rookies turning sour...im sick of it

llmolsonll · 04-21-2010, 10:31 PM

Hi folks,

i started playing OOTP with the tenth version and find the samne issue in version 11 : my highly rated draftees all turn sour the next year or two years later. In version X, it took two years, in XI, they go down before the second year...I cant figured out why : i have turned down talent change randomness now to 66, my rookies all get a lot of playing time, my coaches are the best available. Im picking up guys with great intelligence and work ethics too. Scouting budgets are huge...

It is so frustrating to see my 7/7/9/8/7 guy go down to a bunch of 5s...or my 8/8/8 pitcher go down to 4/5/5...Same story every year with all the top rookies. The bonus in OOTPXI is on top of seeing rooks go down, i waste signing bonus money...Awesome!

What am i doing wrong?? How do you guys manage to make a few great rookie "survive"? What is strange is that players drafted by the AI can progress nicely and stay great while mine turn bad, cant figure it out.

Malleus Dei · 04-21-2010, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by llmolsonll

What am i doing wrong?? How do you guys manage to make a few great rookie "survive"? What is strange is that players drafted by the AI can progress nicely and stay great while mine turn bad, cant figure it out.

Either turn scouting off or get a legendary one, and dial randomness down to about 15.

gpellis · 04-21-2010, 10:59 PM

Yeah, I don't have much to add in terms of how you can find a good one, but in my test run, I found a SUPERB closer in the first round, late first round. He actually ended up being my setup man, then eventually an All-Star closer each year, racking up 45-50 saves each season. He came out rated as 5 stars and stayed there. he was great his first year as well.

actionjackson · 04-21-2010, 11:29 PM

Keep experimenting with settings until you find the combination that's closest to what you want, understanding that you'll never get it perfect. That means every setting in the Game Setup. Find out what they do. Find out what results from using them. Stumble and fumble your way to what you want. Test, test, test. You'll get there. Oh, and work that manual over until you've got it memorized back to front. J/K

ike121212 · 04-21-2010, 11:49 PM

Take a look at the draft pool with scouting off sometime. There's a lot less talent in non-feeder leagues than most people assume. If your prospects are tanking that hard, that fast, there probably wasn't much potential there in the first place.

DanP · 04-22-2010, 12:00 AM

I guess the question I have to ask is...what's "realistic"? I've honestly never tinkered with the randomness settings.

Just wondering what those of you who have made alterations consider to be most realistic, provided scouting is used. The real MLB draft is pretty much a crap shoot, but there are a few guys per year who you can pretty much depend on being important contributors.

PhillieFever · 04-22-2010, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by llmolsonll

Hi folks,

i started playing OOTP with the tenth version and find the samne issue in version 11 : my highly rated draftees all turn sour the next year or two years later. In version X, it took two years, in XI, they go down before the second year...I cant figured out why : i have turned down talent change randomness now to 66, my rookies all get a lot of playing time, my coaches are the best available. Im picking up guys with great intelligence and work ethics too. Scouting budgets are huge...

It is so frustrating to see my 7/7/9/8/7 guy go down to a bunch of 5s...or my 8/8/8 pitcher go down to 4/5/5...Same story every year with all the top rookies. The bonus in OOTPXI is on top of seeing rooks go down, i waste signing bonus money...Awesome!

What am i doing wrong?? How do you guys manage to make a few great rookie "survive"? What is strange is that players drafted by the AI can progress nicely and stay great while mine turn bad, cant figure it out.

Welcome to the world of big league baseball. Have you ever looked at MLB draft results? The first round is littered with players you've never even heard of year after year, guys who at the time were labeled "Can't miss" guess what, they miss, all the time. Don't get frustrated, because for every early round bust, there's the 30th round pick who turns into an everyday player. Below, you'll find the entire first round of the 2000 MLB draft, of the 30 picks made, just 2 were all stars, Adrian Gonzalez, and Chase Utley. Meanwhile, in that same draft, Cliff Lee was a 4th rounder, Grady Sizemore 3rd round, Brandon Webb 8th round, Mike Napoil and Rich Harden 17th round, Jason Bey 22nd round, Nate McClouth 25th round, Ian Kinsler and Adam LaRoche 29th round. Anyway, here's the 1st round of the 2000 MLB draft

steelerz · 04-22-2010, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Either turn scouting off or get a legendary one, and dial randomness down to about 15.

