Some guy on steroids hits 600 HR

[LeiterFanatic]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

Damn, I was hoping this was a Hank Aaron thread. Or Willie Mays. Or Mickey Mantle, but I guess he never quite got there.

Thank you Bob Costas.

[Chicagofan76]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

I think sooner or later Baseball writers will wise up and realize steriods don't help players hit homeruns and start to allow these players in.

steroids takes a 5 hr SS and turns him into a 30 hr SS ala Jose Valentin, steroids takes a warning track out into a 4th row seats 3 run blast. its dumb to think that steroids didnt help barry bonds go from 35 hr a yr while only batting .285 to a 73 hr 250 BB .330 hitter

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

steroids takes a 5 hr SS and turns him into a 30 hr SS ala Jose Valentin, steroids takes a warning track out into a 4th row seats 3 run blast. its dumb to think that steroids didnt help barry bonds go from 35 hr a yr while only batting .285 to a 73 hr 250 BB .330 hitter

Got to agree with this. More muscle strength = more bat swing power = longer ball distance. One cannot deny this rationally. Sure, it takes skill to hit a HR. But if you have that skill, more muscle power as a result of taking steroids is going to make more of your fly balls reach the seats. Period.

As this lady says, "Are there really still people out there who think performance-enhancing drugs don't affect home run totals?":
Congratulations, Alex Rodriguez, on HR No. 444

[jaxmagicman]

And where is your proof other than just what people have told you?

I have scientific proof that shows steriods does not equal more homeruns. You show me once ounce of scientific proof that Steroids equal more homeruns and I will stop. Everyone knows steroids equal bigger muscles. But science proves it is wrist speed and momentum that hits more homeruns not muscles.

Allvoices.com - External Link

[jaxmagicman]

Straight from the link:

There is no evidence that steroid use has altered home-run hitting and those who argue otherwise are profoundly ignorant of the statistics of home runs, the physics of baseball, and of the physiological effects of steroids.

[JWay]

Originally Posted by Left-handed Badger

Booze isnt widely thought of as a PED.

I think steroids as we know them came about post-WWII, if I remember. So, you could probably make an argument on AAron on that (2nd half of his career at least). Ruth, would be a colossal reach.

I do believe Mays admitted to stimulants (I think greenies or something) so that might be the way for your argument to proceed.

I don't know one way or another, but there are researchers that believe some for of enhancing supplements were around since the beginning of the Greek Olympics.

Babe drank lots of booze, but that doesn't mean he wasn't taking lots of anything else.

[JWay]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Got to agree with this. More muscle strength = more bat swing power = longer ball distance. One cannot deny this rationally. Sure, it takes skill to hit a HR. But if you have that skill, more muscle power as a result of taking steroids is going to make more of your fly balls reach the seats. Period.

As this lady says, "Are there really still people out there who think performance-enhancing drugs don't affect home run totals?":
Congratulations, Alex Rodriguez, on HR No. 444

Steroids don't = more strength. They equal ability for body to recovery quicker, and give it ability to put on more body mass. They aren't magic pills. Players still have to work their asses off, and Barry Bonds worked his ass off. Steroids allowed him to work harder than everyone else, perhaps prevented some injuries. He still had to work harder than the rest of the league to gain his strength.

Steroids comes down to this: Do you enjoy seeing your best and favorite players playing at their highest level all the time, or do you enjoy seeing them in their street clothes as they ride the DL? Do you enjoy seeing them lead the way for 15 years, or do you want to wonder what could have been after 7 years.

Perhaps you do enjoy seeing players break down. I'd rather not, call me silly.

[Left-handed Badger]

I know all the theories on recovering quicker. And players do seem to play 3-4 years longer now (which could be argued with more knowledeable conditioning)


However, it sure seems we have a lot more players going on the DL, than even 15-20 years ago. Seems playing 150 games a year for 15 years, and playing 110 games a year for 20 years is kind of a wash in playing time.

[SWardle]

Originally Posted by JWay

I'm just shocked that so many people are confident that Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron were not on some version of PEDs. Steroids have been around forever.

Really? Shocked? People have this "things were always perfect back in the day" approach to just about everything.

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by JWay

Babe drank lots of booze, but that doesn't mean he wasn't taking lots of anything else.

