The official World Cup 2010 thread... - Page 17

turdfurgeson · 06-20-2010, 10:45 AM

A little late to the party on the USA getting screwed discussion. But did anyone else think the penalty that the US was awarded that earned the kick was a little light too? That is what kept me from being too upset about the call. I was way more upset about the handball in the first half that earned the second yellow card.

I think that I am a pretty good representative of what the average American experience with soccer is. I played 12 years growing up, never getting to any high levels but always enjoyed it. I might passively watch it when I catch a game on TV. I know most the rules, but am a little ignorant to some of the nuances of the culture and strategy of the highest levels.

That being said, the thing that usually distracts my enjoyment and keeps me from really becoming a fan and searching out games to watch is the flopping.

I am sure this is a complaint heard alot by educated fans from the more casual. But this issue stands out way more to me than anything involving the vuvuzela complaints.

The worst for me so far that had me turning off the TV and doing something else the rest of the morning was the red card penalty in the South Africa game against the goalie. Watching it live, and again on the replay I understood that the letter of the rules dictated a foul to be called. But watching the play it looked like the goalie was making an honest effort to stretch out to play the ball. Their feet barely made contact but the player flailed through the air and then roll across the ground like he had been shot out of a cannon. It is one thing if the goalie had made an aggressive defense, missed badly and blew the player up.

I think I can understand how flopping has become an effective strategy. The low goal scoring environment makes set plays a good strategy to get scoring chances. It amazes me that so much responsibility for controlling the game falls on one referee. That was really highlighted for me when the female college player in the US went on a rampage a couple years ago throwing elbows, pulling hair and taking players to the ground away from the ball.

The best analogy I can come up with is the call for blocking/charging in the NBA. No two free throws are all that important over the course of a game, so a rewarded flop or missed call will not have as much game changing impact. But the referees will also swallow their whistle in critical times if the play was not so blatant. If the refs have done their job for the better part of the game, then what players can and can't get away with will have been established. But in soccer a goal can make a huge difference, so players flop to gain advantage and writhe around in pain to sell it to the referee and force a call.

I think in the big picture, it does not matter what casual fans outside the popularity rings of soccer care. It is the most popular sport in the world, so the complaints of an average mid level interest fan do not really matter.

Just wanted to give my impressions, and if the more hard core fans have some insight into my thought I would really like to hear them.

bababui · 06-20-2010, 11:06 AM

TF..dont throw out the baby with the bathwater!! In any endeavor manged by humans there will be errors and mistakes. But, overall, this has been a very close and competitive World Cup. Nations like New Zealand and North Korea are playing very well. Cheating nations like the Italians are hated. Hope you dont give up on the sport.

bababui · 06-20-2010, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlyons

World Cup qualification takes forever already. Adding another round of playin matches would make it even worse.

I would replace the current playins with the new system. Since its only 2 matches nothing should change.

TGH-Adfabre · 06-20-2010, 11:25 AM

I kept thinking of the flop issue while watching the NBA finals, I am convinced basketball players flop far more than soccer. I know this is an exageration, it seemd like every remotely contested shot was followed by flailing arms, stunned looks at the ref and other antics. I understand some of the reasons for it, I have zero authority to change it and it is anoying as hell.

mlyons · 06-20-2010, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

The Europeans deserve to lose a place or two in Brazil 2014. They have been horrific.

Fixed that for you.

The African nations might not be getting good results, but at least they look like they care. Nobody's looked more pathetic than France, England, and Italy.

bababui · 06-20-2010, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlyons

Fixed that for you.

The African nations might not be getting good results, but at least they look like they care. Nobody's looked more pathetic than France, England, and Italy.

Id like to do international qualifying if possible. Then these arguments would go away.

Ragnar · 06-20-2010, 12:13 PM

I kind of agree with both of you guys regarding the African teams and qualifying.

I don't think the African teams are as bad as some make them out to be. But I would like a system better suited to make it more likely the best teams get in.

bababui · 06-20-2010, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar

I kind of agree with both of you guys regarding the African teams and qualifying.

I don't think the African teams are as bad as some make them out to be. But I would like a system better suited to make it more likely the best teams get in.

There are ups and downs always in sports but qualifying places are dictated by yesterdays results. It might be cool if there were a worldwide home and away tourney to get down to the final 32. There would be far fewer matches so the players would be fresher.

canadiancreed · 06-20-2010, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

There are ups and downs always in sports but qualifying places are dictated by yesterdays results. It might be cool if there were a worldwide home and away tourney to get down to the final 32. There would be far fewer matches so the players would be fresher.

