Wow - rookie league offense way out of wack

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by gord

I have gone back and checked the LTMs for my vX league and put them in the v11 league and the results are still crazy. I have the following modifiers for HRs in my vX league and the leaders in rookie league were at the most 15 across all four leagues:

APP: 86.938
AZ: 135.364
GCL: 225.882
PIO: 239.351

If I reset the LTMs all to 1.000 the totals are fine. Should I just stick with that?

Wow, been gone all day so first time I've been back in this thread. Like RichW said go with 1.00. In any new league (or a league like yours that somehow got totally jacked up) 1.00 should be your starting figure and then make changes based on how far off your league is from that number.

Here is something I posted awhile ago in this thread http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post2910557 showing how to set up league modifiers. The thread was about a couple of things but one was the guy was getting too many extra base hits which is applicable to what you are going through.
I hope you find it helpful.

Originally Posted by Sweed

1.000 modifiers should produce approx. realistic numbers but will vary (and sometimes by quite a bit) based on the talent in your league. Luckily they are very straight forward and easy to use to get the totals you want, it's a simple percentage up or down. Eg. if you have 10% too many doubles you change the modifier to .900. If you have 5% to few it would be changed to 1.050. That is the simple answer and should get you close to where you want to be.

However if, like me, you want to be more detailed then you need to look at doubles (or any hit you modify) compared to the total number of hits the league generates. IE. doubles, in my league, should be 20% of all hits so it is possible to have more doubles than your league total is set to because you are also generating more hits. As an example here are my current league totals and modifiers. As you can see the only one set to 1.000 is triples.

Target numbers          OOTPX numbers            My modifiers
AB         167353                   169033
Hits         44522 (.266avg)       45315 (.268)                  1.009
2b           8919 (.200 of hits)    9459 (.208 of hits)          1.214
3b            898 (.020)                1067 (.023)                 1.000
HR           5451 (.122)                5594 (.123)                1.036
BB          16222                       16456                          1.034
HBP          1850                         1959                         1.308
K            31828                       32965                         1.023

Note that I hit 540 more doubles than my target number. However the % compared to hits is almost dead on, .200 to .208. The higher number is due to the league average being .268 to .266. More total hits = more doubles. So if I tune anything it would be hits, not doubles. Same goes for all of my extra base hits as you'll notice they are all very close when compared to percentage of hits.

Walks could also be figuring into why I'm getting 540 more doubles(looking at my league totals you'll see BB is not the problem, just putting it out there as something that has to be looked at). If I'm not getting enough walks then AB's will increase, creating more hit opportunities, and then more doubles. So while trying to get my league average down to .266 is a fix it might only be part of it. I may need to tweak walks also or it could also just be normal variance due to chance\dice rolls.

The goal for me with league totals and modifiers, in regards to hitting, is to get the percentages very close, it will never be perfect. This will give you realistic\believable results. Then move on and get walks per game close to real levels. 16,222 BB is my league total setting or 6.67 BB\per game. My league is generating 6.77, a difference of 234 BB over the course of a season. Close enough for me.

To get these settings isn't all that hard. Make a copy of your league to use for a test, I just save mine with a different name. Use that league and sim an entire season, takes about 5 minutes on my rig. I don't look at any stats other than league batting(don't want to know what happened with standing etc. only interested in totals). Write down the stats the league produced, compare to my league totals, and make adjustments to modifiers writing them down to put into my "playing copy". Delete test league and go back to my "playing copy" change modifiers and get started.

I don't do this every season, only for the first if creating a league or importing from last years version to the new version. Takes less than an hour and pays off for the rest of the year with accurate stats. Then in between seasons check the output which should be very close to your test season. Sometimes I'll need to make small tweaks other times I roll right into the next season. All depends on how far off the numbers are from the total and if I think they are in an acceptable range since the strength of OOTP is it "lives" and doesn't just spit out "perfect" numbers.

[Nugget699]

I have to laugh. The first game kicked off at 7:30pm and went for 9 hours and 18 minutes!

[gord]

@Sweed: Thanks for the info. On a side note, is there a way to "save as" so you keep that base league and use the new versions for testing? I swore I saw a way to do this before but never needed it prior to this.

[limsol45]

i love how the special notes were like a paragraph long lol

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by gord

@Sweed: Thanks for the info. On a side note, is there a way to "save as" so you keep that base league and use the new versions for testing? I swore I saw a way to do this before but never needed it prior to this.