Is that what u have ur randomness set too.. or r u just giving a suggestion??

MrEndshiftresign · 04-22-2010, 02:42 AM

I agree with PhillieFever...the MLB Draft IRL isn't like the NBA or NFL Draft, where everyone drafted in the first round plays (or warms the bench) right away, so you have a good idea early on who's going to be a star and who's going to be a bust. 'Most everyone has to pass through the minors, and a lot of things can happen - injuries, a sudden case of bad attitude, too many good players at a certain position, etc. Remember that this is the only professional sport where you've got two top-overall draft picks who never made it to the big leagues - Brien Taylor and Steve Chilcott. (Did I miss anyone? Oh, right. Matt Bush from a few years ago.) Not to mention countless other top overall/Top 10 picks who turned out to be MLB busts, i.e. Shawn Abner, Bryan Bullington, etc.

Le Grande Orange · 04-22-2010, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

Welcome to the world of big league baseball. Have you ever looked at MLB draft results? The first round is littered with players you've never even heard of year after year, guys who at the time were labeled "Can't miss" guess what, they miss, all the time.

Heh, it's even worse if you go back to the time before the draft, when clubs would sign tons of players while only a few would ever develop into major leaguers.

The signings by the Baltimore Orioles from 1954-66 are a good example. The numbers come from an article published in The Sporting News on Feb. 18, 1967.

1954: 170 players signed; 2 eventually made it to the major leagues.
1955: 190 signed; 10 made it to the majors.
1956: 122; 4
1957: 114; 9
1958: 130; 6
1959: 72; 5
1960: 93; 4
1961: 77; 6
1962: 63; 4
1963: 69; 3
1964: 73; 2
1965: 64: 4
1966: 68; none as of the article's publishing.

The cost of signing those 1,305 players came to $2,932,000. The total player development cost, including the signing bonuses and running the minor leagues affiliates, came to $11,599,163. The most expensive year in that timespan was 1961, when the Orioles spent $1,233,584 on player development, including $463,000 in signing bonuses. The most the Orioles spent on a single signing bonus during those thirteen years was in 1958 when it paid $107,000 to sign Dave Nicholson.

DanP · 04-22-2010, 05:53 AM

BTW I just noticed a fictional minor league PITCHER with the nickname "The Greek God of Walks"

CharlieHustle6.12 · 04-22-2010, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

Welcome to the world of big league baseball. Have you ever looked at MLB draft results? The first round is littered with players you've never even heard of year after year, guys who at the time were labeled "Can't miss" guess what, they miss, all the time. Don't get frustrated, because for every early round bust, there's the 30th round pick who turns into an everyday player. Below, you'll find the entire first round of the 2000 MLB draft, of the 30 picks made, just 2 were all stars, Adrian Gonzalez, and Chase Utley. Meanwhile, in that same draft, Cliff Lee was a 4th rounder, Grady Sizemore 3rd round, Brandon Webb 8th round, Mike Napoil and Rich Harden 17th round, Jason Bey 22nd round, Nate McClouth 25th round, Ian Kinsler and Adam LaRoche 29th round. Anyway, here's the 1st round of the 2000 MLB draft

Agreed, but Adam Wainwright is very good.

jtb · 04-22-2010, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanP

BTW I just noticed a fictional minor league PITCHER with the nickname "The Greek God of Walks"

Hopefully at least he is one of the new two-way players.

zonk84 · 04-22-2010, 11:36 AM

I'm with those who say it's REALISTIC to have so many busts...

The Willie Greenes are a heck of lot more common than the Joe Mauers (and the Chad Greens are even more common than the Willie Greenes).

That said, I find I maximize my picks via looking at more than just pure talent ratings...

Work ethic and injury history play a HUGE role. I'll almost never - if ever - spend a 1st round pick on a player with lower than average work ethic. Ditto 'fragile' players.

