The OOTP E-Mail Survey: An On-line Subscription Service? - Page 2

MizzouRah · 08-25-2010, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgom27

The Storylines I would like to see are what Trade Rumors are out their like the Mets are willing to give up Fernando Martinez,Holt,Parnell and 2 draft Picks for Prince Fielder,that the city like Seattle has rejected the Mariners plans for a new Stadium or Dome. Maybe use mlbtraderumors.com as example. The Rangers have invited Pat Borders,Ian Snell,Tim Burke,John David,Sammy Henderson to camp as non Roster people.

Would love to see this.. MORE IMMERSION!!!

Gambo · 08-25-2010, 01:15 PM

I have put in my votes and my biggest thing is more immersion...

Generally from OOTP's history I don't think anything would be done that "replaces" current features.

I'm not interesting in the huge online thing (don't do online) but I believe this will be another additional option, instead of replacing the current system.

In terms of the 2D/3D graphincs, this I also think will be an option that can be turned off (just like ball flights and facegen)

Also, adding these features would more likely include another outside individual being brought into the development team, much like Andreas handles the Facegen coding while Markus does the game engine coding.

I also don't want to see the game get too big for the casual user. The immersion factor needs to be weighted with expanding stuff like financials. If you make this stuff to complicated and confusing the user forgets about the other aspects of the game and loses interest. (Read up on Masters of Orion 3)

In terms of immersion I think the storylines are important in establishing a "world" for your league, the ballpark generator would be cool (just don't get into press boxes and play areas and restaurant... just dimensions, capacity and type with ballpark factors... the rest is useless fluff).

In the end I would like to see...
For fictional:

1) Influential Storylines
2) Ballpark Generator
3) Improved (not expanded) financials

For real/historical
1) Real Transaction database
2) Improved Spring Training
3) Real managers and improvement of coaches and staff (more in line with reality --- no fictional staff)

ctorg · 08-25-2010, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gambo

I also don't want to see the game get too big for the casual user. The immersion factor needs to be weighted with expanding stuff like financials. If you make this stuff to complicated and confusing the user forgets about the other aspects of the game and loses interest. (Read up on Masters of Orion 3)

That's a good point. I am in favor of increased financial realism, but that doesn't mean I want to hire a CPA to help me understand the game. It needs to retain its simplified approach (e.g., combining various elements of income under "merchandising" and keeping ticket prices as an average rather than having tiers of prices) but produce results that are closer to something the real world produces.

Biggio509 · 08-25-2010, 03:07 PM

To me financial is important. I am not sure where the expansion would come though. The game has almost everything other split contracts and for some players it simulates that by switching players over to minor league contract. Financial systems could be improved with things like contract clauses.

In some ways you can combine financial improvement with expanding realism. For instance Kaz Matsui's contract with the Houston Astros included a translator for him, a masseuse, and sushi in the club house. Perks would cost you something but would attract the player for less money. Maybe someone with high greed would want more perks, a certain locker, a certain water, a type of sunflower seeds, etc. This would give more negotiating options, expand the financial system and increase role play immersion at the same time.

I would like to see instructional leagues and a way to have Spring training in Florida like RL. I think instructional leagues could be as simple as during the offseason players below A ball get something like the old spring training screen where you can choose to teach them a new position, eg. Delino DeShields Jr. will be learning 2B in the instructional league this year, or work on a new pitch, accuracy, base running, or hitting skills.

Le Grande Orange · 08-25-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctorg

I am in favor of increased financial realism, but that doesn't mean I want to hire a CPA to help me understand the game. It needs to retain its simplified approach (e.g., combining various elements of income under "merchandising" and keeping ticket prices as an average rather than having tiers of prices) but produce results that are closer to something the real world produces.

The game's financial system is something I've been thinking about for a couple of years, and spent some time researching real world data. I could go on at length about ideas on how to improve it.

In terms of revenue streams, there should be five revenue sources for a club:

Gate revenue
Stadium revenue (this represents such things as luxury suites, concessions, parking, naming rights, etc.)
Local media
National revenue (primarily national media contracts but also all other national-level revenue)
Merchandising (this represents not just the merchandise sold by clubs [which is actually only a small part of a real club's revenue], but also advertising, promotions, and sponsorship revenue)

One could, if they wished, roll merchandising into stadium revenue to make things simpler.

