Does this guy make the HoF?

ry1220 · 04-15-2010, 09:32 PM

Code:

   g       ab       r       h     2b    3b     hr     rbi      bb       k     sb     cs      avg      obp      slg     ops
2784    10287    2041    3049    510    78    276    1390    2365    1523    782    228    0.296    0.428    0.442    0.870

This guy played 18 years for the Tigers, final two for the Red Sox. He won 8 Gold Gloves at SS, was a 12-time All-Star, won three World Series Championships (all with the Tigers) and was a one-time AL MVP. (Though I feel that it was undeserved with a .339/.471/.491 line, 117 Runs, 11 HR, 77 RBI and 62 SB. Part of it was that the Tigers won 123 games that season, largely due to the team's 2.67 ERA!) So does he (I, yes I simmed my career) make the HoF, based on your standards?

OmahaBaseball · 04-15-2010, 09:58 PM

I would put him in no problem. The individual stats, team accomplishments, and award recognition all point to HoF.

damientheomen3 · 04-15-2010, 10:00 PM

Definitely. 8 GGs at shortstop, almost 300 homers, over 3000 hits, plenty of steals, and a great eye. Easy call.

ry1220 · 04-15-2010, 10:06 PM

I erred on the side of caution, because I have a personal interest in the player--it's my career, but I wasn't too thrilled with the outcome, I never got 200 hits in a season, no batting titles, MVP wasn't deserved.... The best I was ever rated was 12-10-8-13-11 hitting ratings (on a 1-20 scale).

lgkeeper · 04-15-2010, 10:11 PM

not close.

hopeful1212 · 04-15-2010, 10:22 PM

Unless you've really boosted your league's offense, this guy sails into the HOF, no questions asked.

PhillieFever · 04-15-2010, 10:26 PM

Definitely in, the all around numbers are just too good to keep him out.

LiquidTester · 04-15-2010, 10:31 PM

Depends on the league, hopefully your league didn't have compulsory steriod injection and aluminum bats. But seems like a pretty easy case.

Btw, I like "introducted" as a new word.

Fullgatsu · 04-15-2010, 10:39 PM

He plays good offense from a premium position that he excels at defensivly. Yeah he feels like a HoF for sure, He's a player that could do something of everything on the field plus he got 3,000 hits which is something of a auto HoF for me because of the rarity.

Isura · 04-15-2010, 10:44 PM

First ballot.

ry1220 · 04-15-2010, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquidTester

Btw, I like "introducted" as a new word.

Introducted - v. part introduced, part inducted; usu. referring to achieved membership in an exclusive group. Ry1220 was ~ into the Hall of Fame, as the only member of the class of 2034.

mtopham · 04-15-2010, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ry1220

I erred on the side of caution, because I have a personal interest in the player--it's my career, but I wasn't too thrilled with the outcome, I never got 200 hits in a season, no batting titles, MVP wasn't deserved.... The best I was ever rated was 12-10-8-13-11 hitting ratings (on a 1-20 scale).

I think the real question is why you feel the MVP was undeserved? Those numbers for that season are amazing. The fact that they had an amazing staff does not in any way diminish his fine season. I think those are MVP numbers and his career numbers are HoF numbers.

Charlie Hough · 04-15-2010, 11:53 PM

People forget that the Hall of Fame was never established to honor statistics. It was established to honor the most famous and important figures in the history of baseball. Hence the term Hall of Fame.

That is why Bill Mazeroski always belonged in the Hall of Fame. He hit one of the three most famous home runs in the history of baseball up until that point (Babe Ruth in 1932 World Series, Bobby Thompson for the 1951 NL pennant, and Mazeroski in the 9th inning of game seven to give the Pirates an upset win over the Yankees in 1960). His shot in 1960 was the first time that a World Series ended with a walk-off home run. Not to mention that he was probably one of the two or three most famous players in history for his defense.

