Tired of playing online, so help me in solo....

[progen]

I have been in online leagues for nearly eight years, and quite frankly just got burned out and tired of having leagues fold and having to be on a schedule. I've been in as many as nine and as few as one, and just got tired of them. With that said, I've decided to retire to these two games, OOTP and FM10 and put away all my Age of Empire and the other dozens of RTS, RPG, and other sports games.

I just started to get into OOTP11 and have the Pirates, since I like a challenge. The thing that frustrates me, is the strength(intelligence) of the AI. I have been so involved in FM10 and just how incredibly in depth that game is, and how challenging it is to play solo, that I am just now starting to pull myself away from it to play OOTP. I have the trade settings to Trading Freq-Low, Trading Diff-Hard and Trading Pref-Neutral. I just put C Ryan Doumant on the block, and lo and behold the Angels want to trade one of their four starters, Kazmir, Santana, Weaver and Pineiro. Now, at first I thought, here we go again with the absurd, but after looking at their stats, the Angels and these starters are doing terrible. Santana is 0-11, lol, Kazmir is 3-4, and Weaver is 6-6. But my scouts give them all rave reviews, Santana top line starter, Weaver, middle of rotation, and Kazmir "knows how to win".

So I ask you, am I once again able to take advantage of a weak AI, or is it intelligent enough to want to move these pitchers for a .275 career hitting catcher, who I do like. Perhaps because of the year they're having, or a team who wants to dump some payroll? I doubt however that the AI is that good. And should I change the settings to something different? I am also trying to think of ways to play this game that will give me the same incredible enjoyment that FM10 gives me. Should I occasionally manage a game or two during the week as one guy posted that he does? I'm not just concerned with the trading aspect of the game, as I've read there are still issues, but of the entire game and playing solo.

I live in the US and am a die hard baseball fan. I have played FM on and off over the years but over the last few months have been totally addicted. And I've been playing OOTP for much longer. I want to have that same feeling with OOTP, as I once did when playing online. I play in two baseball leagues and haven't played soccer since high school, so I am 100 times more of a baseball fan. Thanks for taking time to read this, and would appreciate any suggestions.

[SteveP]

Originally Posted by progen

I have been in online leagues for nearly eight years, and quite frankly just got burned out and tired of having leagues fold and having to be on a schedule. I've been in as many as nine and as few as one, and just got tired of them. With that said, I've decided to retire to these two games, OOTP and FM10 and put away all my Age of Empire and the other dozens of RTS, RPG, and other sports games.

I just started to get into OOTP11 and have the Pirates, since I like a challenge. The thing that frustrates me, is the strength(intelligence) of the AI. I have been so involved in FM10 and just how incredibly in depth that game is, and how challenging it is to play solo, that I am just now starting to pull myself away from it to play OOTP. I have the trade settings to Trading Freq-Low, Trading Diff-Hard and Trading Pref-Neutral. I just put C Ryan Doumant on the block, and lo and behold the Angels want to trade one of their four starters, Kazmir, Santana, Weaver and Pineiro. Now, at first I thought, here we go again with the absurd, but after looking at their stats, the Angels and these starters are doing terrible. Santana is 0-11, lol, Kazmir is 3-4, and Weaver is 6-6. But my scouts give them all rave reviews, Santana top line starter, Weaver, middle of rotation, and Kazmir "knows how to win".

So I ask you, am I once again able to take advantage of a weak AI, or is it intelligent enough to want to move these pitchers for a .275 career hitting catcher, who I do like. Perhaps because of the year they're having, or a team who wants to dump some payroll? I doubt however that the AI is that good. And should I change the settings to something different? I am also trying to think of ways to play this game that will give me the same incredible enjoyment that FM10 gives me. Should I occasionally manage a game or two during the week as one guy posted that he does? I'm not just concerned with the trading aspect of the game, as I've read there are still issues, but of the entire game and playing solo.

I live in the US and am a die hard baseball fan. I have played FM on and off over the years but over the last few months have been totally addicted. And I've been playing OOTP for much longer. I want to have that same feeling with OOTP, as I once did when playing online. I play in two baseball leagues and haven't played soccer since high school, so I am 100 times more of a baseball fan. Thanks for taking time to read this, and would appreciate any suggestions.