Check the actual ratings, too - not just the talent. In other words - college players tend to be a better bet than HS players. A 10/10/10 HS with near non-existent current ratings is almost always a surefire flameout. I'd much rather grab a 6/8/8/ college player who can step right into Double A.

PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO YOUR PRIZED DRAFTEES!!! If you auto-setup or let the AI set up your minor leagues, you better make sure your prized draftee isn't 1)being rushed - playing at a level over his head kills his development, 2)stuck behind a logjam - if you've got multiple prospects at the same position - the inverse of above... a prospect has mastered a level but is blocked, or 3)sitting on the bench in the minors.

If you value your highly rated, upper round draftees -- cultivating them requires both the care and time in picking out the right one AND paying attention to them and their development in your system.

Heck, I go so far as to shift around my best minor league coaches to "follow" my best prospects, I manually promote players, manually set minor league lineups, make sure they go on the DL when hurt, etc.

PhillieFever · 04-22-2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieHustle6.12

Agreed, but Adam Wainwright is very good.

Absolutely, one of the very few first rounders in that draft.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 04-22-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieHustle6.12

Agreed, but Adam Wainwright is very good.

Well sure, but for every guy like that, there's a team like Baltimore going, "Damn it, Beau Hale was a can't-miss prospect!"

hwy61 · 04-22-2010, 03:08 PM

Compared to the 2000 draft list it almost seems like too many top picks pan out in OOTP.

Really I think its important not to get to attached to any of your draft picks, but put everyone in the best position to succeed, in terms of proper Minor league level and good coaching.

My strategy is to draft players in the later rounds with great baserunning and defensive skills as those aren't susceptible to random talent changes. The most gratifying thing to me is when the late round picks become solid big leaguers.

beorn · 04-22-2010, 05:03 PM

I agree whole heartedly with Phillie Fever and zonk84. Although a lot of OOTP owners might prefer highly predictable draft prospects -- and they are welcome to use game setup to create such a league -- if anything, OOTP top prospects are unrealistically likely to hit it big, not the other way around.

Three things are at work here:
* Talent drops (and rises) which are even more likely for draftees out of high school
* Incorrect scouts -- like real life, even the best scout is far from always right
* Mishandling prospects once they are in your minor leagues... From what I have seen, this usually takes the form of advancing prospects too quickly.

I would suggest that, instead of investing too much of yourself into the draft itself, that you put the time and interest into your farm system, noting the players with some potential (regardless of when they were picked), making sure they don't move up too fast and lose their confidence during a disastrous season, and develop skills at the most appropriate positions. It also helps to maximize the number of young guys who might possibly develop the talent to make it and cull the ones who are getting on in age without showing potential. Conversely, though, keep enough good performers in the lineup to put up a respectable record, even if they are over-age and not destined for the majors; your minor league team doesn't need to win the title, but morale can get pretty low on a bottom feeding team, and that doesn't do much for player development. (These last two points are not hopelessly in conflict -- you can use 3-4 overage starters and load up your bench with low level draftees and very young free agents, and the occasional guy will start to show talent). Anyway, my point is that there is a lot of fun, realistic, effective stuff you can do with your minor leagues.

llmolsonll · 04-22-2010, 07:00 PM

of course most players turn out not to make it to the big league. But that doesnt explain why the AI's draftees dont go down the drain big time like mine do. With all the cash invested in scouting and coaching, i should have some result. I dont. If i sign foreign free agents, they actually live up to their ratings or even progress further. The problem is the players i draft myself...

Voros McCracken · 04-22-2010, 07:14 PM

I just started playing so take this as far from gospel, but so far I would suggest a happy medium between what your scouts think about a player and what OSA thinks. This seems to accomplish two things:

1) Makes it more likely your scouts ratings are legit.

2) Maybe allows you to sneak a guy your scout says is great until your next pick. If OSA doesn't like him much, you've got a decent chance of his sticking around a bit.

Between that and keeping a little bit of an eye on his stats and maybe you get somewhere. Also depending on how you have your potential ratings set, you should probably steer clear of any middle relievers unless they have an expected role as a starter. Seems to me accumulating relievers through other means than the draft is easy and they tend to fall down the draft board anyway. What's nice about that is that it kind of works the same as real life.