The one thing OOTP doesn't do at present is distinguish between local and national media revenue, and that distinction is important. The amount of local media income for a club can vary considerably, but national revenue is divided equally amongst the member clubs. It's an important stabilizing force in club revenue (revenue sharing is another but that's something different).

Currently, MLB clubs receive roughly $40 million each in national revenue (or about $30 million if you subtract what the clubs have to each pay for the players' pension and benefits plans).

Biggio509 · 08-25-2010, 04:47 PM

One other thing is that local revenues are subject to revenue sharing while national revenues are not.

I wonder if by expanding the financial system if they mean bringing back some features that were dropped. I do not remember which version but I do remember some time way back you offer promotions to increase attendance. You had some kind of budget for promotions and the more attendance it drew the more it cost. I am not sure if there were other features like that I have forgotten.

68pirate · 08-25-2010, 06:20 PM

I took the survey, and selected nothing from the feature list. If those are the things I have to look forward to in 12 I'll stick with 11. And I've purchased every year since I started this game with version 8. Of course, I only play historical. I could care less about any eye candy. Understandably, others may be excited by the possibilities on that list, but not me. I would like to see more user control/direction for the a.i. on such items as pinch hitting depth chart, roster composition, bullpen usage (as mentioned in another thread, innings are not spread around right now and slot placement has no effect). I would love to see the depth chart scrapped completely in favor of another system based on percentage of games started instead of start every "x" number of games. Starting pitchers should be set up that way also, so that starts can be spread over 10 different pitchers if the user wishes, not just 1 or 2 spot starters. I could go on and on...and would especially love to see an option to follow real life transactions and lineups. Regardless of the direction they take, OOTP remains my favorite game and I will continue to play. I just might have to skip 12 and wait until 13.

Sabermetric Baseball · 08-25-2010, 06:26 PM

I don't think the news and storylines need a complete revamp, but there are some events that get major coverage in real life that are totally ignored in the OOTP news - MLB debuts of top prospects, star players being placed on waivers, star players changing position, contract negotiations gone south. The position changes might be tough, but it should be easy to trigger a news article from the other three events.

Minor leagues / prospects would seem to be an area that OOTP could improve. Real minor league team names and an Arizona Fall League are two features I've seen people mention for the past several versions.

Player ratings development is almost completely random in OOTP. I think it would make more sense to rewrite the development engine so that player ratings change based on actual performance. A .750 OPS hitter doesn't suddenly skyrocket their hitting abilities by 20%. In real life, if a 20 year old posts a .950 OPS in a full season at AA it's BIG news for their development; in OOTP, it's pretty much irrelevant.

The online subscription service would not work unless it was free/cheap. Those types of endeavors are only successful with a large number of players, and I think there will be a limited market for this (especially if the regular game still supports online leagues). If OOTP goes this route, I think a model similar to "Baseball Boss" would be most effective - free to play, revenue generated via selling upgrades and/or advertisements.

I think the video/graphics should be put on hold until a much larger development team is available. Images are the first thing to catch a person's attention - when this game has more detailed video/graphics, people will look at this as a video game rather than a simulator. And if those video/graphics are only patched together by a couple Programmers, then it's going to look like a very poor video game. "Front Page Sports Baseball Pro" went out of business trying to be both a video game and a simulator. I could really see that hurting sales more than helping.

fhomess · 08-25-2010, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabermetric Baseball

(especially if the regular game still supports online leagues)

If OOTP doesn't continue to support this, they'll lose a fair number of customers, myself included. Yes, I checked that I play both solo and online, but I really only dabble in solo. Online is what I care about given that the solo game will never achieve the same level of interaction and challenge that the online game provides.

Killing Time · 08-26-2010, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aytumious

The on the field representation is the future, my friends.

It's the future of console games. Not OOTP.

OOTP cannot afford to waste programming time on graphics.

We've been over this and over this. Stop bringing it up.

fspikec · 08-26-2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killing Time

It's the future of console games. Not OOTP.

OOTP cannot afford to waste programming time on graphics.

We've been over this and over this. Stop bringing it up.

I highly doubt it would be the current programmers doing the graphics if they were added. So minimal time lost. If anything, I think graphics would bring in more money and provide them more money to work on adding more immersion/features.

fhomess · 08-26-2010, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fspikec

I highly doubt it would be the current programmers doing the graphics if they were added. So minimal time lost. If anything, I think graphics would bring in more money and provide them more money to work on adding more immersion/features.