Now, a player who wins eight Gold Gloves, was a 12-time All-Star, a three-time world champion, and a one-time MVP would probably go down as one of the most famous players of his era. What's his popularity rating and impact on attendance and finances? That should probably play into it as well.

My unofficial standard has always been this: 50 years from now, will the player still be a household name among baseball fans and historians? If you're pretty sure he will be, then he's probably famous enough to belong in the Hall.

LiquidTester · 04-16-2010, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ry1220

Introducted - v. part introduced, part inducted; usu. referring to achieved membership in an exclusive group. Ry1220 was ~ into the Hall of Fame, as the only member of the class of 2034.

I was trying to be clever and I look like the idiot. Yes it's a word I've found out.

ry1220 · 04-16-2010, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquidTester

I was trying to be clever and I look like the idiot. Yes it's a word I've found out.

No, I was defending my stupidity, I don't think it's actually a word.

ry1220 · 04-16-2010, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtopham

I think the real question is why you feel the MVP was undeserved? Those numbers for that season are amazing.

Amazing? I think .339/.471/.491 is a very, very good line with 10 HR 77 RBI and 117 R, which makes it even better.

But MVP award? It comes down to how you define the MVP award. I like the definition of Hitter of the Year, as that's how the game calculates it. Plus, I don't know how valuable my player is with 77 RBIs from the #3 spot.

(Yes, he probably should bat leadoff, but the AI batted him third until about the late 2020s.)

A better candidate? Tom Buchanon: .335/.413/.549 33HR 94RBI 104R for a 83-79 team.

Eugene Church · 04-16-2010, 01:12 AM

Definitely a Hall of Famer with 3000 hits, 8 gold gloves, 2000 runs, 1400 runs scored, 300 homers and a .296 batting average... He was an important part of winning teams with three world series wins and a 12-time all-star... an easy choice for the Hall of Fame.

majesty95 · 04-16-2010, 03:04 AM

There's no question he's an HOFer. Over 3,00 hits, 2,000 runs and 750 sb to go along with 12 AS appearances and 8 Gold Gloves! He shouldn't even have to wait five years!

SirDrexl · 04-16-2010, 03:34 AM

Yes. His numbers overall are better than Robin Yount's, and he has way more stolen bases and Gold Gloves. Among middle infielders, I'd put him in before Alomar and Biggio too.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 04-16-2010, 04:10 AM

Guys in baseball history with 3,000 hits and a .425 on-base percentage:

Ty Cobb
Tris Speaker

Near misses:

Babe Ruth (would have enough hits if he hadn't been a pitcher)
Ted Williams (would have enough hits if not for war)
Lou Gehrig
Rogers Hornsby
Eddie Collins (not quite enough OBP)

Albert Pujols has a shot at making the list.

If those eight guys are Hall of Famers, your guy is a Hall of Famer.

View Poll Results: Does this guy get into the HoF?
Yes, introducted into the class of 2034, Ry1220!	61	96.83%
No, good career, but 3000 hits is just a number.	2	3.17%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

04-15-2010, 09:32 PM	#1
ry1220 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 818	Does this guy make the HoF? Code: g ab r h 2b 3b hr rbi bb k sb cs avg obp slg ops 2784 10287 2041 3049 510 78 276 1390 2365 1523 782 228 0.296 0.428 0.442 0.870 This guy played 18 years for the Tigers, final two for the Red Sox. He won 8 Gold Gloves at SS, was a 12-time All-Star, won three World Series Championships (all with the Tigers) and was a one-time AL MVP. (Though I feel that it was undeserved with a .339/.471/.491 line, 117 Runs, 11 HR, 77 RBI and 62 SB. Part of it was that the Tigers won 123 games that season, largely due to the team's 2.67 ERA!) So does he (I, yes I simmed my career) make the HoF, based on your standards?

04-15-2010, 09:58 PM	#2
OmahaBaseball Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Home of the College World Series! Posts: 3,807	I would put him in no problem. The individual stats, team accomplishments, and award recognition all point to HoF. __________________ Life is Good!

