The shuttle between Oakland and Sacramento is in overdrive...

no2ss · 05-02-2003, 03:41 AM

Okay, so I'm playing a solo league, where the computer controls Oakland, and I was just looking at some of the computer GM's moves over there, and noticed that they have a fairly overactive shuttle between Oakland and AAA Sacramento for some players... I know in the majors there are rules against bringing someone back up less than 10 days after they've been sent down (barring injury). Any way to incorporate that into the game? I mean, this is just insane. Every other day. Up. Down. Up. Down.

I mean look at poor Esteban German and Jose Flores. On June 9th, they made the trip... *twice*. Once each way. I guess Billy Beane was just preparing them to switch places *every day* for the following week. I mean, I know Oakland isn't that far a drive from Sacramento, but these guys must be getting sick of route 80.

Thursday 5/8/2003 :

Micah Bowie was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster.
Chad Bradford was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats.

Friday 5/9/2003 :

Micah Bowie was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats.
Chad Bradford was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster.

Saturday 5/10/2003 :

Micah Bowie was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster.
Chad Bradford was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats.

Sunday 5/11/2003 :

Micah Bowie was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats.
Chad Bradford was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster
Eric Byrnes was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster.
Bobby Crosby was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats.

Monday 5/12/2003 :

Roy Smith was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats.
Micah Bowie was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster.
Jeremy Brown was promoted from A Modeto A's to AA Midland RockHounds.

Wednesday 5/28/2003 :

Eric Byrnes was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats.
Freddie Bynum was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster.

Friday 5/30/2003 :

Eric Byrnes was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster.
Freddie Bynum was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats.

Thursday 6/5/2003 :

Eric Byrnes was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats.
Freddie Bynum was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster.

Monday 6/9/2003 :

Esteban German was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster.
Jose Flores was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats.
Esteban German was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats.
Jose Flores was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster.

Tuesday 6/10/2003 :

Esteban German was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster.
Jose Flores was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats.

Wednesday 6/11/2003 :

Esteban German was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats.
Jose Flores was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster.
Jason Grabowski was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster.
Ron Gant was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats.
Released LF Ron Gant, he refused assignment to minors.

Thursday 6/12/2003 :

Esteban German was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster.
Jose Flores was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats.

Friday 6/13/2003 :

Esteban German was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats.
Jose Flores was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster.

Saturday 6/14/2003 :

Esteban German was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster.
Jose Flores was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats.

Sunday 6/15/2003 :

Esteban German was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats.
Jose Flores was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster.

wspahn21 · 05-02-2003, 09:17 AM

Ummm I dont know what to tell you but this is some funny stuff.

Scott Vibert · 05-02-2003, 09:45 AM

This has been a tough one to track down... obviously players should be alternated on the roster.

I suspect the problem is something in the valuation where these players are approximately equal... I'll pass it on.

Henry · 05-02-2003, 10:27 AM

Not sure this adds or subtracts, but I took a look at one similar player in one of my solo leagues, R.Boyter SP

Between 4-7 and 7-7 he went up and down between active and AAA 6 times. In AAA he had a 5-2 record with a 2.31 ERA, ratings were 5-5-7-5-8-4-7 and talents were all Good.

The first two times he came up he wasn't used, and the following 3 times he went 0-3 in the Show.

Each time he moved, it was one of 3 players he switched positions with - each of them also having trouble on the active roster.

On 6-30, the team made the 1st of three trades involving pitchers, one of which was one of the three trading places with Boyter.

On 7-7 Boyter was called up, took his spot in the rotation, and performed at a 4-7 clip.

The team (Baltimore) finished with a 72-82 record, 15 games out of 1st place.

So... what does this mean? At least in this case, the only questionable moves were the 5 ups and downs from 4-4 to 6-30 and I'm not sure I wouldn't have done the same if I was managing that team. The three player being juggled all seemd to have a problem when they were promoted, and team management made a decision in July.

Before we assume these ups and downs are bad - we need to look at what's going on under the covers.... maybe, if the movement is to frequent - all we have to do is tighten down whatever coding determines when to pull the trigger....

Henry

Steve Kuffrey · 05-02-2003, 11:06 AM

I know that there are times when I juggle players in a similar way(not as much now w/ the refuse minors options) but it is important to look below the surface. Granted I am NOT saying "oh there isn't a problem, the game is perfect just the way it is - deal with it"

. But I am trying to get us to stop crying "wolf" every day and atleast look at what is happening in the background as best we can before thinking there maybe a problem.

rdomico · 05-02-2003, 11:32 AM

What is the rule for "Real MLB"? I believe there is some amount of time that a player must stay in the minors before you can call him up, unless an injury happens.

