How can I make my fielders not be dumb?

hefalumps · 05-13-2003, 07:36 PM

Okay... here's the situation. Tie game between O's (me) and Yanks, bottom of the 9th. If the O's lose the game, they fall out of first place. Lots on the line, etc.

I start off the inning giving up a triple to Steve Sax. NOT good. Since his run is the only one that matters, I walk pinch hitter Don Mattingly and Don Slaught to load the bases and bring up some loser guy I'd never heard of with horrible stats/ratings, etc. Seems like the right move, eh?

I play my outfield in, since Sax on third is speedy and anything deep will score him anyway.

So what does loser guy do? Hits a groundball to my shortstop. Play by play makes it sound like it's a routine ground ball. Instead of throwing home for the force out, he throws to first and gets the out. I lose. Second place for me.

Not happy. My question is - is there something I could have done better to make my shortstop be smarter about that play? Is that kind of "do or die" logic built into OOTP5 for situations like that?

Thanks for any info anyone can offer!

Steve Kuffrey · 05-13-2003, 08:29 PM

Something that currently needs to be deepened, it is a known issue.

hefalumps · 05-13-2003, 08:30 PM

Thanks for the response Steve. Next time I'll just... well, I'll just start crying after I give up the triple.

Bears5122 · 05-13-2003, 08:58 PM

Yeah, I hate that too. I would have thought by now there'd be an option to go home.

akw4572 · 05-13-2003, 10:13 PM

you should have brought your infield in as well. This makes the infielders automatically throw home.

Eugene Church · 05-13-2003, 11:06 PM

In OOTP4 you could not play both "infield in" and "outfield in"...
You have to choose one or the other.

Does OOTP5 allow you to choose both "infield in" and "outfield in"?

blackrussian · 05-13-2003, 11:32 PM

how about this one for frustrating fielding/baserunning plays:

i have runners on 1st and 2nd and my pitcher up. no brainer. he's a B for sac bunt, so i bunt. the runner on 2nd has a B baserunning.

the 3Bman fields the bunt, since they were playing corners in and throws to THIRD, nailing the advancing baserunner. wow. and he wasnt that great of a fielder.

i know things like these do happen, but the frequency with which i see them is alarming. i bunt much less now, because ive had the lead runner nailed way too many times.

in general, id like to see more human control over baserunning and fielding decisions (which base to throw to from the OF, whether to send a runner home on a hit, etc). PbP more descriptive to the situation will help immensely. there have been situations when ive had a runner on 2nd, get a single, but the PbP doesnt specify which OF fields it...

v'

akw4572 · 05-13-2003, 11:54 PM

yeah........not to bring up another game, but diamond mind lets you choose which base to throw to, and if u want to advance a runner, etc.

Kelric · 05-14-2003, 12:43 AM

Another one that gets me is the fly ball to the OFer in the bottom of the 9th with a runner on third where my outfielder doesn't throw home...

Yes you probably won't get the guy, but at least TRY!

blynch10 · 05-14-2003, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kelric
Another one that gets me is the fly ball to the OFer in the bottom of the 9th with a runner on third where my outfielder doesn't throw home...

Yes you probably won't get the guy, but at least TRY!

Just changing some of the play by play text would help the frustration on most of the played out games. Just having the PBP say that the outfileder is throwing home and the runner makes it with a minute to spare would still be better than the guy never trying for the out.

draven085 · 05-14-2003, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by akw4572
yeah........not to bring up another game, but diamond mind lets you choose which base to throw to, and if u want to advance a runner, etc.

I recently switched over to OOTP from Diamond Mind, and this is the feature that I miss the most from DMB.

I also agree with other comments that the PbP should be altered to give a better description of exactly where the ball is hit and what the position of the runner is, so you have a better idea of when to send the guy and when to hold him.

Gastric ReFlux · 05-14-2003, 02:58 PM

Whenever any of my outfielders don't throw home on a play like that, I bench them for a week. They still haven't gotten the message.

Bravo 1/5 USHA · 05-14-2003, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by akw4572
you should have brought your infield in as well. This makes the infielders automatically throw home.

Actually, as well as unfortunately, that is not true. I meant to post the same thing here but found someone beat me to it. I had the same situation....bases loaded, no out, bottom of the 9th, tie game....I bring the infield in purposely to shoot for home.....I get EXACTLY what I want...a tapper to the mound....my P hops off, scoops it up quickly....AND THROWS TO FIRST! ....for the love of God......So, infield in DID NOT HELP.

hefalumps · 05-15-2003, 12:41 PM

I had another close game/bottom ninth situation - this time with runners on 1st and 3rd, one out, and we were leading 5-4. Again, that annoying Steve Sax was on 3rd. So I brought my infield in, not wanting to count on making the double play to end the game.