I am going to give you an answer, but for reasons that remain mysterious to me, some people don't like this answer:

1. If you don't think the AI is making an reasonably intelligent trade with you, don't make the trade. It's your solo league. You can control it.

2. Don't worry much about trades the AI makes with itself. The chances are that one of those teams is getting stronger as a result. There is no reason to be concerned about which team it is.

There is only so much that can be done with an AI in a commercial sim game, especially when you don't have a big staff of expensive programmers. We users have to help out a little.

[OldFatGuy]

FWIW,

After fleecing every game I've ever played, I've found with OOTP if I just set the difficulty to Very Hard (and I change the emphasis-Vets/Prospects/Normal randomly after each season) that you really can't fleece the AI. Or at least if you have a House Rule of No Cash involvement, you can't. And mostly I use Shop A Player to initiate a trade.

Now a word of warning. Set at Very Hard, trading is, in fact, very hard. You will find if you shop most of your players around that most will get no offers back. So if you like making 3-4 trades a year, this setting probably isn't for you. But I've made trades when I really needed to, and felt like (for the first time in my bb sim experience) that I wasn't just fleecing the AI. In fact, when the AI proposes trades to you, there is where you'll see the fleecing. The AI is trying to fleece you! It'll ask for the young, sure fire Hall of Famer on your team and offer you a has been and a never will be. I think I've ever only accepted ONE trade proposed by the AI.

But it really gets me wondering when I read thread after thread and they all seem to say set difficulty to Hard. Am I really the only one setting it on Very Hard??

Give it a try in a test league. If you don't like it, go back to Hard and just give yourself some House Rules if you have to.

It's your game, play it your way!

[gord]

I've found its hard to rip off the AI on hard/favor prospects. A lot of times I'll have to give away three good players of mine just to get one good one of theirs. A lot more challenging that way.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by SteveP

I am going to give you an answer, but for reasons that remain mysterious to me, some people don't like this answer:

1. If you don't think the AI is making an reasonably intelligent trade with you, don't make the trade. It's your solo league. You can control it.

2. Don't worry much about trades the AI makes with itself. The chances are that one of those teams is getting stronger as a result. There is no reason to be concerned about which team it is.

There is only so much that can be done with an AI in a commercial sim game, especially when you don't have a big staff of expensive programmers. We users have to help out a little.

FWIW I like your answer.

Like you I'm puzzled by the angst the trading issue brings up in people. Just use a little self-discipline and create a story line to justify the more reasonable trade you do make.

My rule is simple. When I have a trade pending I put on the hat of the opposing GM and honestly determine if I would make that trade. If the answer is no, I move on.

[actionjackson]

Keep experimenting with settings. I guarantee you that you can find settings that result in a more challenging experience for you. You will never change the AI, but you can make it tougher on yourself. For example:

Don't use scouts or coaches - Levels the playing field and you can't give yourself a leg up on the AI by hiring the best of the best.

If there aren't enough players per team in the database turn off injuries and suspensions and turn position player fatigue up to high - The AI has enough problems with everyday roster management. There's no point in taxing it any further.

Turn off all ratings - Play stats only. This is even more relevant now that players in the amateur draft come with stats from HS or college, whether you use feeder leagues or not (OOTP vets please correct me if I'm wrong - this game's complex enough without me leading the guy astray).

Switch from "Neutral" to "Favor Prospects" (along with low frequency and hard difficulty) in the Trading Preference field - You won't be able to pry away good cheap young talent as easily, which makes trades more challenging for you.

I'm not sure if it's still true, but the AI has been known to have a tough time with waiver logic. At the very least don't take advantage of this or seeing as you're still feeling your way around this game turn off the 40-man roster and go with a no limit reserve roster. Your minor leaguers will still develop. They just won't have stats - use the OSA scouting reports to help you figure out which guys are ready.

The idea behind all of this is to level the playing field so that you can't pilfer the AI. If you want to pilfer the AI and get a few 130 win championship seasons under your belt, by all means, go ahead. I can tell you that you'll eventually tire of this, although it sounds like you already are somewhat.

