Joe Morgan Joining Reds As Special Advisor

[boblight24]

Joe Morgan Joins Reds As Special Advisor

Could this mean that Joe is gone from Sunday Night Baseball? Don't get me wrong, I think Joe was an otherworldly second basemen on what might be one of the finest dynasties in baseball history, but a good analyst he is not. I lost respect for him the night he as asked if Chipper Jones should be considered a Hall of Famer and he said that it wasn't his place to discuss such things on national tv and then he said this, "it's not proper for a broadcaster to talk about someone being in the Hall of Fame or not, but I think that Maury Wills is a definite Hall of Famer." WTF?

[Kane182]

The man doesn't believe OBP means anything either...He argued that a single is better than a walk.

[boblight24]

Originally Posted by Kane182

The man doesn't believe OBP means anything either...He argued that a single is better than a walk.

I guess he and Dusty Baker will make quite a pair in the Queen City. I fear for Chapman's arm.

[CD1083]

Originally Posted by Kane182

The man doesn't believe OBP means anything either...He argued that a single is better than a walk.

statistically it is, in the grand scheme of the game it's not.

I love it when him and Jon Miller have their marital spats on the air.

I hope he's done.

[CHCfan]

Originally Posted by Kane182

The man doesn't believe OBP means anything either...He argued that a single is better than a walk.

A single isn't better than a walk?

With the bases empty, they produce equal results. But no one ever went 1st-to-3rd on a walk, or scored from second.

Morgan is way off on OBP, but I think you just phrased his point too narrowly.

[Kane182]

Originally Posted by CHCfan

A single isn't better than a walk?

With the bases empty, they produce equal results. But no one ever went 1st-to-3rd on a walk, or scored from second.

Morgan is way off on OBP, but I think you just phrased his point too narrowly.

Yeah I believe when he was arguing about it he meant with the bases empty which is also what I meant.

[mikev]

Originally Posted by CHCfan

With the bases empty, they produce equal results. But no one ever went 1st-to-3rd on a walk, or scored from second.

There's never been a wild pitch on ball 4 with the runner moving on the 3-2 pitch?

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by mikev

There's never been a wild pitch on ball 4 with the runner moving on the 3-2 pitch?

This came to mind:

YouTube - Walk-Off Wild Pitch On Intentional Walk

[Green & Gold Heart]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

This came to mind:

YouTube - Walk-Off Wild Pitch On Intentional Walk

They should have brought in another pitcher for the second intentional walk.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Green & Gold Heart

They should have brought in another pitcher for the second intentional walk.

To be fair, it was the bottom of the 12th, so it's possible they didn't have anyone else, but yeah. Hell, I have never played baseball and I could probably IBB a guy (or hit him with a pitch).

[Prodigal Son]

Originally Posted by Kane182

Yeah I believe when he was arguing about it he meant with the bases empty which is also what I meant.

A single is still better. Nobody makes an error on a walk, allowing the baserunner to take second or third.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

A single is still better. Nobody makes an error on a walk, allowing the baserunner to take second or third.

Unless there's a wild pitch or passed ball on the last pitch and the C throws the ball out of play or into the outfield.

[boblight24]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Unless there's a wild pitch or passed ball on the last pitch and the C throws the ball out of play or into the outfield.

or he pulls a Milton Bradley and tosses it into the crowd with only 1 out

[yankeesrule]

Originally Posted by boblight24

or he pulls a Milton Bradley and tosses it into the crowd with only 1 out

or bc he was bored, thought a fan yelled at him, or the voices in his head just told him to do it

[Prodigal Son]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Unless there's a wild pitch or passed ball on the last pitch and the C throws the ball out of play or into the outfield.

Advancing an extra base from a passed ball or wild pitch in conjunction with a walk is less common than advancing an extra base from a fielding error off of a hit, so a single is still better than a walk in every situation.

[CommishJoe]

But, even the best hitters out there only safely reach base 3 times out of 10 ABs. If you can take a walk, you are guaranteed to get on base. Hit the ball, and you're left praying that it finds a hole.

[CD1083]

That's hitting the ball, a single is assuming that the hole was found.

[Kane182]

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

A single is still better. Nobody makes an error on a walk, allowing the baserunner to take second or third.

I'm not interested in debating this with you Mr. Morgan.

As I mentioned before...No one on base in either situation and the result is the same either way, you are getting on first.

[Prodigal Son]

Originally Posted by Kane182

I'm not interested in debating this with you Mr. Morgan.

As I mentioned before...No one on base in either situation and the result is the same either way, you are getting on first.

About 96% of the time, you are right. The other 4% of the time, the result is not the same either way: the guy who hits the single gets an extra base or two due to a fielding error. A guy like Ichiro has hit 200 singles in seasons before, so that would result, typically, in about 10 extra bases off of errors made on fielding those singles.*

Put another way, if you traded 100 bases-empty walks for 100 bases-empty singles, it would be actually be like trading those 100 walks for 95 singles, 4 doubles, and a triple in terms of run-scoring value/value to the team. This is the unrepresented value of a single on an individual player's stat sheet. This is all very interesting to me.

And, of course, a single is a lot more valuable with guys on base (which we've acknowledged). I actually think walks have become OVERRATED by a lot of people lately, coming on the heels of several years of being underrated.

*This uses league fielding average for a quick example. I would have to check the data to see if errors made on singles occur at the same rate as errors made on, say, assumed ground outs to claim this with 100% certainty.

[Kane182]

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

About 96% of the time, you are right. The other 4% of the time, the result is not the same either way: the guy who hits the single gets an extra base or two due to a fielding error. A guy like Ichiro has hit 200 singles in seasons before, so that would result, typically, in about 10 extra bases off of errors made on fielding those singles.*

Put another way, if you traded 100 bases-empty walks for 100 bases-empty singles, it would be actually be like trading those 100 walks for 95 singles, 4 doubles, and a triple in terms of run-scoring value/value to the team. This is the unrepresented value of a single on an individual player's stat sheet. This is all very interesting to me.

And, of course, a single is a lot more valuable with guys on base (which we've acknowledged). I actually think walks have become OVERRATED by a lot of people lately, coming on the heels of several years of being underrated.

*This uses league fielding average for a quick example. I would have to check the data to see if errors made on singles occur at the same rate as errors made on, say, assumed ground outs to claim this with 100% certainty.

You won't get an argument from me there.

My point was and it was definitely lost because I did not explain myself well enough was that the act of getting a single and the act of getting a walk, not factoring in anyone on base or the play resulting in an error produced the same output...Man on 1st.

Joe made such a blanket statement about how singles are better than walks and never explained himself it was just hilarious to hear him say it and not explain why he said it.

I know that I as well as many others go out of our way to bash Joe, but it is so hard because he is such an unlikable commentator and he says such absurd things.