I mention all of these things because they are all mistakes I have already made.

Nothing like a little bit of trial and a whole lot of error.

04-21-2010, 10:31 PM	#1
llmolsonll Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 44	rookies turning sour...im sick of it Hi folks, i started playing OOTP with the tenth version and find the samne issue in version 11 : my highly rated draftees all turn sour the next year or two years later. In version X, it took two years, in XI, they go down before the second year...I cant figured out why : i have turned down talent change randomness now to 66, my rookies all get a lot of playing time, my coaches are the best available. Im picking up guys with great intelligence and work ethics too. Scouting budgets are huge... It is so frustrating to see my 7/7/9/8/7 guy go down to a bunch of 5s...or my 8/8/8 pitcher go down to 4/5/5...Same story every year with all the top rookies. The bonus in OOTPXI is on top of seeing rooks go down, i waste signing bonus money...Awesome! What am i doing wrong?? How do you guys manage to make a few great rookie "survive"? What is strange is that players drafted by the AI can progress nicely and stay great while mine turn bad, cant figure it out.

04-22-2010, 02:42 AM	#9
MrEndshiftresign Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Cavite, Philippines Posts: 173	I agree with PhillieFever...the MLB Draft IRL isn't like the NBA or NFL Draft, where everyone drafted in the first round plays (or warms the bench) right away, so you have a good idea early on who's going to be a star and who's going to be a bust. 'Most everyone has to pass through the minors, and a lot of things can happen - injuries, a sudden case of bad attitude, too many good players at a certain position, etc. Remember that this is the only professional sport where you've got two top-overall draft picks who never made it to the big leagues - Brien Taylor and Steve Chilcott. (Did I miss anyone? Oh, right. Matt Bush from a few years ago.) Not to mention countless other top overall/Top 10 picks who turned out to be MLB busts, i.e. Shawn Abner, Bryan Bullington, etc. __________________ "Damnation! Fine then, Get me current players, LIVING players. Scour the American League, the National League, the Negro League..." - C. Montgomery Burns Last edited by MrEndshiftresign; 04-22-2010 at 03:10 AM.

04-22-2010, 05:03 PM	#18
beorn All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: near Rochester, NY Posts: 1,269	I agree whole heartedly with Phillie Fever and zonk84. Although a lot of OOTP owners might prefer highly predictable draft prospects -- and they are welcome to use game setup to create such a league -- if anything, OOTP top prospects are unrealistically likely to hit it big, not the other way around. Three things are at work here: * Talent drops (and rises) which are even more likely for draftees out of high school * Incorrect scouts -- like real life, even the best scout is far from always right * Mishandling prospects once they are in your minor leagues... From what I have seen, this usually takes the form of advancing prospects too quickly. I would suggest that, instead of investing too much of yourself into the draft itself, that you put the time and interest into your farm system, noting the players with some potential (regardless of when they were picked), making sure they don't move up too fast and lose their confidence during a disastrous season, and develop skills at the most appropriate positions. It also helps to maximize the number of young guys who might possibly develop the talent to make it and cull the ones who are getting on in age without showing potential. Conversely, though, keep enough good performers in the lineup to put up a respectable record, even if they are over-age and not destined for the majors; your minor league team doesn't need to win the title, but morale can get pretty low on a bottom feeding team, and that doesn't do much for player development. (These last two points are not hopelessly in conflict -- you can use 3-4 overage starters and load up your bench with low level draftees and very young free agents, and the occasional guy will start to show talent). Anyway, my point is that there is a lot of fun, realistic, effective stuff you can do with your minor leagues. __________________ Commish of Dog Days Baseball Commish Pennant Chase Baseball League (PCBL) Commish and Blue Jays GM Extra Innings Baseball

04-21-2010, 10:59 PM	#3
gpellis Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 182	Yeah, I don't have much to add in terms of how you can find a good one, but in my test run, I found a SUPERB closer in the first round, late first round. He actually ended up being my setup man, then eventually an All-Star closer each year, racking up 45-50 saves each season. He came out rated as 5 stars and stayed there. he was great his first year as well.