416 matches for each team to determine who would make the top 32 would result in fewer matches? You might have to elaborate on that because your math sounds way off.

bababui · 06-20-2010, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadiancreed

416 matches for each team to determine who would make the top 32 would result in fewer matches? You might have to elaborate on that because your math sounds way off.

Uruguay played 20 qualifying matches.

If we start with say 180 nations competing for places in the final 32 and, with seeding, teams now played a home and away elimination series rather than group play, there would be far fewer qualifying matches.

Jordan · 06-20-2010, 04:10 PM

Looks like Im right about France again. The players refused to train today cuz they're pissed Anelka got kicked off the team.

God I'd love to see South Africa just route them

bababui · 06-20-2010, 04:12 PM

Although France is the one nation that owns Brazil.

Jordan · 06-20-2010, 04:48 PM

I know. It makes me sad. I was so into Brazil in 98 that I was so mad when France beat them in the final. I experienced happiness in 02, only to be brought back down to earth by France in 06 again.

but since Zidane isnt around anymore, I have to question how much owning France will do of Brazil anymore

low · 06-20-2010, 07:13 PM

Domenech needs to go. Why this guy is still in charge of France is beyond me.

Do any of you guys get pissed off just looking at him? Seriously, just look at him for a few seconds... he looks like a total ass. Just seeing his picture makes me want to punch him in the face.

Russ · 06-20-2010, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by low

Domenech needs to go. Why this guy is still in charge of France is beyond me.

Do any of you guys get pissed off just looking at him? Seriously, just look at him for a few seconds... he looks like a total ass. Just seeing his picture makes me want to punch him in the face.

He's destroying France and I kind of like that.

ukhotstove · 06-20-2010, 07:28 PM

End of the day the French players are playing for their country, it shouldn't matter if they don't like the coach or his methods their representing their country the greatest honor a person can have.

If I was Domenech I'd have a squad meeting tomorrow and tell them to give their all in the last match not for him but for their country and if there were any of them who didn't want to play they could go home straight away, only people the players are letting down are their countrymen/fans If I was a French fan I'd hope none of them ever played for France again even if it meant not qualifying for future tournaments.

Jordan · 06-21-2010, 12:21 AM

So, was anyone else not that outraged at the Kaka red? I certainly saw it as comeuppance since Brazil spent the last fifteen minutes flopping like they were shot. For Keita to simulate getting hit in the face was quite funny to me as a result.

Kaka didn't have to elbow him in the sternum anyways, a forearm wouldve done, and I dont think that was a forearm.

It was too bad the Ivory Coast came to the game so late, cuz they were no where to be found for about 75 mins.

LFC1892 · 06-21-2010, 08:22 AM

It didnt deserve a red, but Kaka shouldnt have made the initial contact anyway. I see it as justice though, for the blatant double handball by Fabiano and the Ref's reaction.

Also loved to see Dunga with his head about to explode late in that 2nd half.

LFC1892 · 06-21-2010, 08:25 AM

Actually, concerning the Fabiano goal, I'm not that surprised. The referee was French. It's apparent they can't play OR referee!

Ragnar · 06-21-2010, 12:43 PM

Did anyone think that guy was off sides on the Chili goal?

What do they go by? Just feet or any part of the body?

