Customizable...

[Joe Canadian]

Yeah it would be nice in future versions to be able to see where prospects come from (ie. US College, WHL, OHL, QMJHL) as well as the stats they recieved in those leagues.

[StorminZ]

I guess one's appraisal of any game comes down to personal preference. I can be quite picky, but when I consider what I had as a kid ... table-top board games, a few player cards and a pair of dice ... to keep any amount of stats took time and many erasers and pencils (remember, this was long before computers and spreadsheets LOL). Things can always be better ... EHM ... OOTP ... even CM (which I've played and it rocks ... this coming from a Canadian who know little about soccer, err, shall I say football). EHM and OOTP and CM and TPF all fill a void and do it extremely well, but that is not saying they've reached the top of their game (pardon the pun).

I think EHM is a good game ... considering the options out there, you could even say it is one of the best hockey sims. It is far from being where it will be by the time SI is finished. And as for PPH, I must admit never having played Faceoff hockey, but just as SI is reputable for its CM game, .400 is equally reputable for its OOTP game and that will bode well for PPH.

HMHA, your comment about OOTP ... the financial management aspect of the game ... and the absence of some subtle nuances, can you expand? I'm curious, just because I like to hear what others think the game can and should have. I've heard more and more about the need to enhance the financial aspects of OOTP, but then I've always considered OOTP more a stats game than a front-office-to-the-field baseball simulator. But as text-based sims goes, for my tastes, OOTP is the pinnacle of baseball games.

And regarding game development by programmers from countries that seemingly know little of the game, I don't think that is as relevant today as it once might have been. Computers and the internet changed all that. EHM:FE has been recruiting researchers for a while now ... and from what I've heard, they are from countries where hockey is known ... well known. And you gotta keep in mind, given the market base for many of these games and in the interest of keeping price within a range, developers have limitations when it comes to R&D.

Good read, guys!

StorminZ

[HalfManHalfAmazing]

HMHA, your comment about OOTP ... the financial management aspect of the game ... and the absence of some subtle nuances, can you expand? I'm curious, just because I like to hear what others think the game can and should have. I've heard more and more about the need to enhance the financial aspects of OOTP, but then I've always considered OOTP more a stats game than a front-office-to-the-field baseball simulator. But as text-based sims goes, for my tastes, OOTP is the pinnacle of baseball games.

Stormin-

The contracts in OOTP are just so simplistic. If you have played CM4 you will know what I am referring to as far as what they could be doing with them. As it is they are VERY basic contracts without any clauses whatsoever. Look at Frank Thomases contract, it had clauses which would reflect where he should be paid or not paid based on his current skill set. There could be player option years built into contracts, team option years built into contract, clauses which state that a player will always be one of the top 5 highest paid players at his position, wage increases per year, clauses which allow the player to be released from his contract if he is demoted to triple A.

I'd also like to see no-trade clauses built into contracts. There is a loyalty stat but it's being FAR under utilized. I'd also like to see incentive based contracts for wins, strike outs, or home runs, etc.

OOTP is fine for what it is, and basically it has no competition. If SI makes EHM go through the kind of quality control that CM goes though, and if they switch from a VB game which pulls data from a database into a game programmed in a fast language like assembly or C++, there will be MUCH competition.

I am positive that if the developers allow us to do very thorough beta testing on the game that it can be the equal of EHM. I just don't understand the level of fanboyism here.

Steve-I understand YOUR level because I know they censor you guys, but for the common users, where is your sense of objectivity? It's amazing how one sided you are.

[Joe Canadian]

HMHA, what in the world are you talking about?

I didn't know that I was being censored... but thanks for the heads-up .

[HalfManHalfAmazing]

HMHA, what in the world are you talking about?

I didn't know that I was being censored... but thanks for the heads-up

One of my friends who is a forum moderator on this forum told me that it had come from Joe that you should not speak disparagingly of other companies products. Were you not in on that memo?

[Joe Canadian]

Actually I was not. I'm not being censored, but I'm not going to call out developers either. I don't feel the need to belittle any game for the sake of improving it, there are other ways to go about making suggestions. Constructive Criticism.

IMO, EHM is a pretty good game. IMO, OOTP is a great game. No one is telling me to say that, it is MY opinion. Do the games need work in areas obviously... every game in the world needs work in some areas, there is no perfect computer game.

Thanks

[TC Dale]

Neither am I. At no time has .400 told me what to say or how to say it... When I speak of it being understood that we do not undermine other programmers and other companies projects, that is my opinion, and not 400's.


There is no way .400 could have done anything of the sort. Just not possible.
It is just old fashioned good COMMON SENSE.

I believe we do our talking by making the best sports simulations out there. I am like Steve Davis. I don't make it a hobby to call out other games or other programmers. It isn't in my makeup to lower myself to that kind of immaturity.

And that is my opinion. End of story.

[Scott Vibert]

Originally posted by HalfManHalfAmazing
One of my friends who is a forum moderator on this forum told me that it had come from Joe that you should not speak disparagingly of other companies products. Were you not in on that memo?

As a rule we don't censor what our mods/admins say, we trust their judgement, if we didn't they wouldn't have been made mods or admins of the site. Our CM's are volunteers. They aren't getting paid for the work they do helping out on the forums, or acting as a liason for the community to the developers. They are free to say what they like.