04-15-2010, 11:53 PM	#13
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,640	People forget that the Hall of Fame was never established to honor statistics. It was established to honor the most famous and important figures in the history of baseball. Hence the term Hall of Fame. That is why Bill Mazeroski always belonged in the Hall of Fame. He hit one of the three most famous home runs in the history of baseball up until that point (Babe Ruth in 1932 World Series, Bobby Thompson for the 1951 NL pennant, and Mazeroski in the 9th inning of game seven to give the Pirates an upset win over the Yankees in 1960). His shot in 1960 was the first time that a World Series ended with a walk-off home run. Not to mention that he was probably one of the two or three most famous players in history for his defense. Now, a player who wins eight Gold Gloves, was a 12-time All-Star, a three-time world champion, and a one-time MVP would probably go down as one of the most famous players of his era. What's his popularity rating and impact on attendance and finances? That should probably play into it as well. My unofficial standard has always been this: 50 years from now, will the player still be a household name among baseball fans and historians? If you're pretty sure he will be, then he's probably famous enough to belong in the Hall. Last edited by Charlie Hough; 04-15-2010 at 11:57 PM.

04-16-2010, 03:04 AM	#18
majesty95 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 1,789	There's no question he's an HOFer. Over 3,00 hits, 2,000 runs and 750 sb to go along with 12 AS appearances and 8 Gold Gloves! He shouldn't even have to wait five years! __________________ College Football Sim League

04-15-2010, 10:06 PM	#4
ry1220 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 818	I erred on the side of caution, because I have a personal interest in the player--it's my career, but I wasn't too thrilled with the outcome, I never got 200 hits in a season, no batting titles, MVP wasn't deserved.... The best I was ever rated was 12-10-8-13-11 hitting ratings (on a 1-20 scale).

04-15-2010, 10:11 PM	#5
lgkeeper All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: My front porch lookin' in Posts: 1,137	not close.

04-15-2010, 10:22 PM	#6
hopeful1212 Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 385	Unless you've really boosted your league's offense, this guy sails into the HOF, no questions asked.

04-15-2010, 10:26 PM	#7
PhillieFever Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Elk Twp. NJ Posts: 6,763	Definitely in, the all around numbers are just too good to keep him out.

04-15-2010, 10:31 PM	#8
LiquidTester Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 64	Depends on the league, hopefully your league didn't have compulsory steriod injection and aluminum bats. But seems like a pretty easy case. Btw, I like "introducted" as a new word.

04-15-2010, 10:39 PM	#9
Fullgatsu Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Sweden Posts: 65	He plays good offense from a premium position that he excels at defensivly. Yeah he feels like a HoF for sure, He's a player that could do something of everything on the field plus he got 3,000 hits which is something of a auto HoF for me because of the rarity.

04-15-2010, 10:44 PM	#10
Isura Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 361	First ballot.

04-16-2010, 01:12 AM	#17
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 35,983	Definitely a Hall of Famer with 3000 hits, 8 gold gloves, 2000 runs, 1400 runs scored, 300 homers and a .296 batting average... He was an important part of winning teams with three world series wins and a 12-time all-star... an easy choice for the Hall of Fame.

04-16-2010, 03:34 AM	#19
SirDrexl Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 35	Yes. His numbers overall are better than Robin Yount's, and he has way more stolen bases and Gold Gloves. Among middle infielders, I'd put him in before Alomar and Biggio too.

04-16-2010, 04:10 AM	#20
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	Guys in baseball history with 3,000 hits and a .425 on-base percentage: Ty Cobb Tris Speaker Near misses: Babe Ruth (would have enough hits if he hadn't been a pitcher) Ted Williams (would have enough hits if not for war) Lou Gehrig Rogers Hornsby Eddie Collins (not quite enough OBP) Albert Pujols has a shot at making the list. If those eight guys are Hall of Famers, your guy is a Hall of Famer. __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.