The real question is whether or not adding on field graphics brings in more money than the cost of the programmers who'd do the work would cost, because if so, then it's worth it. I think Markus needs to consider that his product is now over 10 years old and the market may be growing (I really don't know if this is true or not), but it's almost certainly going to be limited somewhat by the lack of graphics. Personally, I doubt that expanding on field animation will increase market size significantly, but I have no doubt that it would increase it some. At the core, the game is still numbers based, so on field graphics don't add anything to the mechanics of the game. I'm dubious in terms of how much additional enjoyment it'll bring gamers. Sure, the folks who play out a fair number of games will probably enjoy it, but you still have to provide enough numbers on the game screen as that's what this game is really about. If adding graphics takes away from this, they'll probably lose some customers. My big worry is that OOTP is starting to become a bit bloated. It's lost the simplicity that attracted many of us to it in the first place. It's a much better simulation in many respects, but the ease of play has diminished, imo.

rudoggy · 08-26-2010, 11:22 AM

I think a lot more explanation about what this "on-line" experience is should have been included in the survey.

I also, would want to have no part in it.

I got into this game for specific reasons. I could play MVP or frontpage if i wanted a pretty game with meaningless numbers. I liked ootp for its dedication to getting the numbers right.

I just think this is a big branch off from the main product. And IMO, the main product, while great, still is not done. I don't like the idea of resources put towards something else, until the current game is as good as it can be.

rudoggy · 08-26-2010, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhomess

The real question is whether or not adding on field graphics brings in more money than the cost of the programmers who'd do the work would cost, because if so, then it's worth it. I think Markus needs to consider that his product is now over 10 years old and the market may be growing (I really don't know if this is true or not), but it's almost certainly going to be limited somewhat by the lack of graphics. Personally, I doubt that expanding on field animation will increase market size significantly, but I have no doubt that it would increase it some. At the core, the game is still numbers based, so on field graphics don't add anything to the mechanics of the game. I'm dubious in terms of how much additional enjoyment it'll bring gamers. Sure, the folks who play out a fair number of games will probably enjoy it, but you still have to provide enough numbers on the game screen as that's what this game is really about. If adding graphics takes away from this, they'll probably lose some customers. My big worry is that OOTP is starting to become a bit bloated. It's lost the simplicity that attracted many of us to it in the first place. It's a much better simulation in many respects, but the ease of play has diminished, imo.

very much agree. With soooooo many options, it is not about "play it your way", it is about "lets see how long it takes to start playing it your way"

mgom27 · 08-26-2010, 12:54 PM

Now we do have the Arizona league but no Winter Ball Leagues that are real.

Only real Minor League Teams names for when we load Historical Leagues.
Yes designing the Stadiums/Domes to have what ever we want is good and Spring Training Stadiums to.

Sabermetric Baseball · 08-26-2010, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgom27

Now we do have the Arizona league but no Winter Ball Leagues that are real.

I'm talking about functionality as well as league structure - we do not have an Arizona Fall League with 6 teams, in which every team can send X number of prospects each fall. The AFL teams either need to be associated with a single MLB organization, or you need to go into the player editor and move the players from the MLB organization to the AFL team.

fspikec · 08-26-2010, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudoggy

very much agree. With soooooo many options, it is not about "play it your way", it is about "lets see how long it takes to start playing it your way"

Maybe it's just me, but that is one of the parts I enjoy most. I enjoy tweaking settings here and there and seeing the outcomes. Hell, I will make an experimental league and sim 100 seasons over night (typically 1900-2000, mlb financial settings, full minors) just to see the results. One of the things I like best about OOTP compared to the other baseball sims is the amount of settings and controls we get to use.

Stealcompany · 08-26-2010, 01:42 PM

I want a new mac version of Inside the Park!

Le Grande Orange · 08-26-2010, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggio509

One other thing is that local revenues are subject to revenue sharing while national revenues are not.

Just wanted to correct the above. In MLB, some national revenues (or more accurately Central Fund revenue) are used for revenue sharing. It works like this:

A portion of the Central Fund is set aside for revenue sharing purposes; the amount is the difference between the revenue shared in a straight pool plan using 31% of net local revenues and a straight pool plan using 48% of net local revenues. That Central Fund amount is then distributed to teams in a fixed percentage allocation based on the average net local revenues over the 2005-06 seasons. There is an adjustment to that fixed percentage allocation should any MLB club open a new stadium during the term of the CBA.

