Are you ok with OOTP11 not having any more patches? - Page 2

DWK · 09-18-2010, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cody8200

Yeh, I'm pretty happy where OOTP 11 stands. The more development time they have for 12 means the more stuff they can add and test.

I'm hoping they don't add anymore stuff. Let's get all the little issues fixed with what we have now before adding anymore.

Malleus Dei · 09-18-2010, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWK

I'm hoping they don't add anymore stuff. Let's get all the little issues fixed with what we have now before adding anymore.

We ask for this every year, and every year they ignore us.

actionjackson · 09-19-2010, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

We ask for this every year, and every year they ignore us.

Yup. Even I know this and I haven't been around all that long.

Killing Time · 09-19-2010, 01:43 AM

We're the customers. It shouldn't be that way.

Kobeck · 09-19-2010, 01:51 AM

I bought 11, first purchase since 6.5, and I have not played it yet. But looking forward too it. Other than this neutralized stats, which I understand affects historical replays using 3rd party db, isn't there a couple of other doozie bugs. Seems like I read about an ERA bug and a Defense bug.

I am reading around trying to find out definativelly about the big known bugs.

DWK · 09-19-2010, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

We ask for this every year, and every year they ignore us.

Maybe Markus should listen to us, he has a GREAT game now.

I would still buy 12 even if they didn't add any new additions to the game but just cleaned it up what they had.

BusterKing · 09-19-2010, 07:38 AM

Many of us would be quite happy if nothing was added but fix as many bugs as possible, call it 11.5 and sell it for the same price as 11. I'm sure it would make for great sales.

AirmenSmith · 09-19-2010, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BusterKing

Many of us would be quite happy if nothing was added but fix as many bugs as possible, call it 11.5 and sell it for the same price as 11. I'm sure it would make for great sales.

To bad we can't make an official poll asking this.

I know I for one would not buy an 11.5 if all it included was bug fixes. For the way I play the game I don't encounter any bugs, at least none that affect my game. Now if 11.5 had a couple new features and lots of bug fixes then of course I would buy it. I think the only reason I would ever think of purchasing an 11.5, that has no new features, would be out of loyalty to the company.

I'm guessing sales would suffer if an 11.5 was released instead of a 12. Anyway it would be nice to have a poll that lots of people responded to, not one that only has forum users on it. Maybe a mass email.

silvam14 · 09-19-2010, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirmenSmith

To bad we can't make an official poll asking this.

I know I for one would not buy an 11.5 if all it included was bug fixes. For the way I play the game I don't encounter any bugs, at least none that affect my game. Now if 11.5 had a couple new features and lots of bug fixes then of course I would buy it. I think the only reason I would ever think of purchasing an 11.5, that has no new features, would be out of loyalty to the company.

I'm guessing sales would suffer if an 11.5 was released instead of a 12. Anyway it would be nice to have a poll that lots of people responded to, not one that only has forum users on it. Maybe a mass email.

^ This

I don't see how releasing an "11.5" with nothing but bug fixes would be appetizing for those of us with no issues with the game.

1998 Yankees · 09-19-2010, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvam14

^ This

I don't see how releasing an "11.5" with nothing but bug fixes would be appetizing for those of us with no issues with the game.

^ And this. Right now, over 70% of poll respondents feel that this version does not require a further patch, leading one to believe that for this portion of our community, there are no game-killing issues being encountered. With a number like that, it would not make sense for OOTP to come out with an 11.5 upgrade just to fix bugs. As far as new features, I am fine waiting to see what 12 will have in store for us.

Malleus Dei · 09-19-2010, 12:01 PM

Thanks to apathy, OOTP 12 will, like previous versions, have shiny new features to make people go ooh and ahh and yet will still contain all of the legacy bugs that make the game's statistics invalid and which therefore drive many of us crazy.

Some of us want OOTP to be a truly accurate computer baseball game one day. Clearly this is not a priority for many of you.

Thanks for your support - not. Enjoy the shiny objects.

actionjackson · 09-19-2010, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Thanks to apathy, OOTP 12 will, like previous versions, have shiny new features to make people go ooh and ahh and yet will still contain all of the legacy bugs that make the game's statistics invalid and which therefore drive many of us crazy.

Some of us want OOTP to be a truly accurate computer baseball game one day. Clearly this is not a priority for many of you.

Thanks for your support - not. Enjoy the shiny objects.