And considering the culture of protecting stars's faults from the public that existed in his day has been dead almost as long as he has, you would think if there was dirt like that it'd be big news. Outside of him being a boozehound, nothing has come up.

Originally Posted by SWardle

Really? Shocked? People have this "things were always perfect back in the day" approach to just about everything.

It's almost on par to the broad brush application of "if it was done now, it was probably done then too!" on the other side.

[JWay]

Originally Posted by SWardle

Really? Shocked? People have this "things were always perfect back in the day" approach to just about everything.

I'm pretty young and naive I suppose

[JWay]

Joe Posnanski wrote a good article about it just today:

JPosnanski What if we are wrong again about steroids? Joe Posnanski Posts What If We Are Wrong Again About Steroids?

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by JWay

Joe Posnanski wrote a good article about it just today:

JPosnanski What if we are wrong again about steroids? Joe Posnanski Posts What If We Are Wrong Again About Steroids?

That article is just an explanation of the link I posted earlier. You didn't even read my post. I am hurt.

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

That article is just an explanation of the link I posted earlier. You didn't even read my post. I am hurt.

It happens more than you think.

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

It happens more than you think.

I know. But given a choice between you reading my posts and jway reading my posts, I would pick you reading them.

[Chicagofan76]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

And where is your proof other than just what people have told you?

I have scientific proof that shows steriods does not equal more homeruns. You show me once ounce of scientific proof that Steroids equal more homeruns and I will stop. Everyone knows steroids equal bigger muscles. But science proves it is wrist speed and momentum that hits more homeruns not muscles.

Allvoices.com - External Link

yes barry bonds, mark mcgwire, sosa, palmeiro conseco a fraud, were all naturally gifted athletes to begin with but they r not 60 hr 70 hr guys they r not 500 hr 600 hr 762 hr guys, u take a good player and make him stronger then he should be naturally and he will hit 500 foot hr's, he will not be tired in the dog days of august, he will play into his 40's when he should have retired at 35...why is it so many people from 92-2009 hit 50+ hr a sn or joined the 500 hr club compared top the 120 yrs prior to 92? smaller ballparks has nothing to do with it, juiced ball that wasnt juiced, why is it offense is down for the 1st time since 92,91? we will have the fewest amount of people hit 40 +_hr for the 1st time since 95
I never said steroids help u hit homeruns but they help u hit them farther.

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

yes barry bonds, mark mcgwire, sosa, palmeiro conseco a fraud, were all naturally gifted athletes to begin with but they r not 60 hr 70 hr guys they r not 500 hr 600 hr 762 hr guys, u take a good player and make him stronger then he should be naturally and he will hit 500 foot hr's, he will not be tired in the dog days of august, he will play into his 40's when he should have retired at 35...why is it so many people from 92-2009 hit 50+ hr a sn or joined the 500 hr club compared top the 120 yrs prior to 92? smaller ballparks has nothing to do with it, juiced ball that wasnt juiced, why is it offense is down for the 1st time since 92,91? we will have the fewest amount of people hit 40 +_hr for the 1st time since 95
I never said steroids help u hit homeruns but they help u hit them farther.

Most of your questions were answered in the article linked.

[Chicagofan76]

bull**** u probably think the twin towers were brought down by george bush also dont ya? i hate conspiracy theorists. face it steroids changed the game for the worse, not for the better. why dont u read a real article on what steroids does by a doctor not some reporter that needs to write a story. i did have several acclaimed reports on my pc but my pc crashed last night, whyen i find then again i will post them in here in a few days.

[JWay]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

That article is just an explanation of the link I posted earlier. You didn't even read my post. I am hurt.

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

bull**** u probably think the twin towers were brought down by george bush also dont ya? i hate conspiracy theorists. face it steroids changed the game for the worse, not for the better. why dont u read a real article on what steroids does by a doctor not some reporter that needs to write a story. i did have several acclaimed reports on my pc but my pc crashed last night, whyen i find then again i will post them in here in a few days.

The article was not written by a reporter. It was done by a statistician that has been doing it longer than I have been alive.

"Eric Walker has been a baseball statistical analyst for 30 years. For many of those, he was a freelance baseball radio reporter; working in a two-team market, he covered a full 162 games every year. At one time he had a daily 5-minute baseball "module" syndicated to 20 National Public Radio affiliates nationwide."