Do you really want a challenge? Overwrite all the first and last names in the master.csv database (backing it up elsewhere first), being sure to pull the historical database.odb out of the Stats folder first, also being sure to keep a copy of said .odb database elsewhere in case you want to go back to the way things were. Be sure to blank out other obvious tells like birth city, state and country, nickname and anything else that would give you an idea who the player is. You can re-visit things after you've played your game as far out as you want to, to see who was who and how they did. Of course you'd have to use FaceGen only with this setup, but I can assure you that if you use all or some of these options, you won't find it so easy to stomp the AI anymore.

[progen]

I took actionjackson's advice and started a new game with no stars, no ratings at all, and with AI trading at Hard/Favor Prospects. Obviously I used 0% on ratings weight, 65% on current, 30% on previous, and 5% on two years ago.

This time, on June 15th, when I offered up Ryan Doumit from the Pirates, the ONLY offer I received was from the Astros, offering me SP Felipe Paulino who's in AAA. He's 5-1 at AAA, and last year was 3-11 with Houston. AND, Houston is in dire need of a catcher, as Towles is hitting .238, and Castro .231. OSA scouting has him as a suitable 4 or 5 starter. This is defnitely more in the ballpark of trading and something I can live with. I'll see how the rest of the year goes. And also, per actionjackson, I'm not taking advantage of the waiver wire, but right now, only three utility players are available. There have also been five trades made by the AI teams, and all(possibly one in question) were good and sensible trades that appears to benefit both teams. And only two were a one to one swap. These settings look very promising for my solo career! Faith has been restored!

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by progen

I took actionjackson's advice and started a new game with no stars, no ratings at all, and with AI trading at Hard/Favor Prospects. Obviously I used 0% on ratings weight, 65% on current, 30% on previous, and 5% on two years ago.

This time, on June 15th, when I offered up Ryan Doumit from the Pirates, the ONLY offer I received was from the Astros, offering me SP Felipe Paulino who's in AAA. He's 5-1 at AAA, and last year was 3-11 with Houston. AND, Houston is in dire need of a catcher, as Towles is hitting .238, and Castro .231. OSA scouting has him as a suitable 4 or 5 starter. This is defnitely more in the ballpark of trading and something I can live with. I'll see how the rest of the year goes. And also, per actionjackson, I'm not taking advantage of the waiver wire, but right now, only three utility players are available. There have also been five trades made by the AI teams, and all(possibly one in question) were good and sensible trades that appears to benefit both teams. And only two were a one to one swap. These settings look very promising for my solo career! Faith has been restored!

I hope it continues, but I offer you no guarantee. If it doesn't continue take a look at some of the other suggestions offered here. They were all well thought out and should be utilized by anyone having AI issues. Remember the AI is what it is. If you want to challenge yourself more than the default settings allow, it can definitely be done, but the onus is on you. Markus will continue to build up the AI, but it will definitely never be perfect. Don't dismiss the game until you've tried every single challenging setting possible. I can assure you that will take you a long time. I spent most of my time with 10 trying to find settings that worked for me. It takes a while, but I believe in the end it will be well worth it. I liked OFG's suggestion of rotating between favour prospects and favour veterans based on what you're looking for for your team. The possibilities are seemingly endless. Use them.

[bubba22plus]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Keep experimenting with settings. I guarantee you that you can find settings that result in a more challenging experience for you. You will never change the AI, but you can make it tougher on yourself. For example:

Don't use scouts or coaches - Levels the playing field and you can't give yourself a leg up on the AI by hiring the best of the best.

If there aren't enough players per team in the database turn off injuries and suspensions and turn position player fatigue up to high - The AI has enough problems with everyday roster management. There's no point in taxing it any further.

Turn off all ratings - Play stats only. This is even more relevant now that players in the amateur draft come with stats from HS or college, whether you use feeder leagues or not (OOTP vets please correct me if I'm wrong - this game's complex enough without me leading the guy astray).

Switch from "Neutral" to "Favor Prospects" in the Trading Preference field - You won't be able to pry away good cheap young talent as easily, which makes trades more challenging for you.

I'm not sure if it's still true, but the AI has been known to have a tough time with waiver logic. At the very least don't take advantage of this or seeing as you're still feeling your way around this game turn off the 40-man roster and go with a no limit reserve roster. Your minor leaguers will still develop. They just won't have stats - use the OSA scouting reports to help you figure out which guys are ready.

