One Pitch vs Pitch by Pitch - Page 3

RonCo · 01-04-2010, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I'm thinking MLB would lose a lot of fans if teams started to use the "RonCo" strategy

I think fans would get behind any team that averaged 9 or 10 runs a game of offense.

One patch Markus could consider would be making the opponent's AI smart enough to sense what was going on, and basically just groove two strikes to every hitter. (This is assuming that there is _some_ adjustment made for count). It would be a little difficult to design, and may result in some other unintended consequence, but it's a thought.

jbergey22 · 01-04-2010, 12:40 PM

LOL, Well they may average 9-10 runs but it would take 4-6 hours to get there. You'd have to be a patient fan to be able sit there that long.

Killing Time · 01-04-2010, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonCo

Markus works hard to fix bugs, and he does a very good job listening to his customer base.

Bull, given the legacy bugs and that there is still no mass select. Nor is he on here discussing things with us daily like Sullivan does.

Things need to change.

RonCo · 01-04-2010, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killing Time

Bull, given the legacy bugs and that there is still no mass select. Nor is he on here discussing things with us daily like Sullivan does.

Things need to change.

I'll leave the question of "bugs" vs. "design choices" alone, and just note that this is traditionally Markus's quiet time. There are other times where his presence on this board is fairly constant.

As I remember it, Shaun took quite a bit of time off on Puresim at one point. I'm also willing to bet a fake lunch that he runs in cycles as far as how much time he spends on the boards as a general rule.

Markus is one guy, he can be given a bit of time to recharge, I think.

RonCo · 01-04-2010, 01:33 PM

Markus's user account does register 10,359 posts since 2001, afterall. That's roughly 1,100 a year, or 3/day over a 9 year period.

BMW · 01-04-2010, 02:50 PM

It's faulty logic to determine that if Shaun is very good at responding to customers on a message board that when Markus isn't as good as Shaun that Markus is therefore bad.

Personally, I have no need for personal contact with the development team for more than 95% of the games that I play. I don't play bad games, so I also don't see that conversing with the folks on the boards or actively addressing every concern of each individual member user base determines what is a good game or what is a bad game.

If something like mass select is a make-or-break feature for you, that's fine. The marketplace will allow for someone to create a baseball game with mass select and Markus will theoretically no longer have a user base as throngs of users will migrate to mass select baseball.

Perhaps Shaun has less users to deal with, which allows him to spend more time addressing individual concerns. From his board, he has probably less than 150 users with more than 50 posts. And he makes only one of the 7 or 8 titles that the board serves. The OOTP boards have 2,400+. Maybe having 1/20th the user base allows for that. It seems like a reasonable idea.

highandoutside · 01-04-2010, 02:58 PM

[Count me in as someone who loves the idea of pitch by pitch. I like to slow things down, keep score, and really get the flavor of each game. That said, I am nervous that pitch by pitch may throw off statistics.

From what I am reading, it appears that if you manage unrealistically, you can take advantage of the AI. In particular, it appears that taking a bunch of pitches can work to your advantage. That sucks, but it doesn't bother me since I'm not interested in taking advantage a loophole in the AI. I guess what I want to know is if I manage pretty much by the book - some exceptions for my own preferences - should I expect an as accurate representation of a game of baseball as I would in the one pitch mode?...Or, does pitch by pitch BY ITSELF lead to a more offensive or pitcher dominated game?

jbergey22 · 01-04-2010, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highandoutside

[Count me in as someone who loves the idea of pitch by pitch. I like to slow things down, keep score, and really get the flavor of each game. That said, I am nervous that pitch by pitch may throw off statistics.

From what I am reading, it appears that if you manage unrealistically, you can take advantage of the AI. In particular, it appears that taking a bunch of pitches can work to your advantage. That sucks, but it doesn't bother me since I'm not interested in taking advantage a loophole in the AI. I guess what I want to know is if I manage pretty much by the book - some exceptions for my own preferences - should I expect an as accurate representation of a game of baseball as I would in the one pitch mode?...Or, does pitch by pitch BY ITSELF lead to a more offensive or pitcher dominated game?