What happened... I got a ground ball to second. So I'm hoping he throws home, right? Well, he doesn't... he throws to first. But here's the thing: Sax stayed at third. I guess my 2B looked him back or whatever since he was playing in. The runner on 1st moved to 2nd though... so I was still in lots of trouble (winning run in scoring position and all). But I got a pop up to end the game, and I won this one.

So infield in DID have a positive result for me, just not the one I was looking for. But it COULD have been a negative one.

I too think the "which base to throw to" and some more depth in the in-game managing would really add to OOTP.

GuruB · 05-15-2003, 01:10 PM

I also don't use Outfield in, even in that situation... have lost a few because of it...but less than IF

What I think happens, is that the game plays the outfield in ONLY...and keeps the IF at normal depth, which means they will not go home on any GB that's not to the pitcher...

that's my theory... now see if you can shred it to pieces

Mark

jgross68 · 05-15-2003, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hefalumps
I had another close game/bottom ninth situation - this time with runners on 1st and 3rd, one out, and we were leading 5-4. Again, that annoying Steve Sax was on 3rd. So I brought my infield in, not wanting to count on making the double play to end the game.

What happened... I got a ground ball to second. So I'm hoping he throws home, right? Well, he doesn't... he throws to first. But here's the thing: Sax stayed at third. I guess my 2B looked him back or whatever since he was playing in. The runner on 1st moved to 2nd though... so I was still in lots of trouble (winning run in scoring position and all). But I got a pop up to end the game, and I won this one.

So infield in DID have a positive result for me, just not the one I was looking for. But it COULD have been a negative one.

I too think the "which base to throw to" and some more depth in the in-game managing would really add to OOTP.

Looking the runner back at third is reasonable in that situation, but letting the runner on first advance and taking away the force out doesn't make much sense there.

JML · 05-15-2003, 02:42 PM

My preference would be to make the AI better in these situations, rather than me deciding which base to throw to, since IRL a manager doesn't have that luxury.... he has to hope that his players know where they need to throw the ball. This could add a lot to the in-game play if there were some sort of "intelligence" rating for players. This could develop as a player gains experience. Players with a low rating might throw to the wrong base or miss the cutoff man more frequently, where as a veteran with smarts would rarely do these things. It would be cool if the pbp mentioned that "Joe Blow forgot there was only one out and went to first... " or "the leftfielder airmailed the throw to home, so Bobby Bobson gets to second easily."

ctorg · 05-15-2003, 02:50 PM

I'd kind of like it if the game asked you whether the fielder should throw home, throw to first, etc. That would take some of the decision making away from the somewhat error-prone AI. Of course, the AI would have to be programmed to recognize situations in which it would throw home, too.

Gastric ReFlux · 05-15-2003, 03:06 PM

Seeing how the one-week benchings have failed to teach my outfielders that they should always make a desperate throw to home on a flyball if it could win the other team the game, I have now gone to sterner measures.

All futher infractions will result in broken legs for the outfielders with season-ending severity.

I will let you all know if this has any success on the AI players.

Bravo 1/5 USHA · 05-15-2003, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gastric ReFlux
Seeing how the one-week benchings have failed to teach my outfielders that they should always make a desperate throw to home on a flyball if it could win the other team the game, I have now gone to sterner measures.

All futher infractions will result in broken legs for the outfielders with season-ending severity.

I will let you all know if this has any success on the AI players.

ROFLMAO!!!!

05-13-2003, 07:36 PM	#1
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,379	How can I make my fielders not be dumb? Okay... here's the situation. Tie game between O's (me) and Yanks, bottom of the 9th. If the O's lose the game, they fall out of first place. Lots on the line, etc. I start off the inning giving up a triple to Steve Sax. NOT good. Since his run is the only one that matters, I walk pinch hitter Don Mattingly and Don Slaught to load the bases and bring up some loser guy I'd never heard of with horrible stats/ratings, etc. Seems like the right move, eh? I play my outfield in, since Sax on third is speedy and anything deep will score him anyway. So what does loser guy do? Hits a groundball to my shortstop. Play by play makes it sound like it's a routine ground ball. Instead of throwing home for the force out, he throws to first and gets the out. I lose. Second place for me. Not happy. My question is - is there something I could have done better to make my shortstop be smarter about that play? Is that kind of "do or die" logic built into OOTP5 for situations like that? Thanks for any info anyone can offer!