I guess it's a business decision by Markus. It certainly isn't one that I support. I would rather have the game tightened up and the bugs fixed. I don't see why it has to be either/or, but it's quite evident that all too often it has been so and all too often sound and fury signifying nothing has been favoured over a game with fewer bugs. Unfortunately a lot more bugs were introduced this year, even if they don't affect a lot of the people who voted in this poll, which makes the need for them to be addressed even greater IMHO. Doesn't mean they will be though.

It's a shame because I believe that this game took a fundamental leap forward this year, but with all the bugs that were introduced and remained it's hard for some of us to see that. Given what passes for entertainment these days (and always has), should we really be surprised that style is being chosen over substance yet again?

DWK · 09-19-2010, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Some of us want OOTP to be a truly accurate computer baseball game one day. Clearly this is not a priority for many of you.

Thanks for your support - not. Enjoy the shiny objects.

Well said

Malleus Dei · 09-19-2010, 02:40 PM

Does style being chosen over substance surprise me? Yes. Always. That's a trademark of fools, idiots, and children. Optimistically I expect others to do better, to be better and to want better. That's my own brand of foolishness.

I realize that optimism leads to disappointment and that by definition half of the population is of below average intelligence. That doesn't mean that I have to like any of the consequences of that fact or become a pessimist. I'll just continue to hope for better than I have seen so far and continue to be bitterly disappointed. And to drink a lot because of the difference in all things in this life between what could and should be and what is.

OOTP could and should be a flawless baseball simulation. All that is required for it to be so is attention to detail by the makers and a demand for excellence from the users. But there is insufficient attention to detail, the proof of which lies in the existence of so many legacy bugs, and 70% of the users don't really care about excellence - good enough is just fine for them.

Excuse me, a lot of beer is calling my name.

actionjackson · 09-19-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Does style being chosen over substance surprise me? Yes. Always. That's a trademark of fools, idiots, and children. Optimistically I expect others to do better, to be better and to want better. That's my own brand of foolishness.

I realize that optimism leads to disappointment and that by definition half of the population is of below average intelligence. That doesn't mean that I have to like any of the consequences of that fact or become a pessimist. I'll just continue to hope for better than I have seen so far and continue to be bitterly disappointed. And to drink a lot because of the difference in all things in this life between what could and should be and what is.

OOTP could and should be a flawless baseball simulation. All that is required for it to be so is attention to detail by the makers and a demand for excellence from the users. But there is insufficient attention to detail, the proof of which lies in the existence of so many legacy bugs, and 70% of the users don't really care about excellence - good enough is just fine for them.

Excuse me, a lot of beer is calling my name.

Oh I didn't say you should like it, just that it's unfortunately to be expected...But you would know that better than me.

1998 Yankees · 09-19-2010, 06:50 PM

I gather some recent comments were directed my way. Well:

Part of it is being happy with the game, minor faults and all.

Part of it is not being into it as much as others to notice such faults.

Part of it is wanting to enjoy the game now, not wait for perfection, and so I do.

And part of it is looking at this as a businessman and knowing what is practical and what is not.

1998 Yankees · 09-19-2010, 07:04 PM

Of course, I remember a time or two when I was up in arms about something important to me...

Just not right now.

I would like to see a post, or thread, that lists all such legacy bugs and I would like to see them recognized by OOTP and fixed in version 12.

But, right now, I'm going to play 11 and enjoy the heck out of it.

actionjackson · 09-19-2010, 07:12 PM

I think I'm being quite reasonable in demanding that the fielders in my original import, when I play the game my way, are able to catch the damn ball. They could in 7, 8, 9, and X, but now they can't. That needs to be addressed. It is not a minor fault, all business practicality aside. I'm working to find a way around it, but I'm not sure why the onus should be on me when something got broken during the fielding system fix (which I supported 100% by the way - it was necessary in order to take the game forward) between X and 11.

Having said all that, I respect your position and am glad the game is working for you. It blowed up real good for myself and others that play the way I do. Yes, we are in the extreme minority on this forum, but to go from a functioning game to 11 is disappointing to say the least, and to be told it was fixed in the bug fixes list, when a five minute test revealed the exact opposite, is bunk. I can fix it for myself by importing the players one by one, but that doesn't mean I should be happy about it.

1998 Yankees · 09-19-2010, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

I think I'm being quite reasonable in demanding that the fielders in my original import, when I play the game my way, are able to catch the damn ball. They could in 7, 8, 9, and X, but now they can't. That needs to be addressed. It is not a minor fault, all business practicality aside. I'm working to find a way around it, but I'm not sure why the onus should be on me when something got broken during the fielding system fix (which I supported 100% by the way - it was necessary in order to take the game forward) between X and 11.