If you use it like they do in real life it should be very little difference. I know the few times that I have used pitch by pitch I use the take pitch to get more favarable counts to steal on. This sounds like something you probably shouldnt do if you want stats to stay in line. Your hitter behind a good stolen base threat should be patient enough on his own to work a count good enough to run on. To make a long story short the less you use it the better

Killing Time · 01-04-2010, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMW

It's faulty logic to determine that if Shaun is very good at responding to customers on a message board that when Markus isn't as good as Shaun that Markus is therefore bad.

More bull.

Is Sullivan on his board discussing issues with his users? Yes. This is good.

Is Markus on the board discussing issues with his users? No. This is bad.

It's that simple.

jbergey22 · 01-04-2010, 08:09 PM

Didnt Shaun just come off a 2-3 year hiatus?

Isnt Markus allowed a break? I would think that would be a huge advantage of being self employed.

Its not as if he just ignores tech issues.

He doesnt have time to respond to every single issue that pops up that is why he has a few helpers on this forum. Ive seen him purposely post questions that he wants responses to and he will generally respond in that thread.

In all honesty I would be pulling my hair out if I were him. It is impossible to please everyone. He would need to hire a lot more people and still people wouldnt be happy. Everyone wants the best game possible but I think we are asking a bit much to ask a limited crew of people to provide that.

BMW · 01-04-2010, 09:40 PM

Markus implemented two changes I had suggested and/or helped with in the last six months.

However, I am completely fictional, so I can understand how I don't count.

Malleus Dei · 01-04-2010, 09:59 PM

It must be nice to be you. The mass select movement gets no such reception, and I first asked for a "clone player" function back in the days of OOTP 2 (for testing purposes) and still haven't seen it. The only success I've ever had with Markus was saving the game's printing capability when he wanted to get rid of it, and that was like pulling teeth.

What really gets my goat are the flipping "legacy bugs." They really are inexcusable. The rest I may not like but can overlook.

jbergey22 · 01-05-2010, 12:20 AM

The clone player idea seems easy enough. Kind of suprised that wasnt ever added.

I used to use the clone player function all of the time on Stat o Matic before I had even dreamed of OOTP.

Malleus Dei · 01-05-2010, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

The clone player idea seems easy enough. Kind of suprised that wasnt ever added.

Me, too. It would make statistical tests really easy if you had a league full of identical cloned pitchers and cloned players.

The cynic in me believes that is the reason why it was never implemented.

RonCo · 01-05-2010, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Me, too. It would make statistical tests really easy if you had a league full of identical cloned pitchers and cloned players.

The cynic in me believes that is the reason why it was never implemented.

You can do this with the export/import rosters function. I'll often start a vanilla league, export the rosters, open in excel and set everything to identical values, and import again. Save it as a quickstart and you're magically ready to run tons of tests.

Takes four or five minutes, and seems a lot faster than doing such a thing manually cloning guys player-by-player.

The only hiccup is that you have to remember to always set feature that allows the AI to make roster changes properly, otherwise the import will cause things to look like players disappear. That part is always hard to remember.

RonCo · 01-05-2010, 12:20 PM

The only real downside is that the roster files don't have a few of the ratings. Personality and injury status and whatnot.

Malleus Dei · 01-05-2010, 03:33 PM

Oh, I know about the work-around. I just want to be able to directly clone a player.

RonCo · 01-05-2010, 11:42 PM

I'm not sure I would call this a work-around. It's a feature that does a fair part of what you want under the term "clone player."

I'm not saying you're wrong to want it. But I can see other items on the list of possible improvements that provide more value.

Malleus Dei · 01-06-2010, 11:16 AM

Given that it would take all of about five minutes to program, I have to disagree with you completely.

It was a feature of Earl Weaver Baseball back in the eighties. But, like many of the other outstanding features of Earl Weaver, OOTP has never seen fit to implement it.

RonCo · 01-06-2010, 02:34 PM

Yeah, I was probably a bit to strong with that comment. At the end of the day, I agree with the need for both clone and mass-select features. I expect "clone" would be easier to implement than "mass select." I'm not sure your estimate of 5 minutes is bang-on, but I bet it's less than half a day (taking into account design, test, and the invitable bug fixes). Mass select is likely quite a bit more complex.

