Newbie - Trouble Finding Information?

[SamuraiProgrammer]

Before I start, none of these comments are meant to be negative.

I am not exactly a newbie. On the other hand, I have not played a full season yet. I have had a hard time finding the information I needed.

Granted, lots of information is in the manual. I have found it to be considerably more complete than most game manuals. It is wonderful at telling you 'how to play' but is lacking in some areas on 'how to play well'.

You see, there are still some 'mysterious' pieces of information such as 'how do the manager strategies affect the manager's decisions'. In this case, the answer is generally, play with them and see.

Either no one knows for sure, it is hard to put into words, or it was too hard to figure out and no one is telling.

In a search for answers to this and other questions, I have started lurking on forums of some of the online leagues. I found a GOLD MINE of information. I have not completed my search, but I would like to share the best gold mine I have found thus far. (I acquired for permission before doing this in case they did not want to get bombarded.)

I would suggest that anyone searching for better understanding on 'how to PLAY WELL' go to pebabaseball.com/boards and examine the PEBA Q&A forum.

I found several things that I felt will help me have a better understanding of how to play the game better.

I also found an actual, bona fide discussion of one of the sliders, what a suggested setting might be, and why that setting seems to make sense.

I my short time of perusing their site, I bookmarked 8 different threads to go back and read at some time other than the middle of the night.

THANKS PEBA.

Now, (as I am usually unwilling to let well enough alone ) I have a suggestion. Experienced players, please hear me out.

Sometimes, a newer player will ask a question that does not have a short answer. Perhaps that answer could be a book as long as the manual. Perhaps you have opinions, but are not interested in taking the time to share them because (A) it would take too long or (B) you feel that the information in question is your 'edge' and you don't want to share it.

If the reason for not answering is B, then at least reply that it is a 'trade secret' in your opinion. Others may agree and will post the same or others may disagree and will now be more motivated to give an answer. Even if no one gives an answer other than 'trade secret', the newbie will at least know that delving into this arcane area via experimentation will be worth the time and effort.

If the reason for not answering is A, then I would suggest the following. If everyone who had an opinion were willing to write one line, the newbie would at least be pointed in the right direction. Preface those answers with 'Incomplete Answer' or 'Short Answer' and don't feel bad that you haven't written the master's thesis that the subject deserves.

Thanks to everyone who has posted here and especially the PEBA and their commissioner.

[SteveP]

You missed a (C): some questions (often unknown to the Noobie) are invitations to open up contentious debates about which there can be no resolution.

Anyway, I understand what you are saying. I was a noobie not so long ago, and it can be a catch-22 situation at the beginning: you have to know something to ask a good question, but it's hard to know something before you get some answers.

I doubt that (B) is a significant factor. OOTP, like most sim games, is played against the AI far more often than it is played against other humans.

I think questions about "how to play well" are easier to answer when the question is something along the lines of: I did this, expecting to get that, but got something different. Why?

Questions along the lines of "I'm thinking of doing this. Will something bad happen?" may or may not get an answer. After all, it's just a game. Try it and see what happens for yourself.

Questions along the lines of "What are the ten best things I should do to beat the AI or another human" are a different matter. Too open-ended, and you are likely to get a lot of misinformation that is hard to distinguish from useful advice.

In any event, this community is fortunate to have a number of experienced players who will help out, especially if a noobie has taken a little trouble to figure out a way to put a question that can realistically be answered. Easier said than done, I know.

[SoCal Doug]

Originally Posted by SamuraiProgrammer

You see, there are still some 'mysterious' pieces of information such as 'how do the manager strategies affect the manager's decisions'. In this case, the answer is generally, play with them and see.

Either no one knows for sure...

Thinking for a moment about this, I have a bit of a take on the subject that may add a little more depth to what you are looking for.

I always want to know what 'clicking' on an option will do. And sometimes the general answer is obvious but I want to know more specifics.

An example of one of the few things I was bugged about not having a more detailed explanation of was the luxury tax type options. Yes, I can change the numbers and options and obviously it will limit spending and spread the wealth, but I'm kind of just making some educated guesses at specifically how it works. It would be great to have a detailed example. (Sorry, I don't have the game handy to look up the specifics to make this more... urm...specific.)

In the case of Manager tendancy sliders, I have not changed those, but I can imagine that they are simply sliders that do things such as Bunt more or Less... Hit & Run more or less... Steal more or less... etc. [Yes yes, these are very general examples - I recall the actual options are much more detailed]
I know that if I put it to more, that it will be done more. But how much more do you do the option as you click upwards, or how much less when clicking downward.

This is a situation where I wouldn't want to have to 'play with it and see' I want to be able to set up how my manager will behave right away.

So there are really two types of situations to help you play the game better - one is simply having examples of how things will work and the other would require knowing the actual programming.

Yes, one of us could answer, but only if we have thought about it or had experience in that area. But then you get only the opinion/experience of one player with possibly only one ballclub that has used that option/setting. And that can be very non-comparable to what you may be looking for. My team probably isn't set up the way your team is and doesn't have the same situations as yours, so though I say one option does X for me, it may do Y for you.

