A little OOTP 11 update...

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by Nihilianth

Whatever happened to him? Is he still around?

He posted just above yours.

[PhillieFever]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Lots of the routine plays that were missing in prior versions are now part of OOTP. It has constantly evolved over the years. I'd like to know which still are missing

For one, playing the infield at double play depth.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Eugene Church

Been there, done that... several times over the past 8 years... finally gave up.

I think Markus should already know what routine plays are still not in the game, especially after 10 versions of the game.

I personally would like to know though lol.

[sfeldkamp]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Adding WAR is a very good idea.

Adding these stats is great, but it's also critical that the AI make use of these stats in evaluating players. Otherwise it's just an extra edge for the human player and we'll just have to come up with more house rules.

Markus, just wanted to say thanks for a great game. Your game gives me a reason to look forward to baseball season, which is something for a fan of the Kansas City Royals like me.

[Vinny P.]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

He posted just above yours.

Yeah, I've noticed after I posted that.

[Vinny P.]

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

For one, playing the infield at double play depth.

YES! YES! I wanna see that brought back! Dunno why it was ever taken out!

Oh, and I have said this several times in the past:

The ability to move the outfield left or right. And independantly of one another. (I HATE seeing a right-handed pull hitter, pulling the ball directly down the left field line in the 9th inning with a runner on first. Every single time I see that pull hitter come to the plate, in such situations, I am thinking, DAMN, I wanna move my left and center fielders over closer to the line! And more often than not, I am right! )

So: shifting the outfield appropriately left and right would be a great addition!

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

For one, playing the infield at double play depth.

The IF automatically plays in DP depth when it should, hence it is not a special option

[Vinny P.]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

The IF automatically plays in DP depth when it should, hence it is not a special option

Oh really? So ifyou keep it "normal" it automatically does? heh, that's cool. Thanks.

[pstrickert]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Lots of the routine plays that were missing in prior versions are now part of OOTP. It has constantly evolved over the years. I'd like to know which still are missing

I'm not Eugene, but I'll list a few . . .

Pickoff/SB: The runner on first is picked off but, instead of returning to first, tries to reach second. The first baseman is late with the throw to second, so the runner is safe. Scoring: stolen base.

Pickoff/CS: Runner on first is picked off. Score it: 1-3-6.

Defensive indifference: In real life, the catcher sometimes is instructed not to throw down to second on a stolen base attempt. The runner is NOT given a stolen base. “Defensive indifference” allows him to take second.

WP/out: With a runner on third, the pitcher covers home plate after a wild pitch and records a putout (2-1).

Drag bunt/safe: A left-handed batter (with speed) tries to get on base with a drag bunt. He’s safe!

Drag bunt/out: A left-handed batter (with speed) tries to get on base with a drag bunt. He’s out (4-3).

Foul out/2B: The second baseman catches a pop fly in foul territory.

Foul out/SS: The shortstop catches a pop fly in foul territory.

Dropped throw: Infielders (all of them) ought to drop a throw once in a while. Some infielders drop throws in OOTP, but not all of them (or so it seems).


OTHER OBSERVATIONS MADE BY STEVEP. . .

I have never seen the AI call a squeeze play.

I have never seen (in OOTP) a non-force play at home or at third (less than 2 outs) on a ground ball hit to an infielder (e.g. runner at third goes home on a ball hit to 1B, and the play is made at home instead of at 1B), unless the hit is a bunt.

I have never seen the AI call a bunt with no one on base (i.e., a definite bunt-for-hit), no matter what settings I use.

The game does not allow for double steals with runners at first-and-third, though this happens in real historical games and not all that rarely.

Pick-off plays at 2nd or 3rd don't happen as often as in real life.

While I agree that steals of 3rd happen in the game about as often as in real life, double steals with runners on 1st and 2nd happen more often than in real life.

In OOTP, the AI routinely has pitchers sac bunt with runners on 1st and 3rd. However, I have yet to see this in a real life game, unless it was a squeeze play.

A play in which the batter strikes out and a runner is thrown out on a steal attempt on the same pitch is scored as a DP in real games, but not in OOTP.

I have never seen in OOTP an attempted DP in which the runner is safe and the batter out (or an error at the play at 1B, or the hitter beats the second throw). In OOTP, the outcomes are only: successful DP, runner out/batter safe, error at play on runner, or no DP attempt at all.

Back to bunting: I've seen some strong evidence that bunt ratings are treated as both a measure of frequency and proficiency. As a result, players with low bunt ratings (which I assume reflect #bunts/AB) are more likely to blow the bunt attempt. Real life examples don't support this.

I believe that the game is too generous in what it calls "infield hits." In particular, it does not seem that any ball hit to a zone that ends with a "D" should be considered an infield hit. But I bow to more expert judgment on that one.

[Vinny P.]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

I'm not Eugene, but I'll list a few . . .

A few of these are in the game though. For instance:

Defensive indifference

: In real life, the catcher sometimes is instructed not to throw down to second on a stolen base attempt. The runner is NOT given a stolen base. “Defensive indifference” allows him to take second.

The catcher doesn't throw down to second sometimes, and usually that happens when I don't even want him to throw. It is, however, scored improperly in OOTP. (Of course, I think in OOTP it is more of the catcher not being able to get the ball out of his glove, not that he didn't purposely hold back. lol)

Drag bunt/safe

: A left-handed batter (with speed) tries to get on base with a drag bunt. He’s safe!

Drag bunt/out: A left-handed batter (with speed) tries to get on base with a drag bunt. He’s out (4-3).