I don't know why but when I made that post I put in "save as", probably because I'm used to doing things that way. However with OOTP I should have said "make a copy" and rename it. Sorry for the confusion.

So to clarify, I first import my league, make a copy either on desktop or in a different folder, rename that copy something like "test ver 11", and put it in the save game folder. I never touch the original import until I have my tweaks done.

When moving from season to season within the same version tweaks are very small and sometimes I don't do any at all.

When going from version to version there tends to be a bit more to tweak, though nothing like you are having to do with your game. But that's to be expected with Markus continuing to fine tune the engine and add things like last years new pitching model and this years new fielding model.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Holy crap, that is some impressive offense

Yeah, it's definitely the strange league total modifiers of the OOTP 10 league which caused that.

[Hasta la vista pelota]

I had a similar thing happen when I converted a X league to 11, just not to that extreme. My Double-A scores were routinely 25-18, 20-17 with teams hitting 8-10 home runs a game. I clicked the "Automatically adjust league totals modifiers for historical accuracy" off, then on again. It changed the numbers and the league is running back to normal again.

I don't know how/why it worked -- still don't fully understand the modifiers or that check box -- but it did seem to work.

[gord]

I was looking at the league totals from my GCL league, trying to get the LTMs right. I simmed an entire season and they aren't close to being right. I know they only play 54 games, but is this right?

CAT.........Sugg...........Actual
AB..........88229..........28918
H...........23532..........6505
2B..........4658...........1198
3B..........977............150
HR..........1674...........331
BB..........8674...........2190
HBP.........1654...........241
K...........21607..........2725

League averages (BA/OBP/SLG): .225/.282/.311

Appalachian League:

CAT.........Sugg...........Actual
AB..........88229..........22086
H...........23532..........5062
2B..........4658...........907
3B..........977............110
HR..........1674...........323
BB..........8674...........1755
HBP.........1654...........165
K...........21607..........2382

Averages: .256/.318/.362

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by gord

I was looking at the league totals from my GCL league, trying to get the LTMs right. I simmed an entire season and they aren't close to being right. I know they only play 54 games, but is this right?

Bold stuff added by Sweed are suggested average or per game stat vs actual stat or per game average with suggested first and actual second

CAT.........Sugg...........Actual
AB...........88229..........28918
H............23532..........6505      .266\.225   need more hits    
2B..........4658...........1198        .197\.184 % of hits is close
3B..........977............150           .041\.023  % of hits too low
HR..........1674...........331          .071\.051     to low
BB..........8674...........2190        divide by games played
HBP.........1654...........241         to compare these stats
K...........21607..........2725       .245\.094  % of ABs Way to low

League averages (BA/OBP/SLG): .225/.282/.311

Appalachian League:

CAT.........Sugg...........Actual   
AB..........88229..........22086
H...........23532..........5062
2B..........4658...........907
3B..........977............110
HR..........1674...........323
BB..........8674...........1755
HBP.........1654...........165
K...........21607..........2382

Averages: .256/.318/.362

Well those starting figures are not based on a 54 game schedule which explains why your numbers aren't close. Note my MLB suggested At Bats (based on a 162 game schedule with 30 teams) are 167,353. Looks like those are based on a ~75 to 80 game schedule. Keep in mind that doesn't really matter except for comparing actual numbers at the end of the season. It is the ratios that are important. I've added some bold items to your code box.

I am going to assume this is all with 1.000 modifiers...

Looking at your first example I added the bold to. Your league should be hitting .266 but they are hitting .225. Here is how I fix that. Your league had 28,918 AB's so you should have gotten 7,692 hits (28,918*.266=7692.188) but you got 6505. You fix this by finding the percentage difference between suggested and actual stats and either add or subtract from your current modifier (that I am assuming are starting at 1.000). So..
7692-6505=1187
1187/7692=.154 you're 15.4% too low in hits
.154+1.000=1.154 that's your new hit modifier

Or you can do it just using the averages the game is giving you IE
.266 suggested .225 actual
.266-.225=.041
.041\.266=.154
.154+1.00=1.154 (your new modifier)

Your not getting enough hits but what happens if this was reversed and you were getting too many? The answer is the same except you subtract from your original modifier. So lets say your suggested was .225 but your actual was .266 we would do this..
.225 suggested .266 actual
.225-.266= -.041
-.041\.225= -0.182
-.182+1.000= 0.817 (new modifier)

Do the same for your K's, that is as a percentage of at bats. For doubles, triples, and homers figure as a percentage of hits. Getting your league hitting .266 instead of .225 will do a lot to straightening out your numbers IE increase 2b, 3b, and HR's.

