Spritze DB's for OOTP11

[Bristolduke]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

More than likely:

1 neutralized
2 no
3 career
4 career

Then you can probably test what you are thinking of by changing the debut year on the master csv. However:


Since you are changing the master.csv, you have to delete the .odb file. That means that you will only get current year neutralized data for your first year (duplicated - they show up twice). After the first year all the neutralizaed data will show up for each player as your new first year player drafts occur. The multiple years for the first set of players will never show up. I don't know what that will mean for their career stats. My limited testing would indicate that may be viewed as 1 year career players, but much too limited on my tests at the moment to be sure.


Since you are using career for the ratings, what you are trying "may" work. Keep in mind that by using the in-game files there is no season 1 or season 2 data for some your players, the first year and for all your players after that. I believe this is different than the Spritze 18yr old DB, because he has created season records for those earlier years. So you may find that all that will be generated is very low end players, who may or may not develop. The players who were active two years earlier "should" be OK, but again, that is a guess on my part.

One final qualification. The bugs around neutralized are not as bad as prior to this patch (if you aren't using patch 23, neutralized won't work at all), but I'm not sure we have found all the side affects yet. So you will be travelling virgin territory.

Let me know if you have questions, I'll try to help as I can.

[Cooleyvol]

I don't see what changing the debut year has to do with all of that?

[Bristolduke]

I don't see what changing the debut year has to do with all of that?

Not sure I understand the question.

1) Any change to the master file (debut date in this case), requires that the .odb be deleted in order for the master file changes to take affect.

2) Deleting the .odb and using neutralizaed stats doesn't work properly. (Numerous threads on this and no fix in sight).

3) There are no stats for the first seasons of a player if you back his debut date off two years. While using career/no-re-calc sounds plausible, I have not seen any ratings or performance of historical sims for players with no-data (e.g. when using the normal files with gap seasons, the sim uses it's player development model for those seasons on re-calc. But on career play it is creating a player profile and using the player development model exclusively. The question is how does it determine first year stats on a career model. If it uses year 1 data, and in your scenario there is no year one data what is the sim going to do - create the player like a fantasy player? That is where I think you are on new ground. It might work.) I am pretty sure Spritze added the stats data in his 18yr old DB. So I don't know of any DB or any experience with historical sims wthout historical data.

Noting the problems with 1 and 2 above(which you can't get around), this may work. But it may not produce the results you are looking for. testing it out is the only way to know.

[Spritze]

I believe Gambo's older db's had player year lines in the csv's with no stats so he might know how this sorta thing works out.

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by Bristolduke

Not sure I understand the question.

1) Any change to the master file (debut date in this case), requires that the .odb be deleted in order for the master file changes to take affect.

2) Deleting the .odb and using neutralizaed stats doesn't work properly. (Numerous threads on this and no fix in sight).

3) There are no stats for the first seasons of a player if you back his debut date off two years. While using career/no-re-calc sounds plausible, I have not seen any ratings or performance of historical sims for players with no-data (e.g. when using the normal files with gap seasons, the sim uses it's player development model for those seasons on re-calc. But on career play it is creating a player profile and using the player development model exclusively. The question is how does it determine first year stats on a career model. If it uses year 1 data, and in your scenario there is no year one data what is the sim going to do - create the player like a fantasy player? That is where I think you are on new ground. It might work.) I am pretty sure Spritze added the stats data in his 18yr old DB. So I don't know of any DB or any experience with historical sims wthout historical data.

Noting the problems with 1 and 2 above(which you can't get around), this may work. But it may not produce the results you are looking for. testing it out is the only way to know.

If he's debuting in the minors, he'd have no first year ML stats anyway. I don't really want EVERYONE at age 18 when some debuted at 20 IRL and some later. I want them in the ammy draft 2 years prior to their rookie season, IRL, to give some dev time in the minors.

[Bristolduke]

If he's debuting in the minors, he'd have no first year ML stats anyway. I don't really want EVERYONE at age 18 when some debuted at 20 IRL and some later. I want them in the ammy draft 2 years prior to their rookie season, IRL, to give some dev time in the minors.

I believe the key here is that since you are using historical players, the sim is looking for historical data to create the player to match the debut date. If that historical data doesn't exist (as it expects) what is the sim going to look at? That's the piece you need to test, unless, as Spritze indicates, Gambo has particular experience with 11 here.