The idea behind all of this is to level the playing field so that you can't pilfer the AI. If you want to pilfer the AI and get a few 130 win championship seasons under your belt, by all means, go ahead. I can tell you that you'll eventually tire of this, although it sounds like you already are somewhat.

Do you really want a challenge? Overwrite all the first and last names in the master.csv database (backing it up elsewhere first), being sure to pull the historical database.odb out of the Stats folder first, also being sure to keep a copy of said .odb database elsewhere in case you want to go back to the way things were. Be sure to blank out other obvious tells like birth city, state and country, nickname and anything else that would give you an idea who the player is. You can re-visit things after you've played your game as far out as you want to, to see who was who and how they did. Of course you'd have to use FaceGen only with this setup, but I can assure you that if you use all or some of these options, you won't find it so easy to stomp the AI anymore.

Do the players automatically get assigned names? I want to try this, but i don't want all players to have a blank name.

[Ktulu]

Originally Posted by progen

I took actionjackson's advice and started a new game with no stars, no ratings at all, and with AI trading at Hard/Favor Prospects. Obviously I used 0% on ratings weight, 65% on current, 30% on previous, and 5% on two years ago.

By doing this you're actually making it harder for the AI (ie easier for you). Your forcing the AI to also only evaluate players by stats which won't result in a bigger challenge. Since you have everything off including stars, the AI evaluation settings don't affect you. I would suggest increasing the ratings weight so that the AI actually has a better idea of how good players really are.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by bubba22plus

Do the players automatically get assigned names? I want to try this, but i don't want all players to have a blank name.

Order a set or 2 of 20,000 first and last names (which leaves you with wiggle room as I think the total number of players in the all-time MLB database is around 17,500) from this site (delivered for the low, low price of $0.00 to your e-mail box). Don't worry too much if the names don't match up too well with the era you're playing in (DeShawn on a 19th century player is um...interesting). Their sole purpose is to act as a screen for the real name. Find out what line the final name in the database you're using is on. Be careful if you're using some of the modded databases that give you tons of names because your spreadsheet program has limits unless it's the newest Excel. Copy only as many names as you need from the names generated by the random name generator and paste them into the first name and last name columns. You will have to edit some of the names: Obrien > O'Brien; Mckay > McKay. My recommendation is to do so in-game as each draft class appears rather than going through every one of the 17,000 - 18,000 names in the database. Just trust me on this one k?

Delete the obvious tells like nicknames, birth countries, birth states, birth cities, and given names (not sure if this shows up anywhere in the game, but taking it out does no harm). Voila, a historical database where you have far less of a clue as to who is who. If you insist on committing players' birthdates or heights and weights to memory then a) I'm sorry but I can't help you because those things are necessary in game and b) You might need professional help. Don't worry about deleting the birth countries. Everybody just becomes an American and people like the great 19th century Irish pitcher Tony Mullane are no longer distinguishable from any other player.

Now you're relying on stats and, if you've turned ratings and scouting/coaching off like I do, the beleaguered OSA for your scouting. This is truly flying blind, but you still have all the variation between players that comes in a historical sim. Try throttling the AI under these circumstances. Just make sure you check the cannot be fired box if you want to stay with this team for a while because it could be tough. I've only simmed like this without taking over a team in 10, but it was really cool to not know who was who.

It's probably best to have two full copies of the stats folder inside your stats folder - one named "original" and one named "original modified" or something like that. Yank the historical database.odb out of the "original modified" folder and leave the "original" folder as is (hence the name). Make sure you direct the game to the proper folder when you're setting it up. One problem with this approach is you don't get to use the awesome sounding all-in-one historical database mod. Also if you're finished and you want to look back at who was who, use the Master.csv database and find who you're looking for rather than switching everyone back to the original file. The game tends to get very cranky when you change the database mid-game or in this case end of game. Those of you that have seen the various error messages that occur when you make any change in any part of the database during a game know what I'm talking about.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Ktulu

By doing this you're actually making it harder for the AI (ie easier for you). Your forcing the AI to also only evaluate players by stats which won't result in a bigger challenge. Since you have everything off including stars, the AI evaluation settings don't affect you. I would suggest increasing the ratings weight so that the AI actually has a better idea of how good players really are.

Should have caught this the first time around. +1

[robc]

Originally Posted by RchW

FWIW I like your answer.