The amount of money left over in the Central Fund after the revenue sharing component is subtracted is then split evenly between all 30 teams.

Biggio509 · 08-26-2010, 05:05 PM

For me I am not sure what better graphics would add. FM2010 is kind of fun to watch with a 3D sim but there are fewer decisions to be made. I am not sure if it really expands the market by having graphics. The only way I think to expand the market is completely overhaul the game into something like FPS Baseball of the old Seirra company. In that you could choose the pitches for a pitcher and the location and I think you choose the type of swing for the batter. So you were not just choosing the manager's strategy.

In those days, this was state of the art. So I am not sure if OOTP starts to compete with MLB The Show or any other console type game when you actually swing the bat and use buttons or the stick to throw a pitch and move the guy to catch a ball and choose which base to throw to. I think something more like the old Front Page Sports might be the solution to more graphics but I am very skeptical if as to if it is nothing more than sunk costs. FM2010's game play would be easier to do but you still do not get out the NFL Headcoach, Front Office manager, etc. type games. In comparison OOTP is miles ahead of any of these other than graphics but does not have the marketing nor console versions to be on the same level of recognition.

08-25-2010, 01:15 PM	#22
Gambo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 2,388	I have put in my votes and my biggest thing is more immersion... Generally from OOTP's history I don't think anything would be done that "replaces" current features. I'm not interesting in the huge online thing (don't do online) but I believe this will be another additional option, instead of replacing the current system. In terms of the 2D/3D graphincs, this I also think will be an option that can be turned off (just like ball flights and facegen) Also, adding these features would more likely include another outside individual being brought into the development team, much like Andreas handles the Facegen coding while Markus does the game engine coding. I also don't want to see the game get too big for the casual user. The immersion factor needs to be weighted with expanding stuff like financials. If you make this stuff to complicated and confusing the user forgets about the other aspects of the game and loses interest. (Read up on Masters of Orion 3) In terms of immersion I think the storylines are important in establishing a "world" for your league, the ballpark generator would be cool (just don't get into press boxes and play areas and restaurant... just dimensions, capacity and type with ballpark factors... the rest is useless fluff). In the end I would like to see... For fictional: 1) Influential Storylines 2) Ballpark Generator 3) Improved (not expanded) financials For real/historical 1) Real Transaction database 2) Improved Spring Training 3) Real managers and improvement of coaches and staff (more in line with reality --- no fictional staff) __________________ *Give me league evolution with historical imports!!!* OOTP MODS: Historical Face Gen Project, Spritze/Gambo Database, OOTP Stadium Chart and Ballpark Images, MLB Compiled Uniform & Logo Pack available at... http://www.ootpmods.com

08-25-2010, 06:26 PM	#28
Sabermetric Baseball Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 178	I don't think the news and storylines need a complete revamp, but there are some events that get major coverage in real life that are totally ignored in the OOTP news - MLB debuts of top prospects, star players being placed on waivers, star players changing position, contract negotiations gone south. The position changes might be tough, but it should be easy to trigger a news article from the other three events. Minor leagues / prospects would seem to be an area that OOTP could improve. Real minor league team names and an Arizona Fall League are two features I've seen people mention for the past several versions. Player ratings development is almost completely random in OOTP. I think it would make more sense to rewrite the development engine so that player ratings change based on actual performance. A .750 OPS hitter doesn't suddenly skyrocket their hitting abilities by 20%. In real life, if a 20 year old posts a .950 OPS in a full season at AA it's BIG news for their development; in OOTP, it's pretty much irrelevant. The online subscription service would not work unless it was free/cheap. Those types of endeavors are only successful with a large number of players, and I think there will be a limited market for this (especially if the regular game still supports online leagues). If OOTP goes this route, I think a model similar to "Baseball Boss" would be most effective - free to play, revenue generated via selling upgrades and/or advertisements. I think the video/graphics should be put on hold until a much larger development team is available. Images are the first thing to catch a person's attention - when this game has more detailed video/graphics, people will look at this as a video game rather than a simulator. And if those video/graphics are only patched together by a couple Programmers, then it's going to look like a very poor video game. "Front Page Sports Baseball Pro" went out of business trying to be both a video game and a simulator. I could really see that hurting sales more than helping. __________________ The Sabermetric Baseball Sim http://www.sabermetricbaseballsim.com/

08-26-2010, 12:54 PM	#35
mgom27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,533	Now we do have the Arizona league but no Winter Ball Leagues that are real. Only real Minor League Teams names for when we load Historical Leagues. Yes designing the Stadiums/Domes to have what ever we want is good and Spring Training Stadiums to. __________________ Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!