05-13-2003, 08:29 PM	#2
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,023	Something that currently needs to be deepened, it is a known issue. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

05-13-2003, 11:32 PM	#7
blackrussian All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 954	how about this one for frustrating fielding/baserunning plays: i have runners on 1st and 2nd and my pitcher up. no brainer. he's a B for sac bunt, so i bunt. the runner on 2nd has a B baserunning. the 3Bman fields the bunt, since they were playing corners in and throws to THIRD, nailing the advancing baserunner. wow. and he wasnt that great of a fielder. i know things like these do happen, but the frequency with which i see them is alarming. i bunt much less now, because ive had the lead runner nailed way too many times. in general, id like to see more human control over baserunning and fielding decisions (which base to throw to from the OF, whether to send a runner home on a hit, etc). PbP more descriptive to the situation will help immensely. there have been situations when ive had a runner on 2nd, get a single, but the PbP doesnt specify which OF fields it... v' __________________ v'

05-15-2003, 01:10 PM	#15
GuruB Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 65	My Theory I also don't use Outfield in, even in that situation... have lost a few because of it...but less than IF What I think happens, is that the game plays the outfield in ONLY...and keeps the IF at normal depth, which means they will not go home on any GB that's not to the pitcher... that's my theory... now see if you can shred it to pieces Mark

05-15-2003, 02:50 PM	#18
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I'd kind of like it if the game asked you whether the fielder should throw home, throw to first, etc. That would take some of the decision making away from the somewhat error-prone AI. Of course, the AI would have to be programmed to recognize situations in which it would throw home, too. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

05-13-2003, 08:30 PM	#3
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,379	Thanks for the response Steve. Next time I'll just... well, I'll just start crying after I give up the triple.

05-13-2003, 08:58 PM	#4
Bears5122 All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 847	Yeah, I hate that too. I would have thought by now there'd be an option to go home.

05-13-2003, 10:13 PM	#5
akw4572 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,601	you should have brought your infield in as well. This makes the infielders automatically throw home.

05-13-2003, 11:06 PM	#6
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 36,068	In OOTP4 you could not play both "infield in" and "outfield in"... You have to choose one or the other. Does OOTP5 allow you to choose both "infield in" and "outfield in"?

05-13-2003, 11:54 PM	#8
akw4572 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,601	yeah........not to bring up another game, but diamond mind lets you choose which base to throw to, and if u want to advance a runner, etc.

05-14-2003, 12:43 AM	#9
Kelric Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Greater Boston Area Posts: 3,992	Another one that gets me is the fly ball to the OFer in the bottom of the 9th with a runner on third where my outfielder doesn't throw home... Yes you probably won't get the guy, but at least TRY!

05-14-2003, 02:58 PM	#12
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	Whenever any of my outfielders don't throw home on a play like that, I bench them for a week. They still haven't gotten the message.

05-15-2003, 12:41 PM	#14
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,379	I had another close game/bottom ninth situation - this time with runners on 1st and 3rd, one out, and we were leading 5-4. Again, that annoying Steve Sax was on 3rd. So I brought my infield in, not wanting to count on making the double play to end the game. What happened... I got a ground ball to second. So I'm hoping he throws home, right? Well, he doesn't... he throws to first. But here's the thing: Sax stayed at third. I guess my 2B looked him back or whatever since he was playing in. The runner on 1st moved to 2nd though... so I was still in lots of trouble (winning run in scoring position and all). But I got a pop up to end the game, and I won this one. So infield in DID have a positive result for me, just not the one I was looking for. But it COULD have been a negative one. I too think the "which base to throw to" and some more depth in the in-game managing would really add to OOTP.

05-15-2003, 02:42 PM	#17
JML Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The act or process of locating. Posts: 2,154	My preference would be to make the AI better in these situations, rather than me deciding which base to throw to, since IRL a manager doesn't have that luxury.... he has to hope that his players know where they need to throw the ball. This could add a lot to the in-game play if there were some sort of "intelligence" rating for players. This could develop as a player gains experience. Players with a low rating might throw to the wrong base or miss the cutoff man more frequently, where as a veteran with smarts would rarely do these things. It would be cool if the pbp mentioned that "Joe Blow forgot there was only one out and went to first... " or "the leftfielder airmailed the throw to home, so Bobby Bobson gets to second easily."

05-15-2003, 03:06 PM	#19
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	Seeing how the one-week benchings have failed to teach my outfielders that they should always make a desperate throw to home on a flyball if it could win the other team the game, I have now gone to sterner measures. All futher infractions will result in broken legs for the outfielders with season-ending severity. I will let you all know if this has any success on the AI players.