further than just being an owner...my wife would crush my balls. The CBU is already too much "away time" haha.

STL10WC · 10-21-2010, 06:54 PM

Just a quick update. This "idea" is not dead. Far from it. We are working on getting something together that would not only be affordable but blow every other online league out of the water.

This is ground-breaking stuff. If you are interested in this format, stay tuned, we will be coming out with a model soon...

TommyJ · 10-21-2010, 08:59 PM

I think like alot of others I think a format for a "Money" league has been needed for some time. It just adds another level of competition to the game. I think the Commish could have plenty at stake as far as monetary gains without being an owner. I could see him taking a portion from the total pool (not amounting to much more than owning an actual team) which would balance things IMO.

I think the idea of keeping teams with different Market Sizes, Loyalties, Media Contracts etc, it creates the feeling of really building a team IMO. I also like the Idea of larger payroll teams costing more ($12, $10, $8, $6 etc). Spacing them evenly throughout the league would also be beneficial.

One thing I don't think people have really thought about is how the league should be configured, as in Historical or Current. I think both pose a set of issues. Modern Leagues come up with issues as far as player creation, historicals with re-calcs etc. It almost makes a Fictional League seem like the best choice for this type of league. Simming 5-8 years for statistics and then allowing people to draft. Just trying to add anything I can to something I think is a fantastic idea.

10-14-2010, 05:08 PM	#24
WillieMaysHayes Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 143	An additional suggestion... Run a league with a modifier of $10M = $1M for three seasons. Create equal finances up front for each team (park capacity, fan loyalty, media, etc..). Run an inaugural draft. If you're anxious to really start going, auto-run the inaugural. See what happens at the end of the three years and log it each year. Do this all with human owners of course. At the end of three seasons, see what happens. If it's good results, kick up the modifier to $1M = $1, run a new inauagural draft and make it the "real deal". Please understand I'm not trying to destroy your idea or break it down to pieces with criticism. I think you've done an excellent job already...but there's so many variables in this and it involves enough of a substantial amount of money that it needs to be tested. And I don't honestly believe there is a test set out there that you could find that would provide you honest results. The more I think about this, the less you can use a simmed CPU-ran season as a test. You also cannot use human-manned online OOTP leagues because the sole purpose in your league is to MAKE $$$$. That's not a focus of any league I have ever seen, and it would create managers to make transactions/decisions that they normally would not do (i.e. eating salary for prospects wouldn't be a slam dunk move with your own money etc.). You've also alluded to it in your previous posts - how likely is it that someone is going to pay a $30M/year guy for 7 years? I would say almost no one. If the owner who did sign him has the player crash and burn, he's likely to leave the league and saddle someone else with the contract. You also have the scenario that no one signs any of the big FA's or they would only be willing to sign a guy to $30M for 2-3 years instead of 7.....man there are so many variables. Also - what happens if an owner needs to leave mid-season? God forbid it happens, but you never know. Last edited by WillieMaysHayes; 10-14-2010 at 05:09 PM.