BB and HBP should be done as a per game average so I can't comment since I don't know how many games your league played.

The key is getting league batting average, walks, strikeouts, and double plays right first. This gets your OBP correct.

Then move onto getting the 2b, 3b, and hr right as a percentage of total hits, this will give your realistic slugging pct.

Also when talking about minor leagues I'm certainly not as anal as I am for my Major League. Something close to realism is fine for minors IMHO.

Hope that helps.

[gord]

Awesome - didn't think to figure what the averages should be rather than the totals. I've been playing since 2006 but I've never really messed with this part of the engine. I'll test these out later tonight and see what shakes out.

The really high HR totals led me to this but I've noticed that my rookie league offensive totals were really low and have wanted to change them for a long time. Thanks so much for the help.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by gord

Awesome - didn't think to figure what the averages should be rather than the totals. I've been playing since 2006 but I've never really messed with this part of the engine. I'll test these out later tonight and see what shakes out.

The really high HR totals led me to this but I've noticed that my rookie league offensive totals were really low and have wanted to change them for a long time. Thanks so much for the help.

No problem. I didn't mess with them much myself before 2006. Pre 2006 there were no modifiers to use. You had to change the actual numbers and then run a test league to see if your "educated guesses" worked. It was confusing because if you wanted more of something you lowered the number and if you wanted less you raised the number. Modifiers are much nicer

Have you tried checking the "Automatically Control In Game Engine" box? It's only suggested for minor leagues and is supposed to help your minors get close to the league totals you set. It's under the Game setup>League setup>strategy tab for each league. If you use it you have to click it for each league and DON'T click it for your Major League. I've been using it since last year and have been happy with it.

[gord]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Have you tried checking the "Automatically Control In Game Engine" box? It's only suggested for minor leagues and is supposed to help your minors get close to the league totals you set. It's under the Game setup>League setup>strategy tab for each league. If you use it you have to click it for each league and DON'T click it for your Major League. I've been using it since last year and have been happy with it.

I didn't notice that until recently when I was messing around with this. On my game, that option is greyed out for any league other than the majors.

And if the BBs and HBPs are done by per game averages and we don't know how many games the totals are based on, how do we adjust those?

[Hasta la vista pelota]

Originally Posted by gord

On my game, that option is greyed out for any league other than the majors.

Me too. What are we doing wrong?

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by gord

I didn't notice that until recently when I was messing around with this. On my game, that option is greyed out for any league other than the majors.

And if the BBs and HBPs are done by per game averages and we don't know how many games the totals are based on, how do we adjust those?

Don't know why the option in your game is grayed out. I'd check the manual for an explanation, then check if it's still grayed out again in the next off season, maybe it will let you turn it back on then. If that fails use the tech support link and file a tech support ticket if it's not already in their knowledge base. They were very quick to get back to me with an answer to an issue I was having.

With regard to your BB and HBP totals. I'm guessing they had to use a somewhat generic league totals to cover the different leagues that may play a different number of games. So while the actual number is not correct the ratios are (remember this is only my supposition).

With that in mind and no solid number to use for games played I'd go to the next best thing that I did know, At Bats. Do your walks and HBP as a percentage of ABs. While not perfect it should at least give you a believable number and since its minor leagues IMHO that is good enough. YMMV.

So for walks..

8674 BBs /88,229 ABs=.098
.098*28918(AB's your league produced)=2833 (new target number for bb)
2833-2190(bb in your league)=643
643/2833=.226
.226+1.000=1.226(your bb modifier)

HBP..

1654 HBP*88,229 ABs=.019
.019*28918 (ABs in your league)=549(new target number for hbp)
549-241(hbp in your league)=308
308/549=0.561
0.561+1.000=1.561(your hbp modifier)

Believable numbers and good enough for minor leagues IMHO. You could also do it a couple of different ways but would come up with similar numbers.