Of course one option is to edit Spritze's 18yr old DB (master) to create the debut-2 you are looking for. It might then ignore the other previous seasons when the player is created. Remember you still need to delete his .odb to have your changes take affect.

[Gambo]

With OOTP11 the they do not have to have stats in the batting.csv but there needs to be something in the batting2.csv (and so on for pitching and fielding).

This could NOT be done prior to 11. (I thank myself for getting this fixed for OOTP11 )

(Warning : I have not fully tested this below scenario)

If you want players to debut according to whenever you want just make the debut date whatever year you want. As long as there is a line for that year in the batting2.csv you're fine. But there is a catch, you're initial import will look in the 2.csvs for stats. If they're there it will create the guy and if he "debuts" after that year you will have a double.

Example = Don Mattingly
MLB Debut 1982, your debut 1980, G/S database 1979.

If you use ours as a base and you do an inital import in 197 he will be created as he has stats in the G/S database for 1979-1996. Now you progress to the 1980 rookies and he will import again. Two Don Mattinglys.

To avoid this you would have to remove all lines from the batting2,fielding2 and pitching2 csvs for all years for each player before the debut in your database.

[Bristolduke]

So given, Gambo's response here is the additional steps given the bugs.

You make the changes to the master csv and delete the .odb.

1) You are selecting neutralized stats and everything based upon entire career.

2) You must also select import player histories
(Note: If you do this for a later year the import will fail (I think it is around 1960 - but I don't recall), prior to that year it should work - may take awhile.

I ran a quick test on the default files in dealing with the neutralized bugs and it looks like it may work.

If you want players to debut according to whenever you want just make the debut date whatever year you want. As long as there is a line for that year in the batting2.csv you're fine.

Of course, the only option is to modify the Spritze DB

[Spritze]

Changes/Additions

The last of the minor league stars as defined by SABR have been added.

I got more data points for Asian players so now fewer are good enough to make the majors, the 1950's now usually have 4 to 8 per year, the 1990's about 20. Depends on the year of course.

Gambo has pointed out that this db works less goodlier the farther you get away from the sweet spot (1943 - 1974). I find it plays just fine 1871-1980 but then the dearth and paucity of minor league datapoints make the major league equivalences less gooder. Strangely the data points I have for the Asians (Japanese and Korean) seem to make them reasonably accurate until 2008 or so.

I'll knock out a no Asians version in a few days and an Asians only version as well. There won't be a real teams version as Gambo has that covered and this db is meant to start in 1871 and progress anyway although you can start in any year you choose. If you that do you will see that players will be on the team they are most associated with historically. Most associated means spent the most time with and that includes being in a teams minor league organization. Unassociated players will be available on the free agent list.

At the "Secret Site" and will be on Padres site soon enough.

[Kronos]

Will this have the Team Abbreviations fixed?

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by Kronos

Will this have the Team Abbreviations fixed?

Yes, all the Lahman changes are incorporated.

[PadresFan]

Originally Posted by Spritze

At the "Secret Site" and will be on Padres site soon enough.

Posted

[plannine]

Originally Posted by Spritze

Yes, all the Lahman changes are incorporated.

This version seems (so far - only in 1871 spring training) to work well without the odb file. (no 88-77 scores after the first day of ST!!!)

[I don't use the odb, since I use a modified teams file.]

[3fbrown]

So given, Gambo's response here is the additional steps given the bugs.

You make the changes to the master csv and delete the .odb.

1) You are selecting neutralized stats and everything based upon entire career.

2) You must also select import player histories
(Note: If you do this for a later year the import will fail (I think it is around 1960 - but I don't recall), prior to that year it should work - may take awhile.

I ran a quick test on the default files in dealing with the neutralized bugs and it looks like it may work.

This is all confusing (to me, a relative novice), but I would like to double check that I understand, applying this to my situation. I want to have a historical league that starts in (say) 1901, with the normalized database, but having players debut in the year they got real PT in MLB. For example, Joe Nuxhall pitched a bit at age 16, but didn't *really* show up for good for a few years after that. I want him to debut when he came up for good.

For this, I would need to do the following:
1) Edit the master.csv debut years accordingly
2) Delete the .odb file
3) Select neutralized stats when starting the league
4) Have potentials based on peak years of career
5) Do all this with the databases that come with OOTP

Does this sound like it will work? Would it work for any year? And is there something else important I need to do?

Thanks!