Like you I'm puzzled by the angst the trading issue brings up in people. Just use a little self-discipline and create a story line to justify the more reasonable trade you do make.

My rule is simple. When I have a trade pending I put on the hat of the opposing GM and honestly determine if I would make that trade. If the answer is no, I move on.

I agree, people shouldn't get mad when the AI blunders a bit, but here is the situation from my perspective. I'm not criticising your view at all.

I like to play games that challenge me and cause me to think. It takes away from that if I have to stop and say, 'the AI isn't handling this very well I won't make the trade'. Just like when I play Civilization, I don't want to throttle back my play because the game doesn't put up a good fight. I think it is amazing that OOTP was created and now enhanced by one guy (or a very small team). They do an amazing job. Sometimes you just wish it was a bit better here and there (as I'm sure Markus does too).

[progen]

My point to all this, and to those who did reply I sent a PM to, in order to discuss this in more detail, is to simply get a better understanding of how to play this game(what settings to use) so that I can get the most enjoyment out of playing OOTP in solo mode. There was no criticism intended in the original post, I even PM'd several people whom I respect on these boards before I put it out to the general public, and they were all certainly helpful. But I thought I'd get more opinions on this issue.

My goal is to not have to get go with Plan B, which is to join yet another online league that will either fold in a couple of months, have no activity on the league forums, or have a total of "two trades" for the entire season. I am bored and frustrated with all that, so therefore, as I do with FM10, I would like the best experience playing in solo mode.

[wellsoliver]

Originally Posted by progen

I took actionjackson's advice and started a new game with no stars, no ratings at all, and with AI trading at Hard/Favor Prospects. Obviously I used 0% on ratings weight, 65% on current, 30% on previous, and 5% on two years ago.

Wait wait- why would you not use ratings at all? How are you evaluating players?

[mking55]

Trading, trading, trading. The bane of all simulation games. I have my settings on trading difficulty very hard and preference on neutral. I've never been impressed by the trading in OOTP and have found it seriously flawed. That's a big problem for me because my favourite part of the game is trading.

I was hoping OOTP11 would be different. It's not.

I started my league (historical) in 1939 with the Philadelphia A's. You can't get much lower than that unless you're the Brownies, but who wants to lead a team of 8 year old girls to the pennant (although that would be the ultimate challenge).

The 1st season the only player of note I traded for was Bobby Doerr who could be had from the Red Sox along with Charlie Wagner for Lou Finney, Fred Chapman, Dario Lodigiani and Jim Shelley. I guess we know who won that trade.

We finished 30 games out of first which gave us the 5th pick in the draft and we scored Dom Dimaggio and Marty Marion. We traded for Mel Ott and some nobodies for some nobodies from us. We traded for some guy named Ted Williams and needless to say, we didn't give up equal value since it's impossible (or near impossible) to give up equal value for Ted Williams. We signed Phil Cavarretta as a free agent and we traded for some punk kid named Bob Feller. We finished 1 game behind the Yankees.

Since then we've won 4 pennants in a row and 3 World Series. Our best season we were 118-36. The two biggest pitchers we've traded for are Howie Pollet and Dizzy Trout. We've obtained Rudy York, Ken Keltner, Lou Boudreau, Pete Reiser, Tommy Henrich, Stan Musial, Hank Greenberg, and Phil Rizzuto through trades among others who have come and gone.

So I would have to say it's still too easy to trade and win. I know I could have house rules (and for those who like them, there's nothing wrong with them), but I don't want to have house rules. I bought the game to play as purchased, not to police myself.

I know I have an advantage knowing who these players are, but the AI knows their ages and their ratings. I still have the advantage.

The trading is weak (in my opinion). Very hard shouldn't allow me to get Ted Williams except if I've kidnapped your children and am holding a gun to their heads.

I play another baseball simulation too that sort of "cheats" when it comes to trades. I think it does some sort of look-ahead (or stores on import) so it is almost impossible to get a future HOF player or any of the greats. You have to give up equal value to get these guys unless they're old and feeble and then who wants them.

Maybe OOTP12 will have better trading. I know it's hard to program this. It's probably the hardest thing (or at least one of the hardest things) to do for a game like this. I respect the effort. However, the results appear to be a failure.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by wellsoliver

Wait wait- why would you not use ratings at all? How are you evaluating players?

