Have to admit - - I'm back because of promised upgrades

witwerk8267 · 03-30-2010, 09:01 PM

I haven't really played since OOTP 6.5. Its been years and I've checked in once in a while throughout the years and read all about the new features. I felt I had to get OOTP 11. If even half the features work flawlessly and there are no bugs, this will easily surpass any expectation I had for baseball sims.

This could be the version that propels OOTP to a wider and larger audience. I realize I'm setting myself up for disappointment possibly but excited all the same with the possibilities.

CD1083 · 03-30-2010, 09:22 PM

That brings up a point...I'm surprised OOTP hasn't already reached a wider audience. I know that text games tend to be niche products but I haven't met a single person outside of the text based games community who know what OOTP is.

TGH-Adfabre · 03-30-2010, 11:04 PM

I have met a few. They tend to be programmers that are avid gamers and stumbled onto it.
I am the only person I know who plays it though.

RchW · 03-31-2010, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase Davis

That brings up a point...I'm surprised OOTP hasn't already reached a wider audience. I know that text games tend to be niche products but I haven't met a single person outside of the text based games community who know what OOTP is.

This is a niche within a niche. I have talked to and shown OOTP to 40-50 people, many who are baseball freaks like me, and I get blank stares and head scratching. A few of them are DMB players and I get the impression they have been brainwashed into believing that season disks and high costs constitutes the only way to evaluate a baseball sim. The only people I know outside these boards who also play the game are my son and one of his cousins.

Markus Heinsohn · 03-31-2010, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase Davis

That brings up a point...I'm surprised OOTP hasn't already reached a wider audience. I know that text games tend to be niche products but I haven't met a single person outside of the text based games community who know what OOTP is.

I'm not sure really

Football Manager (the soccer sim from SI) sells a million copies world-wide, and it is basically the same game as OOTP but just a different sport. The reason is that in Europe management sims are highly popular (FM always tops the sales charts in the UK), while the US seems to prefer action over strategy (the PC game market in the US is tiny compared to consoles, it's different in Europe). If the gamers in the US would share the passion of Europeans for sims, then I'd be driving a Ferrari... *lol*

megamanmatt · 03-31-2010, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

I'm not sure really

Football Manager (the soccer sim from SI) sells a million copies world-wide, and it is basically the same game as OOTP but just a different sport. The reason is that in Europe management sims are highly popular (FM always tops the sales charts in the UK), while the US seems to prefer action over strategy (the PC game market in the US is tiny compared to consoles, it's different in Europe). If the gamers in the US would share the passion of Europeans for sims, then I'd be driving a Ferrari... *lol*

I'd say it's a mixture of people like the action over strategy and people just don't know about them. It's not just that they're not popular here, they are pretty alien to most people since very few US developers, who primary make the big US sports games, ever even broach the topic. And on the rare occasion they do make a management sim they half-ass it. A good example is a baseball management sim 2k sports made a year or two back. I think it was like Front Office Manager or some such. Needless to say your game trumped what a large studio like 2k could produce with what I assume is a lot more money and a lot more man-power. Probably one of the biggest piles of crap I've ever played.

MorseMoose · 03-31-2010, 09:44 AM

This may come off as mean spirited but I can assure you it is not.

I think it comes down to OOTP getting too big, too fast. I fully believe that if any version OOTP 4 - 6 was released right now to a wide audience, it would attract a huge population. It was complex, yet simple. Look at Tecmo Super Bowl. It got a huge following and was simple. To this day, there are still people modifying and updating rosters for the current year.

If someone was hardcore text and baseball fan, they can get into this game. Hardcore baseball fans will figure it out. Hardcore text guys will figure it out. Like was said, it's a niche audience. I truly believe that the simpler OOTP 4 - 6 appealed to a wider audience. That's not to say what has come after is bad, per se...it's just different. The game grew...it exploded.