SoCal Doug

[SamuraiProgrammer]

Originally Posted by SoCal Doug

I know that if I put it to more, that it will be done more. But how much more do you do the option as you click upwards, or how much less when clicking downward.

This is a situation where I wouldn't want to have to 'play with it and see' I want to be able to set up how my manager will behave right away.

Exactly the kind of situation I am thinking about.

Originally Posted by SoCal Doug

But then you get only the opinion/experience of one player with possibly only one ballclub that has used that option/setting. And that can be very non-comparable to what you may be looking for. My team probably isn't set up the way your team is and doesn't have the same situations as yours, so though I say one option does X for me, it may do Y for you.

Even so, every little bit helps.

But if you and several other people are willing to say "I moved such and such slider down so many steps and felt it was too much/too little/just right" then it would help dispell the mystery a little bit.

The information doesn't have to be perfect and precise to be helpful.

Things like, "If I moved the steal bases slider all the way to the left, my team NEVER tried to steal a base" from one player might stimulate a remark of "I moved that slider all the way to the left and then went to the Player strategies and told my fast players to try to steal".

Suddenly, we (newer players) have some milepost other than simply Less / More.

I guess what I am trying to say is that if more people would give some short, incomplete answers that might be imperfect, it is better than nothing.

For the record, I appreciate the information that has been shared on this forum.

[SteveP]

Originally Posted by SoCal Doug

An example of one of the few things I was bugged about not having a more detailed explanation of was the luxury tax type options. Yes, I can change the numbers and options and obviously it will limit spending and spread the wealth, but I'm kind of just making some educated guesses at specifically how it works. It would be great to have a detailed example. (Sorry, I don't have the game handy to look up the specifics to make this more... urm...specific.)

In the case of Manager tendancy sliders, I have not changed those, but I can imagine that they are simply sliders that do things such as Bunt more or Less... Hit & Run more or less... Steal more or less... etc. [Yes yes, these are very general examples - I recall the actual options are much more detailed]

I know that if I put it to more, that it will be done more. But how much more do you do the option as you click upwards, or how much less when clicking downward.

This is a situation where I wouldn't want to have to 'play with it and see' I want to be able to set up how my manager will behave right away.

FWIW, I learned about these things from trying them out. The number of people who play this game, and can give authoritative answers (i.e, answers that you can completely rely on) is small. They may or may not look at your thread and try to enlighten you. It has nothing to do with attitude. Just that people may be doing other things. This is one of the things I figured out in my days as a noobie.

In any event, some of the sliders have a big impact which is immediately evident when you try them out. A few have a very low impact (or none at all -- as in the case of the squeeze play slider). Others have an impact that is hard to measure, and impossible to quantify. A lot of this has to do with the fact that the AI programming is given a lot of priority in the relevant decisions. All you are doing with the sliders is adding a little, or more than a little, weight on one of the parameters in the decision making. A couple of common mistakes are (1) thinking that these sliders are vital to the performance of the AI (they are not; the impact is incremental); and 2) that you have to fine tune these sliders for every game situation and inning (you do not -- the AI's programming will override most of that). The best approach is to modify a slider by exception. If you think the AI is overdoing or underdoing some specific behavior, move the appropriate slider one or two notches. Otherwise leave well enough alone. And, as always, this is just IMHO.

[jmknpk2]

I think one of the difficulties in answering newbie questions is that a definitive crisp clear well-defined answer may not be known. I have a bit of experience (I've been a hard-core player since version 3 or 4), but not as much as others. Some issues, such as "Is it a good idea to bat a pitcher in the eighth slot of the lineup?" are unknown in real life. Tony Larussa has been known to play this strategy, but no-one can say that he wins more or less because of it. In other words it is difficult to measure the amount of success or failure. Certainly the same type of mystery exists in the game.

One basic area of debate, in considering the development of players, is whether to base minor league promotion/demotion decisions on ratings, stats, or both ratings and stats. You are likely to find experienced managers using all three answers and thinking their approach is superior. I think maybe only the programmers know the true answers, and maybe they've created a game where even they don't have the ultimate definitive answer.

When I was learning the game, these types of gray areas bothered me, but I have come to appreciate them. If the game was too cut and dried, it would not be very realistic. The unknowns in the game tend to mirror real life.

Take for example the recent change from a clear cut "stamina" which determined whether a pitcher should/could be a starter versus bullpen pitcher, to an "endurance" with a variety of pitches to base the decision upon. The game has become less clear in this change. But I believe the ambiguity has allowed the game to become more realistic. In the past, if the stamina was five or above, the pitcher could be a starter, pitchers with stamina below five really weren't cut out to be starters. Now the decision is similar to what every real-life manager or pitching coach has to make. Player "X" looks like he may be suitable as a big league starter, but we won't really know until we try him out in that role and see how he does. The game does have a suggested role, though, that the newbie can base his decision on.