contract-guarantee deadline

[elgringo79]

Hi,

A lot of what happens to financials in the offseason in OOTP confuses me. Team financial info, salary reports, contract years remaining, etc... all seem caught in between.

But one thing I NEED to know is at what point do the next season's salaries become guaranteed for team-controlled ML players?? When is the latest I can cut a team-controlled ML player without absorbing his next salary?

Apparently it's sometime before December 9, I just found out. I wanted to weed through my roster during the offseason, but I wanted to sign some FAs first.

[RchW]

In MLB the entire contract is guaranteed, unless the last year is a team (and possibly a player) option. So there is no "good" time.

For arbitration eligible players you need to trade or cut them before the arbitration hearings.

[elgringo79]

Thanks. Pre-arbitration-elligible players should be cuttable without being responsible for their upcoming salary, up to a certain date, though, right? I guess the question I should've asked was, what date do the automatic-renewals occur?

[elgringo79]

Hey... Why is it that players who have appeared in the majors in the last few years, but are in the minors this year, are on minor league contracts and not major league contracts?

I signed a FA last season to a ML contract, put him in the minors, and now his contract is a minor league contract. I also see a lot of players on AI teams who have appeared in the Majors with their current (and only) organization but they too have minor league contracts. Is this a glitch? Seems like cheating. (Not that I'm above sending players down for one (off) day to delay arbitration elligibilty by a whole year.)

[RchW]

Originally Posted by elgringo79

Hey... Why is it that players who have appeared in the majors in the last few years, but are in the minors this year, are on minor league contracts and not major league contracts?

I signed a FA last season to a ML contract, put him in the minors, and now his contract is a minor league contract. I also see a lot of players on AI teams who have appeared in the Majors with their current (and only) organization but they too have minor league contracts. Is this a glitch? Seems like cheating. (Not that I'm above sending players down for one (off) day to delay arbitration elligibilty by a whole year.)

I think that players who are not on the 25 man roster and not eligible for arbitration at the rollover date (I think by definition this must be the arbitration day), are signed to minor league contracts.

I know for a fact that an arbitration eligible player gets his arbitration award even if he is in the minors.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by RchW

In MLB the entire contract is guaranteed, unless the last year is a team (and possibly a player) option. So there is no "good" time.

Except for players in MLB who have are still under the reserve clause (i.e. those with less than six years' of Major League service); they usually do not have guaranteed contracts. Contracts awarded in arbitration are also non-guaranteed.

Originally Posted by elgringo79

Pre-arbitration-elligible players should be cuttable without being responsible for their upcoming salary, up to a certain date, though, right?

In MLB, players with non-guaranteed contracts who are released during the first half of spring training get 30 days' termination pay; those released in the second half of spring training get 45 days' termination pay; those released after opening day get the amount of salary remaining on the year. Those released during the off-season usually get 30 days' termination pay.

Note that OOTP does not model any of that, however.

[elgringo79]

Thanks Rich & LGO.

The arbitration hearing date makes sense as the most likely deadline to non-tender such "reserve clause" players. (Non-tender is what I should've said in the first post.) Luckily I did a backup before that date. Just have to wrestle with all the damn coaches I want to sign again.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Except for players in MLB who have are still under the reserve clause (i.e. those with less than six years' of Major League service); they usually do not have guaranteed contracts. Contracts awarded in arbitration are also non-guaranteed.


In MLB, players with non-guaranteed contracts who are released during the first half of spring training get 30 days' termination pay; those released in the second half of spring training get 45 days' termination pay; those released after opening day get the amount of salary remaining on the year. Those released during the off-season usually get 30 days' termination pay.

Note that OOTP does not model any of that, however.

I hesitate to question you out of respect but are you sure? Player A is awarded $8M for the 2009 season. The team decides to release him at the halfway point of the season. You are saying he gets only the $4M already paid. I think he gets the $8M on the contract. That's the definition of a guaranteed contract. That is my understanding of the current CBA.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by RchW

I hesitate to question you out of respect but are you sure? Player A is awarded $8M for the 2009 season. The team decides to release him at the halfway point of the season. You are saying he gets only the $4M already paid.

I guess I didn't phrase it clearly.

What I meant is that he gets the full year's pay, but the amount left to be paid at the time of termination is dependent on how much of that season is left. In your example, released halfway through the season he'd get the $4 million that's still left on the year. He's already earned $4 million for the first half of the season that he's played. The total pay he'll get is $8 million.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I guess I didn't phrase it clearly.

What I meant is that he gets the full year's pay, but the amount left to be paid at the time of termination is dependent on how much of that season is left. In your example, released halfway through the season he'd get the $4 million that's still left on the year. He's already earned $4 million for the first half of the season that he's played. The total pay he'll get is $8 million.

So that means the contract is guaranteed. It was your comment suggesting that some players do not have guaranteed contracts that puzzled me. My understanding is that the current MLB/Player CBA says all contracts are fully guaranteed.

Just as a point of reference some non-arb players sign 2 year contracts. So do some arb eligible players. Fringe players who opt for security vs dollars. In either case if these players are released the entire contract becomes payable.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by RchW

So that means the contract is guaranteed.

Yes, in the sense that if he is released after opening day he'll get his pay for the full season. But note that if he's released during spring training or the off-season, he only gets 30 or 45 days' pay, depending on the timing of the release. That's a lot less than the full year's salary.

Originally Posted by RchW

It was your comment suggesting that some players do not have guaranteed contracts that puzzled me. My understanding is that the current MLB/Player CBA says all contracts are fully guaranteed.

Not for players still under the reserve clause; that's why the termination pay provisions are specified in the CBA. Unless they have specifically signed a guaranteed contract, of course.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Yes, in the sense that if he is released after opening day he'll get his pay for the full season. But note that if he's released during spring training or the off-season, he only gets 30 or 45 days' pay, depending on the timing of the release. That's a lot less than the full year's salary.

Not for players still under the reserve clause; that's why the termination pay provisions are specified in the CBA. Unless they have specifically signed a guaranteed contract, of course.

You are right of course. Why I questioned it I don't know. Mike Wilner at the FAN 590 explicitly mentioned Dustin MacGowans non-guaranteed $500,000 contract on his blog.