Markus has done a phenomenal job with the latest version. As someone that had, in many ways, given up on OOTP because of how complex it got, I never thought I'd be able to say that I'm playing OOTP again. I decided to give 10 a shot and thought it was ok. But 11 has blown me out of the water. I still struggle with how much information is out there for me, but I'm learning.

But back to niche vs. wider audience: Tecmo Super Bowl updated their game this year. They polished the graphics, but it is still the simple game that it once was. It doesn't have the graphics to compete with Madden. It doesn't have the complexities to compete with Madden, but it has a strong fan base. If a group of people got together to create an updated roster set for OOTP 5 (or whichever free version is out there now), I think that would be an interesting experiment. It's simple, but still a quality game...but now it has the updated rosters and the casual fan is once again interested.

CD1083 · 03-31-2010, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

I fully believe that if any version OOTP 4 - 6 was released right now to a wide audience, it would attract a huge population.

The same could be said about the current version. The problem isn't the game, the problem is marketing, and that really can't be controlled by Markus. How do you market a game that isn't like any other mainstream games in the area. Yeah, FM is big in Europe but baseball is big in America. People want to run their own team. Why is it a feature in every American sports game now? OOTP perfects that feature.

You can't show them the awesome graphics. You can't let them see a demo in action. It's a glorified excel spreadsheet. I love the game to death but the game isn't sexy.

There is a demographic for it. Fantasy baseball users. They obviously like baseball and they enjoy the numbers aspect of the game. It's not a huge transition.

It comes down to advertising. I'm sure its expensive but get an ad in 'ESPN the magazine' or on a mainstream sports website and the game will reach a wider audience.

tigey75 · 03-31-2010, 11:05 AM

Markus, I know this may seem like a very stupid question but would more advertising be cost effective?

I personally stumbled upon OOTP years ago from a random review online, but it was like an underground community. You should make a cheesy local cable access commercial and throw it out there.

CalvinHobbes · 03-31-2010, 11:27 AM

I am a member of several blogs on Sportsnation. Whenever I have a chance I make sure to plug OOTP. The SF Giants blog (mccoveychronicles.com) has like 3 million participants, but the main blogger once posted a comment about Puresim and I immediately shot back that OOTP is better. Was hoping to get a bigger response, but nothing happened. If nothing else anyone who read that blog would see the name OOTP and might've gotten curious enough to google it.

Markus Heinsohn · 03-31-2010, 12:21 PM

We cannot afford ads in big magazines or on popular websites, they cost tens of thousands of dollars. We do advertise using Google, and get a fair share of return on that. Also we contact every possible gaming/baseball website & magazine and ask for the game to be reviewed, but we get ignored 80% of the time

Luckily, this year Baseball Prospectus will review us and maybe ESPN will run a piece about us too. Let's see how it works out...

tigey75 · 03-31-2010, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

We cannot afford ads in big magazines or on popular websites, they cost tens of thousands of dollars. We do advertise using Google, and get a fair share of return on that. Also we contact every possible gaming/baseball website & magazine and ask for the game to be reviewed, but we get ignored 80% of the time

Luckily, this year Baseball Prospectus will review us and maybe ESPN will run a piece about us too. Let's see how it works out...

This may sound selfish, but it works out for your fan base that the game isn't a world-wide phenomenon....it keeps you humble and in touch with us common folk

I've never played a game where the developer was so involved with his fans. But enough kissing up, please release version XI today. thanks

Khrog · 03-31-2010, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

I'm not sure really

Football Manager (the soccer sim from SI) sells a million copies world-wide, and it is basically the same game as OOTP but just a different sport. The reason is that in Europe management sims are highly popular (FM always tops the sales charts in the UK), while the US seems to prefer action over strategy (the PC game market in the US is tiny compared to consoles, it's different in Europe). If the gamers in the US would share the passion of Europeans for sims, then I'd be driving a Ferrari... *lol*

I find that in the gaming communities that I tend to have more Europeans share my interests than my American brethren. I've always known that I'm the oddball here...even my brother just a few years younger is completely a graphics based person where I could care less...in fact oftimes that distracts from the planning put into gameplay.