06-20-2010, 10:45 AM	#321
turdfurgeson Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 421	A little late to the party on the USA getting screwed discussion. But did anyone else think the penalty that the US was awarded that earned the kick was a little light too? That is what kept me from being too upset about the call. I was way more upset about the handball in the first half that earned the second yellow card. I think that I am a pretty good representative of what the average American experience with soccer is. I played 12 years growing up, never getting to any high levels but always enjoyed it. I might passively watch it when I catch a game on TV. I know most the rules, but am a little ignorant to some of the nuances of the culture and strategy of the highest levels. That being said, the thing that usually distracts my enjoyment and keeps me from really becoming a fan and searching out games to watch is the flopping. I am sure this is a complaint heard alot by educated fans from the more casual. But this issue stands out way more to me than anything involving the vuvuzela complaints. The worst for me so far that had me turning off the TV and doing something else the rest of the morning was the red card penalty in the South Africa game against the goalie. Watching it live, and again on the replay I understood that the letter of the rules dictated a foul to be called. But watching the play it looked like the goalie was making an honest effort to stretch out to play the ball. Their feet barely made contact but the player flailed through the air and then roll across the ground like he had been shot out of a cannon. It is one thing if the goalie had made an aggressive defense, missed badly and blew the player up. I think I can understand how flopping has become an effective strategy. The low goal scoring environment makes set plays a good strategy to get scoring chances. It amazes me that so much responsibility for controlling the game falls on one referee. That was really highlighted for me when the female college player in the US went on a rampage a couple years ago throwing elbows, pulling hair and taking players to the ground away from the ball. The best analogy I can come up with is the call for blocking/charging in the NBA. No two free throws are all that important over the course of a game, so a rewarded flop or missed call will not have as much game changing impact. But the referees will also swallow their whistle in critical times if the play was not so blatant. If the refs have done their job for the better part of the game, then what players can and can't get away with will have been established. But in soccer a goal can make a huge difference, so players flop to gain advantage and writhe around in pain to sell it to the referee and force a call. I think in the big picture, it does not matter what casual fans outside the popularity rings of soccer care. It is the most popular sport in the world, so the complaints of an average mid level interest fan do not really matter. Just wanted to give my impressions, and if the more hard core fans have some insight into my thought I would really like to hear them. Last edited by turdfurgeson; 06-20-2010 at 10:48 AM.

06-20-2010, 11:25 AM	#324
TGH-Adfabre Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,601	I kept thinking of the flop issue while watching the NBA finals, I am convinced basketball players flop far more than soccer. I know this is an exageration, it seemd like every remotely contested shot was followed by flailing arms, stunned looks at the ref and other antics. I understand some of the reasons for it, I have zero authority to change it and it is anoying as hell. __________________ You mock me, therefore I am My wife

06-20-2010, 12:13 PM	#327
Ragnar Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,565	I kind of agree with both of you guys regarding the African teams and qualifying. I don't think the African teams are as bad as some make them out to be. But I would like a system better suited to make it more likely the best teams get in.

06-20-2010, 04:10 PM	#331
Jordan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chi Suburbs now... Posts: 2,011	Looks like Im right about France again. The players refused to train today cuz they're pissed Anelka got kicked off the team. God I'd love to see South Africa just route them

06-20-2010, 04:48 PM	#333
Jordan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chi Suburbs now... Posts: 2,011	I know. It makes me sad. I was so into Brazil in 98 that I was so mad when France beat them in the final. I experienced happiness in 02, only to be brought back down to earth by France in 06 again. but since Zidane isnt around anymore, I have to question how much owning France will do of Brazil anymore

06-20-2010, 07:13 PM	#334
low Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 6,237	Domenech needs to go. Why this guy is still in charge of France is beyond me. Do any of you guys get pissed off just looking at him? Seriously, just look at him for a few seconds... he looks like a total ass. Just seeing his picture makes me want to punch him in the face.

06-20-2010, 07:28 PM	#336
ukhotstove Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: North of England Gods Country Posts: 7,175	End of the day the French players are playing for their country, it shouldn't matter if they don't like the coach or his methods their representing their country the greatest honor a person can have. If I was Domenech I'd have a squad meeting tomorrow and tell them to give their all in the last match not for him but for their country and if there were any of them who didn't want to play they could go home straight away, only people the players are letting down are their countrymen/fans If I was a French fan I'd hope none of them ever played for France again even if it meant not qualifying for future tournaments.

06-21-2010, 12:21 AM	#337
Jordan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chi Suburbs now... Posts: 2,011	So, was anyone else not that outraged at the Kaka red? I certainly saw it as comeuppance since Brazil spent the last fifteen minutes flopping like they were shot. For Keita to simulate getting hit in the face was quite funny to me as a result. Kaka didn't have to elbow him in the sternum anyways, a forearm wouldve done, and I dont think that was a forearm. It was too bad the Ivory Coast came to the game so late, cuz they were no where to be found for about 75 mins.

06-21-2010, 08:22 AM	#338
LFC1892 All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Global Posts: 963	It didnt deserve a red, but Kaka shouldnt have made the initial contact anyway. I see it as justice though, for the blatant double handball by Fabiano and the Ref's reaction. Also loved to see Dunga with his head about to explode late in that 2nd half.

06-21-2010, 08:25 AM	#339
LFC1892 All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Global Posts: 963	Actually, concerning the Fabiano goal, I'm not that surprised. The referee was French. It's apparent they can't play OR referee!

06-21-2010, 12:43 PM	#340
Ragnar Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,565	Did anyone think that guy was off sides on the Chili goal? What do they go by? Just feet or any part of the body?