I would agree with TC, that in general its common sense to not go about disparaging the competition's products. We'd obviously prefer the focus to be on our products and making them better; rather than debating the merits of another companies product.

In the end I think everyone on this forum wants the same thing... a Great Hockey Game. We here at .400 Studios feel confident that Ryan and PPH will bring you that game.

[EJ]

Ryan, thanks much for the info. It's good to hear from someone in the know.

[TazzMetal]

Aside from the fact that the game has a terrible UI, the draft system is basically unplayable as there is no way to sim until the next draft pick.

Actually, there is a square in the upper right corner of the draft screen that allows you to fast sim the draft to your next pick.

I don't get how you can say that EHM is that awful when the only thing that the game is lacking a tuned up AI. But you can easily work around that, anyways everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

As for the argument about the game being made out of London is a moot point, the game engine will be created in London but every rating on players will done via scouts and volonteers to scout players in their area and the transmit back the info to SI Games. And the game creator, Risto is from Finland (Or Sweden, not sure), I believe, where hockey is huge.

Not to take anything away from PPH but EHM:FE should be an extremely good game. If PPH can match or even do better than Riz and the SI team can, there will always be enough space on my cpu for two good hockey titles.

[HalfManHalfAmazing]

I don't get how you can say that EHM is that awful when the only thing that the game is lacking a tuned up AI. But you can easily work around that, anyways everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Because the "Engine" is horrific. Because the user AI is completely counterintuitive. Because the menus are terrible. Because the sims take forever. Because the game is buggy. Because the game lacks any sense of being a GM or a coach. Because there is no strategy involved in the game whatsoever, there is no way to modify what kind of goalie you have or what kind of offense and defense you can run.

[TazzMetal]

Because the user AI is completely counterintuitive.

It's pretty easy to work around the AI mistakes if you set rules on yourself like no waiver pick ups, no accepting grossly advantaged trades with the AI and so on. Agreed that some improvements are required and will be implemented in the next version.

Because the sims take forever.

What type of CPU are you running it on? What version of EHM were you running? (1.18 is known to be incredibly slow but 1.16 is fast and the small updates in 1.18 are not worth the extra loading time) Simming an average day (6-7 games) takes around 30 seconds on my old 500 MGHZ cpu, that is far from being forever unless you are a very impatient individual.

Because the game is buggy.

What bugs have you encountered exactly? I'm running on XP professionnal and have yet to experience any bug(s) with EHM. Either i'm very lucky or you're unlucky.

Because the game lacks any sense of being a GM or a coach.

So drafting players and have them develop or bust out on you is not part of being a General Manager? Trades, Free agency, Minor leagues, extra practices, training assignements are all included in the game. Yes, it could be more in depth and hopefully will be with EHM:FE but it is hardly lacking any sense of being a GM or a coach.

Because there is no strategy involved in the game whatsoever

Have you ever reached the playoffs in a season in EHM? If not, then you might like to know that wining in the playoffs requires a lot of strategy. Enough that if you are not prepared, you will never be successful. Most playoff teams will switch their line tactics and you will need to accomodate yours to beat them.

there is no way to modify what kind of goalie you have or what kind of offense and defense you can run.

Agreed that those options were left out of EHM but they are most likely be part of EHM:FE since they were available in CM3 and EHM:FE is created off the CM3 engine.


All in all, you are entitled to your opinion about the game itself. It is pretty clear that you did not enjoy it as much as myself and others do but I think you were pretty harsh on the game itself. Yes, EHM needs some improvements, i'll give you that, but it's a solid Hockey Simulation game and comes with no charges.


Now how about we get back to talking about PPH?

Cheers!

[Ryan W.]

Originally posted by TazzMetal


Now how about we get back to talking about PPH?

Couldn't have said it better myself. Please keep the discussion to PPH and features you like in other games, not bashing of other products.

[Le Grande Orange]

I've already posted this in another thread, but I think I'll mention it here too.

If you're going to play out past seasons with historical rosters and such, then you also ought to also be able to play them out on the past actual schedules.

The playing schedule is a very much overlooked item, and yet it can have a large impact on how a season progresses. Who plays whom, when, and how often can have a considerable effect on a league's final standings. Now, while this is less true for hockey than it is for baseball, the schedule still can play an important role in shaping the outcome.

So, it should be possible to play out a season using an actual NHL/WHA etc. schedule if one chooses, rather than having to always rely on a fictional schedule created by a built-in schedule generator. The way to do this is by having a schedule importer be part of PPH.

This importer reads the schedule data from a source file, and then creates the game's schedule file from that data. The only thing that needs to be figured out is the format in which the data should be set-up, i.e. whether the schedule data is listed day-by-day, team-by-team, etc. Once the format is agreed to, then it's just a matter of formatting the real data in that manner in the text file which the importer would read.

I've already gathered all the real MLB schedules for OOTP (though unfortunately no schedule importer exists at the moment to take advantage of this info), so I'd be willing to gather all the actual NHL/WHA schedules from seasons past for use in PPH.

Yes, I'm a schedule fanatic. But someone should be - proper schedules matter!