Malleus Dei · 03-31-2010, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigey75

But enough kissing up, please release version XI today. thanks

What he said.

RchW · 03-31-2010, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase Davis

There is a demographic for it. Fantasy baseball users. They obviously like baseball and they enjoy the numbers aspect of the game. It's not a huge transition.

You should be right, but not from my experience. Every single Fantasy Baseball person I've showed the game to has gone "meh". They're just not interested in "playing baseball". I'm the mirror image, completely uninterested in Fantasy Baseball. I've got to believe it's a table game thing. My first table game was Basketball even though I was completely uninterested in real basketball in 1969.

Is everyone posting in this thread (except me) a Fantasy Baseball player?

CD1083 · 03-31-2010, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

You should be right, but not from my experience. Every single Fantasy Baseball person I've showed the game to has gone "meh". They're just not interested in "playing baseball". I'm the mirror image, completely uninterested in Fantasy Baseball. I've got to believe it's a table game thing. My first table game was Basketball even though I was completely uninterested in real basketball in 1969.

Is everyone posting in this thread (except me) a Fantasy Baseball player?

You know, the same thing has happened with me. I just figured it was the people I knew. That's kinda my point that, who do you try and sell this game to? Does MIT have a baseball team?

robc · 03-31-2010, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Is everyone posting in this thread (except me) a Fantasy Baseball player?

I'm not a fantasy baseball player. Funny but I'm not even currently a baseball fan. I stopped caring about MLB in about 1990. I was a big fan from about age 7 through some point in college.

I do think baseball games make for a good strategy game. That is why I like to play. It provides a different backdrop to the usual conquer the world games I play (like Civilization).

RchW · 03-31-2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase Davis

You know, the same thing has happened with me. I just figured it was the people I knew. That's kinda my point that, who do you try and sell this game to? Does MIT have a baseball team?

I think that there are a lot of potential "closet" players who somehow feel that they can't play the game (or any other "game") because it will reflect on them as adults/fathers/husbands. One of my in-laws made a comment on this "Baseball thing" it's called and my wife happily commented, "at least I know where he is on Saturdays and Sundays".

I'm not sure whether to be happy or embarrassed about that.

TGH-Adfabre · 03-31-2010, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

You should be right, but not from my experience. Every single Fantasy Baseball person I've showed the game to has gone "meh". They're just not interested in "playing baseball". I'm the mirror image, completely uninterested in Fantasy Baseball. I've got to believe it's a table game thing. My first table game was Basketball even though I was completely uninterested in real basketball in 1969.

Is everyone posting in this thread (except me) a Fantasy Baseball player?

Not I, I've been invited into countless leagues. Like fantasy football, it screws up my loyalty to my teams.
Utterly uninterested. OOTP on the other hand, love it.
I remember playing a baseball board game in 1984ish and loving it. Could not find one friend or aquaintance that would get into it with me and I was not into it enough to go solo.

I have the same experience with fantasy baseball players, this has not caught any of their attention.
I do not have any non-redundant common denominator observations about OOTP fans.

TGH-Adfabre · 03-31-2010, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

I think that there are a lot of potential "closet" players who somehow feel that they can't play the game (or any other "game") because it will reflect on them as adults/fathers/husbands. One of my in-laws made a comment on this "Baseball thing" it's called and my wife happily commented, "at least I know where he is on Saturdays and Sundays".

I'm not sure whether to be happy or embarrassed about that.

My wife says the same thing if I play Risk or Axis & Allies for 10 hours on a Saturday with the boys.
I'm both.