10-14-2010, 09:59 PM	#28
GhillieSuited Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 29	Could the following be a possible solution/substitution? Before Season One Begins When the league begins all players are dumped into a draft pool. No players are on any teams with empty minor leagues The owners who pays the most for their team get the #1 - #5 draft picks (Five teams that cost $12 to purchase) The owners who pays the second most for their team get the #6 - #10 draft picks (Five teams that cost $10 to purchase) The owners who pay the third most for their team get the #11 - #15 draft picks (Five teams that cost $8 to purchase) The owners who pay the fourth most for their team get the #16 - #20 draft picks (Five teams that cost $6 to purchase) The owners who pay the fifth most for their team get the #21 - #25 draft picks (Five teams that cost $4 to purchase) The owners who pay the sixth most for their team get the #26 – #30 draft picks (Five teams that cost $2 to purchase) Pretend the top five teams, the $12 teams are New York, Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago & Texas. In round one the draft order would be New York gets the #1 overall selection, Philly #2, Boston #3, Chicago #4, and Texas #5. Round two Philly would get the #1 pick, Boston #2, Chicago #3, Texas #4 and New York #5. Round #3 Boston would get the #1 pick, Chicago #2, Texas #3, New York #4 and Philly #5. Pretend the second five teams (the $10 teams) are Atlanta, KC, Detroit, Colorado, SF. In round one the 6th pick would be Atlanta, 7th KC, 8th Detroit, 9th Colorado & 10th SF. In round two KC picks 6th, Detroit 7th, Colorado 8th, SF 9th and Atlanta 10th. This would then be duplicated for the $8 teams, the $6 teams and so on. Season One Begins Each division has a $12 team, a $10 team, an $8 team and a $6 team. Of course this will not even out if a 30 team league is used as OOTP can’t run an odd schedule. So this league would either have to be a 32 team league (16 teams per league) or 36 team league (18 per league) or 14 in the American League and 16 in the National a 64 team league ETC ETC ETC. The point is try to even out the divisions within the league so that they are as close as possible to being even with regards to initial cost. Season one is played and ends money is paid out. How? Does the World Series champion win $100, runner up $50 etc? Does the MVP get $5, CY Young winner $5, ROY $5? Do first and second place teams win $$$? This is all TBD by the commissioner After Season One Ends & Before Season Two Begins Each owner pays .15 cents per victory in season one A 100 win season would cost an owner $15.00 A 75 win season would cost an owner $11.25 A 50 win season would cost an owner $7.50 If my math is correct in a 30 team league $364.50 per season would be collected. 30 teams play 162 games = 4,860 games played per season. Divide those games by only one winner per game 2,430 wins multiplied by .15 cents per victory equals $364.50. $364.50 would then become the prize pool. If an owner leaves the league the new owner would have to pay what the team won the season before; (.15 cents per victory). (Example) Therefore in season one if the Yankees were to win 100 games, the owner quits, a new owner is to take over the Yankees he/she would have to pay $15 to do so. I know this is not what STL10WC suggested but there is no way that people are going to pay $100 or $200 to own a team. There are just too many variables with OOTP. The injuries are just so very unrealistic and the way those injuries affect ratings is even more unrealistic. The financials in OOTP are just as unreliable. I think we have all been in leagues where there is a winning team for a number of seasons yet market size shrinks, TV revenue shrinks, etc etc etc. I wish it were not the case but those are the facts with OOTP. I just don’t see how a league can be based on OOTP financials , with the amount of money STL10WC is suggesting. I mean there are owners who have been in leagues for numerous seasons and quit because the league they have been in is upgrading to the newest version of OOTP either because they can’t afford the $39.99 or don’t want to spend it. Sadly trying to find 30 people to spend the type of money STL10WC is suggesting is just not going to happen. I realize my suggestion for a pay league is not going to solve the issue of owners signing bad contracts however there could be a provision made in the rules that when an owner leaves the league the league brass (commissioner, presidents, officials) or by league wide vote, could go through the team, look at the contracts and if any are deemed to be poor/too expensive/unfair to the potential new owner the contract could be voided and the player put into the free agent pool. I love the idea of a pay league and don’t want this to die a premature death. Maybe my suggestion is something that STL10WC would consider? Maybe others? Maybe someone else has another idea or ideas? I would like a pay to play league to get off the ground and would defiantly be a part of one but not for the price of $200+ per season or $600+ per calendar year. Would a pay to play type scenario that I suggested drum up enough interest to have a 38, 48 or 64 team league? Could the league collect $500 or $600 per year if there were more teams and if more people got involved? Is there a greater chance that 30 or 40 or 50 or more people in the OOTP world would be willing to pay .15 cents per victory? While the league structure would be different would it, could it, be just as exciting and challenging for owners who may have to pay $15.00 for a 100 win season but could win $50 or $100 upon winning the World Series? **The Dollar amounts, cost per victory, pay outs etc are all just suggestions, starting points, a reference. I was just spitballing, just putting numbers behind the idea. They can be changed.** Thoughts, ideas, suggestions? Last edited by GhillieSuited; 10-14-2010 at 10:03 PM. Reason: Forgot post

10-15-2010, 08:11 PM	#33
REDSOXRULE2010 New User Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2	Joining I would love to join this league sounds like a great idea. Please email me at Jakeg12488@aol.com

10-16-2010, 02:34 PM	#37
pbar25 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 343	I think it's a very cool idea and could be a lot of fun. I don't see it being a good idea to have a commissioner own a team in a money league however. Too many variables & questions. All live sims increase the likelihood of missed sims and the process taking up too much time... leaving less room for the commissioner to do sims at varied times, etc and on his own schedule.....increasing the chance it wears the person down over time. While your idea is entertaining and fun, I'm after taking part in a league seeking to create a living-breathing major league free market where player contracts are thought out extensively, and typical OOTP gaming of a league system is impossible due to the money.....tanking, shady trades, etc, etc It's an awesome idea though. __________________ New York Mets - Asahi2 Baseball

10-14-2010, 03:40 PM	#21
STL10WC Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 264	What do you mean by dispersal draft? Also, you mentioned that it would take faith, interest and committment - but what can prompt that from owners more than their own hard-earned cash?! I think it can be done.