To paraphrase Neo in "The Matrix": "Stats...Lots of stats"

...That and the OSA reports in each player card for me as I also turn off scouts and coaches to level the playing field. But, that's still not enough for me due to name recognition, as we're talking about historical games only, so I also swap out the real names (see above posts) rendering me blind as a bat...kind of like the AI.

The AI is not going to raise itself to your level, particularly since you already know what happened in history. If it does raise itself to your level it doesn't matter anyway because we're all ****** and the machines are about to take over, with Doomsday not far behind.

If it's not going to raise itself to your level, you must bring yourself down to its level as much as possible using the options you've been given if you want a challenge similar to the challenges that come with fictional and standard games. It's up to you to choose how far you want take that, but just about every option you choose in setting up the game has an effect on the AI's ability and/or the fog/mystery you choose to shroud yourself in/confuse yourself with. Thus with every option there is a chance to make the game more difficult/challenging or easy breezy. For the most part s'up to you how you play. It's your game.

[actionjackson]

mking55 is your trade frequency set to low/very low? How about using OldFatGuy's method and making the AI favour/heavily favour prospects or vets depending on which type of commodity you're trying to acquire? If you're looking for vets, make the AI favour/heavily favour vets and if you're looking for prospects same thing only now the AI favours/heavily favours prospects. Until you've tried every variable possible (and we have plenty to choose from), you won't know the full extent of the AI's ability in this area.

If you insist on building supreme dynasties because you know who's going to do what, while the AI only sees ratings and (if you give it a chance with various settings) stats, you'll always be disappointed. It's easy to build a dynasty with your Kreskin-like ability to know what's going to happen. The Monday morning QB syndrome is always going to be an issue in historical career type sims. Either find ways to make it tougher on yourself, play a fictional league, or ditch it and play a replay type game to satisfy your historical cravings. Unfortunately you won't be able to make trades in a replay type game though. It's unfortunate that the AI can't know the future like you do, but that's what we have for now.

[progen]

Like actionjackson said, evaluating them through stats. I only know of one league out there that plays with "stats only", and if I were to join a league again, it would be that one or any others that play the game that way. What challenge is it to have stars, ratings and stats. None is the answer.

I appreciate everyone's replies and I have started yet another game with options once again changed. I will keep track of how the first season goes, and report back. I sim for a period of time, and then look at the trades that were made and break them down as to why the AI made the trade. Not with my team, but between the AI teams. I will propose the same trade I have in the last two times I started. Which was in June, and it was shopping my catcher, Ryan Doumit(I'm the Pirates, because I want a challenge). We'll see what kind of response I get from the AI. So far, I'm in mid April and there's been one trade, and it does make sense to me.

Markus and the team have done a great job with this game, to the point where I want to take my own personal time to see how things play out in solo mode, with different settings on, so I can get the best experience, and perhaps help others as well. I couldn't wait for the game to come out, and it has not dissapointed me.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by progen

Like actionjackson said, evaluating them through stats. I only know of one league out there that plays with "stats only", and if I were to join a league again, it would be that one or any others that play the game that way. What challenge is it to have stars, ratings and stats. None is the answer.

I appreciate everyone's replies and I have started yet another game with options once again changed. I will keep track of how the first season goes, and report back. I sim for a period of time, and then look at the trades that were made and break them down as to why the AI made the trade. Not with my team, but between the AI teams. I will propose the same trade I have in the last two times I started. Which was in June, and it was shopping my catcher, Ryan Doumit(I'm the Pirates, because I want a challenge). We'll see what kind of response I get from the AI. So far, I'm in mid April and there's been one trade, and it does make sense to me.

Markus and the team have done a great job with this game, to the point where I want to take my own personal time to see how things play out in solo mode, with different settings on, so I can get the best experience, and perhaps help others as well. I couldn't wait for the game to come out, and it has not dissapointed me.

Try not to sweat the AI trades too much. Remember if one AI team rips off another, it means that one of your opponents gets stronger while another gets weaker. Of course if the weaker team is consistently in the league (AL/NL) you're in, that could become a problem, but I think it all evens out eventually. The only real remedy for this is to set frequency to very low. Keep on stumbling, you'll find the settings you want.