04-21-2010, 11:29 PM	#4
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,179	Keep experimenting with settings until you find the combination that's closest to what you want, understanding that you'll never get it perfect. That means every setting in the Game Setup. Find out what they do. Find out what results from using them. Stumble and fumble your way to what you want. Test, test, test. You'll get there. Oh, and work that manual over until you've got it memorized back to front. J/K

04-21-2010, 11:49 PM	#5
ike121212 All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 938	Take a look at the draft pool with scouting off sometime. There's a lot less talent in non-feeder leagues than most people assume. If your prospects are tanking that hard, that fast, there probably wasn't much potential there in the first place.

04-22-2010, 12:00 AM	#6
DanP Bat Boy Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 18	I guess the question I have to ask is...what's "realistic"? I've honestly never tinkered with the randomness settings. Just wondering what those of you who have made alterations consider to be most realistic, provided scouting is used. The real MLB draft is pretty much a crap shoot, but there are a few guys per year who you can pretty much depend on being important contributors.

04-22-2010, 05:53 AM	#11
DanP Bat Boy Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 18	BTW I just noticed a fictional minor league PITCHER with the nickname "The Greek God of Walks"

04-22-2010, 11:36 AM	#14
zonk84 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 263	I'm with those who say it's REALISTIC to have so many busts... The Willie Greenes are a heck of lot more common than the Joe Mauers (and the Chad Greens are even more common than the Willie Greenes). That said, I find I maximize my picks via looking at more than just pure talent ratings... Work ethic and injury history play a HUGE role. I'll almost never - if ever - spend a 1st round pick on a player with lower than average work ethic. Ditto 'fragile' players. Check the actual ratings, too - not just the talent. In other words - college players tend to be a better bet than HS players. A 10/10/10 HS with near non-existent current ratings is almost always a surefire flameout. I'd much rather grab a 6/8/8/ college player who can step right into Double A. PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO YOUR PRIZED DRAFTEES!!! If you auto-setup or let the AI set up your minor leagues, you better make sure your prized draftee isn't 1)being rushed - playing at a level over his head kills his development, 2)stuck behind a logjam - if you've got multiple prospects at the same position - the inverse of above... a prospect has mastered a level but is blocked, or 3)sitting on the bench in the minors. If you value your highly rated, upper round draftees -- cultivating them requires both the care and time in picking out the right one AND paying attention to them and their development in your system. Heck, I go so far as to shift around my best minor league coaches to "follow" my best prospects, I manually promote players, manually set minor league lineups, make sure they go on the DL when hurt, etc.

04-22-2010, 03:08 PM	#17
hwy61 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 33	Compared to the 2000 draft list it almost seems like too many top picks pan out in OOTP. Really I think its important not to get to attached to any of your draft picks, but put everyone in the best position to succeed, in terms of proper Minor league level and good coaching. My strategy is to draft players in the later rounds with great baserunning and defensive skills as those aren't susceptible to random talent changes. The most gratifying thing to me is when the late round picks become solid big leaguers.

04-22-2010, 07:00 PM	#19
llmolsonll Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 44	of course most players turn out not to make it to the big league. But that doesnt explain why the AI's draftees dont go down the drain big time like mine do. With all the cash invested in scouting and coaching, i should have some result. I dont. If i sign foreign free agents, they actually live up to their ratings or even progress further. The problem is the players i draft myself...

04-22-2010, 07:14 PM	#20
Voros McCracken Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 46	I just started playing so take this as far from gospel, but so far I would suggest a happy medium between what your scouts think about a player and what OSA thinks. This seems to accomplish two things: 1) Makes it more likely your scouts ratings are legit. 2) Maybe allows you to sneak a guy your scout says is great until your next pick. If OSA doesn't like him much, you've got a decent chance of his sticking around a bit. Between that and keeping a little bit of an eye on his stats and maybe you get somewhere. Also depending on how you have your potential ratings set, you should probably steer clear of any middle relievers unless they have an expected role as a starter. Seems to me accumulating relievers through other means than the draft is easy and they tend to fall down the draft board anyway. What's nice about that is that it kind of works the same as real life. I mention all of these things because they are all mistakes I have already made. Nothing like a little bit of trial and a whole lot of error.