10-14-2010, 06:19 PM	#27
griffeyin98 Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 311	I like the idea as stated before, but agree with the "why invest $175 to earn $20" So far with the kind of money you have set up, I don't see any reason anyone would take over a team like Boston, NY or Phillie knowing they aren't always going to make money. I also disagree that reducing the modifier wouldn't help, this is a community where people get A LOT for free from the current group of commishes. If I'm looking to sign Rich Harden, It's a definite factor whether I want to pay him $12.45 for his 3 yr 124.5 million deal. Maybe I'm just in a different tax bracket, but $15 a season with 3 seasons a year gets costly if you're team isn't making money. Maybe make it something where to purchase teams you have to pay an upfront fee based on market size, so the Yanks would still cost more than the Padres, and then you start paying the payroll after that. I think contraction and an initial draft would be the only way to pull it off. If you can get 30 gms to pay the fees you have set up, you're the best commish in ootpland. I've got a great league with IMO the best website in the community and only 24 teams and we have openings almost every offseason.

10-14-2010, 11:29 PM	#29
griffeyin98 Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 311	I don't think paying for wins would attract the attention, I think there has to be monetary items that make people think harder when signing a guy, and don't sign guys "because I have the salary room" I think this type league if it's going to get off the ground has to be 24 teams and be 24 good gms who get it going and can keep it active and running long enough to show if the structure is correct or not. The structure I suggested ends with money about the same as yours with the exception being teams with high payrolls (178.5 million payroll = $17.85) but with an inaugural draft, I think most payrolls are going to be under $150 million. which would net between $240-$360 with each team paying $10-$15 per season. But then I wouldn't want the responsibility of running a league like this with the amount of work it'll take from the commish, without being able to compete

10-15-2010, 09:33 AM	#31
GhillieSuited Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 29	If it is going to cost me about $20 per season to play I’m in! I’ll take the Yankees right now And for that price I would not care if the commissioner owned a team

10-16-2010, 01:57 PM	#36
GhillieSuited Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 29	Well with OOTP heavy hitters such as Cooley & JWay in favor of this idea maybe it will get off the ground? I would have no issues with being the commissioner or even co-commissioner of a league like this. I have zero/no/none web design experience so I would need someone who knows about that to run that part of the league. I’d be willing to pay for the web site as I would rather have an advertising free site with no pop-ups. In the event that there is enough interest from the OOTP world to get this league up and running I will be working on the rules today. If STL10WC wants to run this league I have no issues stepping aside and letting him take over the reins. If someone else wants to run this league I again will be willing to step aside and just be an owner. Maybe the person who runs the web site/design/updates etc gets his/her team for free? Meaning he/she does not have to pay .15 cents per victory? Maybe the person who is the commissioner of the league gets his/her team for free? Meaning he/she does not have to pay .15 cents per victory? (If I am the commissioner I have no issues paying the .15 cents per victory) Like I said, I will be working on the rules now/today just in case this takes off and there is enough interest. How much interest is out there? Thoughts? Questions? Ideas?

10-21-2010, 06:54 PM	#39
STL10WC Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 264	Just a quick update. This "idea" is not dead. Far from it. We are working on getting something together that would not only be affordable but blow every other online league out of the water. This is ground-breaking stuff. If you are interested in this format, stay tuned, we will be coming out with a model soon...

10-21-2010, 08:59 PM	#40
TommyJ Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: PA Posts: 20	I think like alot of others I think a format for a "Money" league has been needed for some time. It just adds another level of competition to the game. I think the Commish could have plenty at stake as far as monetary gains without being an owner. I could see him taking a portion from the total pool (not amounting to much more than owning an actual team) which would balance things IMO. I think the idea of keeping teams with different Market Sizes, Loyalties, Media Contracts etc, it creates the feeling of really building a team IMO. I also like the Idea of larger payroll teams costing more ($12, $10, $8, $6 etc). Spacing them evenly throughout the league would also be beneficial. One thing I don't think people have really thought about is how the league should be configured, as in Historical or Current. I think both pose a set of issues. Modern Leagues come up with issues as far as player creation, historicals with re-calcs etc. It almost makes a Fictional League seem like the best choice for this type of league. Simming 5-8 years for statistics and then allowing people to draft. Just trying to add anything I can to something I think is a fantastic idea.