01-04-2010, 02:50 PM	#46
BMW Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,030	It's faulty logic to determine that if Shaun is very good at responding to customers on a message board that when Markus isn't as good as Shaun that Markus is therefore bad. Personally, I have no need for personal contact with the development team for more than 95% of the games that I play. I don't play bad games, so I also don't see that conversing with the folks on the boards or actively addressing every concern of each individual member user base determines what is a good game or what is a bad game. If something like mass select is a make-or-break feature for you, that's fine. The marketplace will allow for someone to create a baseball game with mass select and Markus will theoretically no longer have a user base as throngs of users will migrate to mass select baseball. Perhaps Shaun has less users to deal with, which allows him to spend more time addressing individual concerns. From his board, he has probably less than 150 users with more than 50 posts. And he makes only one of the 7 or 8 titles that the board serves. The OOTP boards have 2,400+. Maybe having 1/20th the user base allows for that. It seems like a reasonable idea. Last edited by BMW; 01-04-2010 at 02:55 PM.

01-04-2010, 08:09 PM	#50
jbergey22 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,481	Didnt Shaun just come off a 2-3 year hiatus? Isnt Markus allowed a break? I would think that would be a huge advantage of being self employed. Its not as if he just ignores tech issues. He doesnt have time to respond to every single issue that pops up that is why he has a few helpers on this forum. Ive seen him purposely post questions that he wants responses to and he will generally respond in that thread. In all honesty I would be pulling my hair out if I were him. It is impossible to please everyone. He would need to hire a lot more people and still people wouldnt be happy. Everyone wants the best game possible but I think we are asking a bit much to ask a limited crew of people to provide that. Last edited by jbergey22; 01-04-2010 at 08:16 PM.

01-04-2010, 12:40 PM	#42
jbergey22 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,481	LOL, Well they may average 9-10 runs but it would take 4-6 hours to get there. You'd have to be a patient fan to be able sit there that long.

01-04-2010, 01:33 PM	#45
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 10,386	Markus's user account does register 10,359 posts since 2001, afterall. That's roughly 1,100 a year, or 3/day over a 9 year period.

01-04-2010, 02:58 PM	#47
highandoutside All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 683	[Count me in as someone who loves the idea of pitch by pitch. I like to slow things down, keep score, and really get the flavor of each game. That said, I am nervous that pitch by pitch may throw off statistics. From what I am reading, it appears that if you manage unrealistically, you can take advantage of the AI. In particular, it appears that taking a bunch of pitches can work to your advantage. That sucks, but it doesn't bother me since I'm not interested in taking advantage a loophole in the AI. I guess what I want to know is if I manage pretty much by the book - some exceptions for my own preferences - should I expect an as accurate representation of a game of baseball as I would in the one pitch mode?...Or, does pitch by pitch BY ITSELF lead to a more offensive or pitcher dominated game?

01-04-2010, 09:40 PM	#51
BMW Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,030	Markus implemented two changes I had suggested and/or helped with in the last six months. However, I am completely fictional, so I can understand how I don't count.

01-05-2010, 12:20 AM	#53
jbergey22 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,481	The clone player idea seems easy enough. Kind of suprised that wasnt ever added. I used to use the clone player function all of the time on Stat o Matic before I had even dreamed of OOTP.

01-05-2010, 12:20 PM	#56
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 10,386	The only real downside is that the roster files don't have a few of the ratings. Personality and injury status and whatnot.

01-05-2010, 11:42 PM	#58
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 10,386	I'm not sure I would call this a work-around. It's a feature that does a fair part of what you want under the term "clone player." I'm not saying you're wrong to want it. But I can see other items on the list of possible improvements that provide more value.

01-06-2010, 02:34 PM	#60
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 10,386	Yeah, I was probably a bit to strong with that comment. At the end of the day, I agree with the need for both clone and mass-select features. I expect "clone" would be easier to implement than "mass select." I'm not sure your estimate of 5 minutes is bang-on, but I bet it's less than half a day (taking into account design, test, and the invitable bug fixes). Mass select is likely quite a bit more complex.