08-25-2010, 03:07 PM	#24
Biggio509 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,027	To me financial is important. I am not sure where the expansion would come though. The game has almost everything other split contracts and for some players it simulates that by switching players over to minor league contract. Financial systems could be improved with things like contract clauses. In some ways you can combine financial improvement with expanding realism. For instance Kaz Matsui's contract with the Houston Astros included a translator for him, a masseuse, and sushi in the club house. Perks would cost you something but would attract the player for less money. Maybe someone with high greed would want more perks, a certain locker, a certain water, a type of sunflower seeds, etc. This would give more negotiating options, expand the financial system and increase role play immersion at the same time. I would like to see instructional leagues and a way to have Spring training in Florida like RL. I think instructional leagues could be as simple as during the offseason players below A ball get something like the old spring training screen where you can choose to teach them a new position, eg. Delino DeShields Jr. will be learning 2B in the instructional league this year, or work on a new pitch, accuracy, base running, or hitting skills.

08-25-2010, 04:47 PM	#26
Biggio509 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,027	One other thing is that local revenues are subject to revenue sharing while national revenues are not. I wonder if by expanding the financial system if they mean bringing back some features that were dropped. I do not remember which version but I do remember some time way back you offer promotions to increase attendance. You had some kind of budget for promotions and the more attendance it drew the more it cost. I am not sure if there were other features like that I have forgotten.

08-25-2010, 06:20 PM	#27
68pirate Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 85	I took the survey, and selected nothing from the feature list. If those are the things I have to look forward to in 12 I'll stick with 11. And I've purchased every year since I started this game with version 8. Of course, I only play historical. I could care less about any eye candy. Understandably, others may be excited by the possibilities on that list, but not me. I would like to see more user control/direction for the a.i. on such items as pinch hitting depth chart, roster composition, bullpen usage (as mentioned in another thread, innings are not spread around right now and slot placement has no effect). I would love to see the depth chart scrapped completely in favor of another system based on percentage of games started instead of start every "x" number of games. Starting pitchers should be set up that way also, so that starts can be spread over 10 different pitchers if the user wishes, not just 1 or 2 spot starters. I could go on and on...and would especially love to see an option to follow real life transactions and lineups. Regardless of the direction they take, OOTP remains my favorite game and I will continue to play. I just might have to skip 12 and wait until 13.

08-26-2010, 11:22 AM	#33
rudoggy Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In my own little world Posts: 430	I think a lot more explanation about what this "on-line" experience is should have been included in the survey. I also, would want to have no part in it. I got into this game for specific reasons. I could play MVP or frontpage if i wanted a pretty game with meaningless numbers. I liked ootp for its dedication to getting the numbers right. I just think this is a big branch off from the main product. And IMO, the main product, while great, still is not done. I don't like the idea of resources put towards something else, until the current game is as good as it can be.

08-26-2010, 01:42 PM	#38
Stealcompany Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 291	I want a new mac version of Inside the Park!

08-26-2010, 05:05 PM	#40
Biggio509 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,027	For me I am not sure what better graphics would add. FM2010 is kind of fun to watch with a 3D sim but there are fewer decisions to be made. I am not sure if it really expands the market by having graphics. The only way I think to expand the market is completely overhaul the game into something like FPS Baseball of the old Seirra company. In that you could choose the pitches for a pitcher and the location and I think you choose the type of swing for the batter. So you were not just choosing the manager's strategy. In those days, this was state of the art. So I am not sure if OOTP starts to compete with MLB The Show or any other console type game when you actually swing the bat and use buttons or the stick to throw a pitch and move the guy to catch a ball and choose which base to throw to. I think something more like the old Front Page Sports might be the solution to more graphics but I am very skeptical if as to if it is nothing more than sunk costs. FM2010's game play would be easier to do but you still do not get out the NFL Headcoach, Front Office manager, etc. type games. In comparison OOTP is miles ahead of any of these other than graphics but does not have the marketing nor console versions to be on the same level of recognition.