If you're real picky about it you could try to find out average number of AB's per game for the level of minors you are looking at. Divide your suggested league AB's by that to get a good idea of how many games the suggested league totals include. I wouldn't myself as I don't think the numbers would end up being all that different and again, IMHO, not worth the effort for minor leagues.

FWIW I just looked at my A ball league's league totals. If I divide my bb/abs and hbp/abs I get almost the same numbers your league totals are showing.
.096 for bb compared to your .098 and
.018 for hbp compared to your .019

So your ratios in your league totals look fine, just a matter of getting the modifiers set to get you to the right numbers.

[gord]

Since I'm really anal about this kind of stuff, I got the league totals for each of the minor leagues (other than BABIP) and am running a test to see what kind of numbers it produces and go off of that.

The LTMs for MLB are exactly as they were in 2009, so I decided to try to total realism and do the same for MiLB as well. As long as anyone doesn't think this will screw things up in the game (and I'll know more once the test finishes), I'll post them for anyone else that wants to try them.

EDIT: Having to run another test season since the "automatically adjust LTMs for historical accuracy" box was checked and changed the modifiers from 1.000 to something else.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Hasta la vista pelota

Me too. What are we doing wrong?

Check to see if some sort of Baseball Era setting (or pre-defined year) at your major league level is causing this. If you have such a setting, turn it off and see if that allows the minor league option to be available.

If not; put a support ticket in. That option is critical for suitable minor league stats.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by gord

Since I'm really anal about this kind of stuff, I got the league totals for each of the minor leagues (other than BABIP) and am running a test to see what kind of numbers it produces and go off of that.

The LTMs for MLB are exactly as they were in 2009, so I decided to try to total realism and do the same for MiLB as well. As long as anyone doesn't think this will screw things up in the game (and I'll know more once the test finishes), I'll post them for anyone else that wants to try them.

EDIT: Having to run another test season since the "automatically adjust LTMs for historical accuracy" box was checked and changed the modifiers from 1.000 to something else.

That's going to work fine as long as your minor league teams play the same number of games as the real minor league teams. Otherwise you'll have to make some adjustments so they match the number of games your league is playing.

With regard to MLB you can use whatever year you want and they will work with a test season or two. I've been planning on doing the same since the default league totals from my league came from the beginning of the "steroid era" which tends towards a much larger chance of 50 HR seasons.
My thought was to use a three year average of the MLB stats to set mine up, not tying my league to a one year window. Haven't looked at the numbers yet as I'm still about 30 games away from finishing my current season. After that though it's going to be a quick trip to baseball reference to get the info.

One thing while you do this, don't ignore league double plays and getting them right with the "ground ball double play" modifier. Obviously if your double plays are too low you get extra AB's leading to higher hit numbers and all of the offense that goes with it.

The only other ones I adjust besides the general league totals and double plays are wild pitches, balks, stolen base attempts, and stolen base success. These numbers, at least for my league, needed tweaking to get to realistic numbers and a realistic feeling baseball world. They are all easily found at baseballreference.com.

Good luck and enjoy, it really adds a lot of enjoyment to the game when you get the little things right.

[gord]

Originally Posted by RchW

Check to see if some sort of Baseball Era setting (or pre-defined year) at your major league level is causing this. If you have such a setting, turn it off and see if that allows the minor league option to be available.

If not; put a support ticket in. That option is critical for suitable minor league stats.

I believe I figured it out: disable the "automatically adjust LTMs for historical accuracy" on your highest league (MLB) and it will become available for each of the minor leagues.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by gord

I didn't notice that until recently when I was messing around with this. On my game, that option is greyed out for any league other than the majors.

And if the BBs and HBPs are done by per game averages and we don't know how many games the totals are based on, how do we adjust those?

Actually the AB are the anchor to league totals to the best of my knowledge. so you could say that various occurrences are per AB. These can be tied back to games played which you already know if you're getting data from the minor league reference. I wouldn't worry about being a few games off because the output league totals vary + and - 5% at least.

If you are interested, I'm setting up a spreadsheet this weekend that captures real MLB and minor league totals for 2009 (this can be done for any year with data) and then normalizes them to produce an LTM based on your current leagues output.

I could send this to you.

[gord]

I actually have spent the last several hours setting one up myself that allows you to type in the real league total, the game-generated total and the modifier to put into the game. I'd love to see yours since you might have a higher knowledge of the inner workings of the game and maybe we can trade.