Both of these are in the game. It is called "bunt for hit."

Foul out/2B

: The second baseman catches a pop fly in foul territory.

Foul out/SS: The shortstop catches a pop fly in foul territory.

I have observed my SS make a catch in foul territory on numerous occasions. I don't think my 2B has though.

Dropped throw

: Infielders (all of them) ought to drop a throw once in a while. Some infielders drop throws in OOTP, but not all of them (or so it seems).

SS-2B, or 2B-SS. I am sure I have seen this DP combination where one or the other would drop a throw.

OTHER OBSERVATIONS MADE BY STEVEP. . .

I have never seen the AI call a squeeze play.

I have never seen (in OOTP) a non-force play at home or at third (less than 2 outs) on a ground ball hit to an infielder (e.g. runner at third goes home on a ball hit to 1B, and the play is made at home instead of at 1B), unless the hit is a bunt.

I think the AI is programmed to play too conservatively sometimes.

I have never seen the AI call a bunt with no one on base (i.e., a definite bunt-for-hit), no matter what settings I use.

I have seen this on a number of occasions. In the minors, at least. In fact, it just happened in my last game.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

I have never seen the AI call a bunt with no one on base (i.e., a definite bunt-for-hit), no matter what settings I use.

This is in the game, I've seen it many times. Enough times that I make sure to watch for good bunt rated players and make sure to bring in the 3bman to take it away. Very annoying to give up a hit and then see that I failed to check the batters bunt ability.

Also, like Nihilianth, I've seen my SS go into foul ground to make a play. Can't say I recall my 2b doing it but also can't say I've never seen him do it.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Lots of the routine plays that were missing in prior versions are now part of OOTP. It has constantly evolved over the years. I'd like to know which still are missing

Thank for the reply, Markus.

I'll do my research again and send you an email with the ones that are missing. It may take me awhile.

For starters:
Does the game have a force out at third by the SS, 2B, 1B or P on a ground ball to them? That is, a fielder's choice 6-5, 4-5, 3-5 or 1-5.

I think I have seen where they will occasionally get a force out at third on a bunt. I think the 3B steps on third for a force out, too.

With a runner on second and first base empty, does the game every throw the runner out at third on a ground ball? 6-5, 4-5, 3-5 or 1-5?

With a runner on third, does the game ever throw the runner out at home on a grounder? I have seen it force out a runner at home when the bases are loaded.

Players losing a fly ball in the sun or the lights?

Does the game ever fail to get a force out on a fielder's choice, that it, throw late to a base?

Infielders catching a pop fly in the shallow outfield or drop a pop-up in the shallow outfield?

Does the catcher ever drop a fly ball in fair territory?

Infielders, catchers, and pitchers to drop throws.

Errors on bunts.

Infielders, pitchers and catchers to drop infield flies...also foul flies.

Outfielders to drop foul flies.

Do all of the infielders drop foul flies?

[Vinny P.]

[QUOTE=Eugene Church;2900311]

Infielders catching a pop fly in the shallow outfield or drop a pop-up in the shallow outfield?

Pretty sure I saw this happen.

Infielders, catchers, and pitchers to drop throws.

Their own throws, or throws from another infielder?

Errors on bunts.

Yes. This I know is in the game.

Infielders, pitchers and catchers to drop infield flies...also foul flies.

Yes.

Do all of the infielders drop foul flies?

Not sure about ALL of the infielders, but I know I saw my 1b and 3b do so in the past.

[Eugene Church]

Some more missing plays:

Four-base/three-base errors...outfielder lets the ball go through his legs.
For variation, have the runner thrown out at third or home, when an outfielder misplays the ball.

A throwing error by the cut-off man.
An infielder dropping a good throw from the outfield or cut-off man for an error.

Infield fly that no one calls for and it drops for a base hit.
Infield foul fly that no one calls for.

Right fielder throws the batter out at first base on a line drive single.

Batter thinks he has a home run... trots to first... but the ball hits the wall... outfielder gets it back to second and hold batter at first.

Have the infielder throw the ball into the dugout or into the stands for a two-base error... I think it only says "ball went out of play"... or have it ricochet off the first baseman's glove and go down the right field foul line and retrieved by the right fielder. Also have the right fielder throw the batter out trying to go to second on an overthrow... or the catcher backing up the play and throwing the runner out at second.

[pstrickert]

Eugene, I'd consider four-base/three-base errors a rare play. If Markus wants a list of rare plays, I've got a bunch of them.

[PhillieFever]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

The IF automatically plays in DP depth when it should, hence it is not a special option

Ahh, that's why. OK I got nothing

[PhillieFever]

Here's one

runner thrown out on a passed ball, wild pitch. They're always safe

[OakDragon]

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

Here's one

runner thrown out on a passed ball, wild pitch. They're always safe

Doesn't a ruling of "passed ball" or "wild pitch" require that the runner is safe?

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

Eugene, I'd consider four-base/three-base errors a rare play. If Markus wants a list of rare plays, I've got a bunch of them.

You are right, pstrickert. It should be in the rare play category.

As we told in the last Beta by Markus, rare plays take a lot of time to program and are difficult to program.

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by OakDragon

Doesn't a ruling of "passed ball" or "wild pitch" require that the runner is safe?

A wild pitch may only be scored if one or more runners advance. If the bases are empty, or the catcher retrieves the ball quickly and the runner(s) are unable to advance, a wild pitch is not charged.

A passed ball may be scored when a runner on first, second, or third base reaches the next base on a bobble or missed catch, or when the batter-runner reaches first base on an uncaught strike three.