03-30-2010, 09:01 PM	#1
witwerk8267 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 111	Have to admit - - I'm back because of promised upgrades I haven't really played since OOTP 6.5. Its been years and I've checked in once in a while throughout the years and read all about the new features. I felt I had to get OOTP 11. If even half the features work flawlessly and there are no bugs, this will easily surpass any expectation I had for baseball sims. This could be the version that propels OOTP to a wider and larger audience. I realize I'm setting myself up for disappointment possibly but excited all the same with the possibilities.

03-30-2010, 11:04 PM	#3
TGH-Adfabre Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,599	I have met a few. They tend to be programmers that are avid gamers and stumbled onto it. I am the only person I know who plays it though. __________________ You mock me, therefore I am My wife

03-31-2010, 11:27 AM	#10
CalvinHobbes Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Calgary Posts: 424	I am a member of several blogs on Sportsnation. Whenever I have a chance I make sure to plug OOTP. The SF Giants blog (mccoveychronicles.com) has like 3 million participants, but the main blogger once posted a comment about Puresim and I immediately shot back that OOTP is better. Was hoping to get a bigger response, but nothing happened. If nothing else anyone who read that blog would see the name OOTP and might've gotten curious enough to google it. __________________ In my opinion, we don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks.

03-31-2010, 12:21 PM	#11
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,805	We cannot afford ads in big magazines or on popular websites, they cost tens of thousands of dollars. We do advertise using Google, and get a fair share of return on that. Also we contact every possible gaming/baseball website & magazine and ask for the game to be reviewed, but we get ignored 80% of the time Luckily, this year Baseball Prospectus will review us and maybe ESPN will run a piece about us too. Let's see how it works out... __________________ Buy Out of the Park Baseball 25 now! Download OOTP Go 25 for iOS Download OOTP Go 25 for Android Last edited by Markus Heinsohn; 03-31-2010 at 12:30 PM.

03-30-2010, 09:22 PM	#2
CD1083 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,590	That brings up a point...I'm surprised OOTP hasn't already reached a wider audience. I know that text games tend to be niche products but I haven't met a single person outside of the text based games community who know what OOTP is.

03-31-2010, 09:44 AM	#7
MorseMoose Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 6,023 Blog Entries: 4 Infractions: 1/1 (1)	This may come off as mean spirited but I can assure you it is not. I think it comes down to OOTP getting too big, too fast. I fully believe that if any version OOTP 4 - 6 was released right now to a wide audience, it would attract a huge population. It was complex, yet simple. Look at Tecmo Super Bowl. It got a huge following and was simple. To this day, there are still people modifying and updating rosters for the current year. If someone was hardcore text and baseball fan, they can get into this game. Hardcore baseball fans will figure it out. Hardcore text guys will figure it out. Like was said, it's a niche audience. I truly believe that the simpler OOTP 4 - 6 appealed to a wider audience. That's not to say what has come after is bad, per se...it's just different. The game grew...it exploded. Markus has done a phenomenal job with the latest version. As someone that had, in many ways, given up on OOTP because of how complex it got, I never thought I'd be able to say that I'm playing OOTP again. I decided to give 10 a shot and thought it was ok. But 11 has blown me out of the water. I still struggle with how much information is out there for me, but I'm learning. But back to niche vs. wider audience: Tecmo Super Bowl updated their game this year. They polished the graphics, but it is still the simple game that it once was. It doesn't have the graphics to compete with Madden. It doesn't have the complexities to compete with Madden, but it has a strong fan base. If a group of people got together to create an updated roster set for OOTP 5 (or whichever free version is out there now), I think that would be an interesting experiment. It's simple, but still a quality game...but now it has the updated rosters and the casual fan is once again interested.

03-31-2010, 11:05 AM	#9
tigey75 Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 308	Markus, I know this may seem like a very stupid question but would more advertising be cost effective? I personally stumbled upon OOTP years ago from a random review online, but it was like an underground community. You should make a cheesy local cable access commercial and throw it out there.