Having said all that, I respect your position and am glad the game is working for you. It blowed up real good for myself and others that play the way I do. Yes, we are in the extreme minority on this forum, but to go from a functioning game to 11 is disappointing to say the least, and to be told it was fixed in the bug fixes list, when a five minute test revealed the exact opposite, is bunk. I can fix it for myself by importing the players one by one, but that doesn't mean I should be happy about it.

I hear you. I remember feeling the same way about the lefty-righty ratings merge problem (no differential between the two) from a few versions ago. I remember the outrage I felt when MH himself denied the issue when the evidence was presented over and over again by multiple users. I also thought of leaving the game when it became clear there were no more updates for that version, and the problem went unresolved.

Yet, it was acknowledged and resolved in the next version. Was that right? No, but it was probably necessary from an OOTP business perspective. Since then, I have been a relatively happy camper and I am glad that I did not leave the game.

It is this attitude that I am trying to bring out here, to balance things. Should you be happy at this point? No, of course not. But, I would advise patience. This is a damned complicated program that cannot be turned around easily, or too often, without jeopardizing the all-important product cycle. And without that, there is no future OOTP.

1998 Yankees · 09-19-2010, 07:41 PM

One more thought. I always keep in mind that OOTP is really the brainchild of one person who is not in the best of health at all times. He's got two or three other guys who help in certain aspects but he is the person doing the programming gruntwork, from what I can gather. This is not a big operation, and never has been. That affects my attitude about this game. What he has been able to accomplish in improving OOTP over the years leads me to cut him some slack. That's the way I am (right now

).

View Poll Results: Are you ok with not having anymore patches for OOTP11?
YES	120	68.97%
NO	54	31.03%
Voters: 174. You may not vote on this poll

09-19-2010, 01:51 AM	#25
Kobeck Major Leagues Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 491	I bought 11, first purchase since 6.5, and I have not played it yet. But looking forward too it. Other than this neutralized stats, which I understand affects historical replays using 3rd party db, isn't there a couple of other doozie bugs. Seems like I read about an ERA bug and a Defense bug. I am reading around trying to find out definativelly about the big known bugs. Last edited by Kobeck; 09-19-2010 at 01:56 AM.

09-19-2010, 07:12 PM	#38
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,163	I think I'm being quite reasonable in demanding that the fielders in my original import, when I play the game my way, are able to catch the damn ball. They could in 7, 8, 9, and X, but now they can't. That needs to be addressed. It is not a minor fault, all business practicality aside. I'm working to find a way around it, but I'm not sure why the onus should be on me when something got broken during the fielding system fix (which I supported 100% by the way - it was necessary in order to take the game forward) between X and 11. Having said all that, I respect your position and am glad the game is working for you. It blowed up real good for myself and others that play the way I do. Yes, we are in the extreme minority on this forum, but to go from a functioning game to 11 is disappointing to say the least, and to be told it was fixed in the bug fixes list, when a five minute test revealed the exact opposite, is bunk. I can fix it for myself by importing the players one by one, but that doesn't mean I should be happy about it. Last edited by actionjackson; 09-19-2010 at 07:14 PM.

09-19-2010, 07:38 AM	#27
BusterKing Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,415	Many of us would be quite happy if nothing was added but fix as many bugs as possible, call it 11.5 and sell it for the same price as 11. I'm sure it would make for great sales.

09-19-2010, 06:50 PM	#36
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	I gather some recent comments were directed my way. Well: Part of it is being happy with the game, minor faults and all. Part of it is not being into it as much as others to notice such faults. Part of it is wanting to enjoy the game now, not wait for perfection, and so I do. And part of it is looking at this as a businessman and knowing what is practical and what is not.

09-19-2010, 07:04 PM	#37
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	Of course, I remember a time or two when I was up in arms about something important to me... Just not right now. I would like to see a post, or thread, that lists all such legacy bugs and I would like to see them recognized by OOTP and fixed in version 12. But, right now, I'm going to play 11 and enjoy the heck out of it.

09-19-2010, 07:41 PM	#40
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	One more thought. I always keep in mind that OOTP is really the brainchild of *one person* who is not in the best of health at all times. He's got two or three other guys who help in certain aspects but he is the person doing the programming gruntwork, from what I can gather. This is not a big operation, and never has been. That affects my attitude about this game. What he has been able to accomplish in improving OOTP over the years leads me to cut him some slack. That's the way I am (right now ).