[Bristolduke]

Originally Posted by 3fbrown

This is all confusing (to me, a relative novice), but I would like to double check that I understand, applying this to my situation. I want to have a historical league that starts in (say) 1901, with the normalized database, but having players debut in the year they got real PT in MLB. For example, Joe Nuxhall pitched a bit at age 16, but didn't *really* show up for good for a few years after that. I want him to debut when he came up for good.

For this, I would need to do the following:
1) Edit the master.csv debut years accordingly
2) Delete the .odb file
3) Select neutralized stats when starting the league
4) Have potentials based on peak years of career
5) Do all this with the databases that come with OOTP

Does this sound like it will work? Would it work for any year? And is there something else important I need to do?

Thanks!

The assumption I am making from your post is that you are basing your league on career stats and not using re-calc. Sorry for the confusion, it is a fair amount of work to get around the bugs OOTP introduce in 11. Previous versions don't have this problem.


1) Edit the master.csv debut years accordingly
1a) Delete the season entries in the batting2, fielding2, fieldingOF2, and pitching2 .csv files for the players you edit the debut year.
2) Delete the .odb file
3) Select neutralized stats when starting the league
3a) Select import complete history (there is a limit as to how far this will go before it will hang -1901 will be fine)
4) Have potentials based on peak years of career
4a) select base fielding ratings on entire career
4b) select base pitcher stamina on entire career
4c) select player development to be "use talent ratings and OOTP development engine"
5) Do all this with the databases that come with OOTP - YES


Hope that helps.

[3fbrown]

Originally Posted by Bristolduke

The assumption I am making from your post is that you are basing your league on career stats and not using re-calc.

...

1) Edit the master.csv debut years accordingly
1a) Delete the season entries in the batting2, fielding2, fieldingOF2, and pitching2 .csv files for the players you edit the debut year.

...

Hope that helps.

First of all, that is very helpful, thanks. And yes, I will NOT be using the recalc. I don't think I care too much whether fielding/pitching is based on career or 3 years, but I do want potentials based on peak seasons, which doesn't appear to be a problem.

As for 1a - if the debut year in the master.csv file gets pushed back, but those season stat lines are still in batting2.csv, etc., will that cause problems? Because that would be substantially more work, to edit everything.

[Bristolduke]

As for 1a - if the debut year in the master.csv file gets pushed back, but those season stat lines are still in batting2.csv, etc., will that cause problems? Because that would be substantially more work, to edit everything.

According to Gambo earlier in this thread.

Originally Posted by Gambo

With OOTP11 the they do not have to have stats in the batting.csv but there needs to be something in the batting2.csv (and so on for pitching and fielding).

This could NOT be done prior to 11. (I thank myself for getting this fixed for OOTP11 )

(Warning : I have not fully tested this below scenario)

If you want players to debut according to whenever you want just make the debut date whatever year you want. As long as there is a line for that year in the batting2.csv you're fine. But there is a catch, you're initial import will look in the 2.csvs for stats. If they're there it will create the guy and if he "debuts" after that year you will have a double.

Example = Don Mattingly
MLB Debut 1982, your debut 1980, G/S database 1979.

If you use ours as a base and you do an inital import in 197 he will be created as he has stats in the G/S database for 1979-1996. Now you progress to the 1980 rookies and he will import again. Two Don Mattinglys.

To avoid this you would have to remove all lines from the batting2,fielding2 and pitching2 csvs for all years for each player before the debut in your database.

This is what i was basing my answer upon.

[3fbrown]

So then the editing of the *2.csv files would only be important for the initial import. For future years, it shouldn't matter. I guess I could try this and find out...

[3fbrown]

This seemed to work fine. I started my league in 1901, in 1902 the appropriate guys were in the draft, including delayed debuts from 1901. So that seems to be a fine way to do things, if that helps anyone other than me.

However, in 1903, the game stopped using the database and started populating the draft with fictional players. I have seen this before, when I screwed something up with the database, but since it worked fine the previous draft (and I didn't touch anything - I actually simmed 1901-1910 without stopping), I can't figure out what went wrong!

Any thoughts?

[Bristolduke]

In your set up when is the first year player draft held? I seem to recall if it is held before the season (maybe during) that it exhausts the pool and then generates fictional players. I always run historical drafts in November. That would be my first thought.

Second thought would be, in what year did the first fictional player occur (e.g. was there a or more fictional players in 1902) and what was the last real player taken. That might point to a bad record in the DB(the players taken for that year will need to be looked at alphabetically to find the bad record). Once it gets an error it will just stay with fictional.