Does anyone know how long this time period is?

Steve Kuffrey · 05-02-2003, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rdomico
What is the rule for "Real MLB"? I believe there is some amount of time that a player must stay in the minors before you can call him up, unless an injury happens.

Does anyone know how long this time period is?

Not sure, I know that it isn't part of the game but would be nice to add in the future.

gracefulryno · 05-02-2003, 12:43 PM

pretty sure any player sent down cant be called back up for 5 days in MLB

clarnzz · 05-02-2003, 12:48 PM

1999

BREW CREW BOTCHES RULE: The Brewers' ineptitude saved them the embarrassment of possibly having to forfeit a game last week. Milwaukee lost anyway, so the point was moot.
Reliever Al Reyes was recalled April 11 from Class AAA Louisville and suited up the next day for the game in Houston. In the fifth inning, he warmed up in the bullpen but was not brought in.

Because the National League office was closed over the weekend, the Brewers did not learn until Monday that Reyes was ineligible to appear. The Brewers had optioned him to Louisville on March 31, and major-league rules stipulate that a player must stay in the minors for 10 days, beginning with the first day of the season, which was April 4. Reyes wasn't eligible to pitch until Wednesday, but General Manager Sal Bando admitted he didn't know the rule.

``I thought it was 10 days after the day they get sent out,'' said Bando, who added that he thought the rule was ``pretty ridiculous.''

Would be a nice little addition but Id move it towards the bottom of the list.

Gastric ReFlux · 05-02-2003, 12:52 PM

Oh my goodness. Too funny.

no2ss · 05-02-2003, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rdomico
What is the rule for "Real MLB"? I believe there is some amount of time that a player must stay in the minors before you can call him up, unless an injury happens.

Does anyone know how long this time period is?

As stated in the original post, the real rules are that a player needs to stay in the minors 10 days. There is an exception, though, if a player on the ML team gets injured before those ten days are up, they're allowed to be brought back up.

I didn't realize this was an obscure rule. I know I've heard it discussed quite frequently, but apparently, even some teams get it <A href="http://www.juneauempire.com/Archive/April99/041899/stories/041899/Spo_sides.html">screwed up</a> (scroll down to the middle).

no2ss · 05-02-2003, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve Kuffrey
I know that there are times when I juggle players in a similar way(not as much now w/ the refuse minors options) but it is important to look below the surface. Granted I am NOT saying "oh there isn't a problem, the game is perfect just the way it is - deal with it" . But I am trying to get us to stop crying "wolf" every day and atleast look at what is happening in the background as best we can before thinking there maybe a problem.

Hey Steve,

I'm not trying to "cry wolf". I was mainly pointing this out because I thought it was pretty funny. However, from a realism point of view, it does go against the rules and it would be incredibly unfair to the players involved. Plus, in some ways, it's like extending your team roster beyond the 25 guys. Basically, if you had a platoon, you'd call up the guy you needed based on whether a lefty or righty was pitching.

What I think is really happening is that the AI has some sort of determination of "should get a shot at the big leagues if there's room" for the guy when he's at AAA. Then when he gets to the bigs, the AI is thinking "not quite ready". But, the guy they just sent down has a "should get a shot at the bigs", so they start to flip flop. That's my guess, at least.

I don't think this is a big deal at all. I just found it funny, and figured I'd point it out for (a) the laughs and (b) so that eventually it gets looked at.

Steve Kuffrey · 05-02-2003, 01:33 PM

I understand and really hope that we add some depth to this area of the game. I honestly wasn't trying to point a finger at you or this issue.....it's just that it seems that everyday someone mentions an issue that "in their mind" is "the end of the world"(or atleast how it seems to be communicated at times) and I think we just need to examine things more closely on one hand and on the other hand realize it's just a game and play it.

clarnzz · 05-02-2003, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by no2ss

I didn't realize this was an obscure rule. I know I've heard it discussed quite frequently, but apparently, even some teams get it <A href="http://www.juneauempire.com/Archive/April99/041899/stories/041899/Spo_sides.html">screwed up</a> (scroll down to the middle).

Maybe you have discussed this rule quite frequently or what have you. Hell for all I know you are in the MLB front office writing the stuff. Personally I wasn't aware of it until you brought it up, and of course the rule makes perfect sense.

I just find it funny that your example was the only reference reference and albeit an obscure reference to the "well known rule" I could find.

no2ss · 05-02-2003, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by clarnzz
Maybe you have discussed this rule quite frequently or what have you. Hell for all I know you are in the MLB front office writing the stuff. Personally I wasn't aware of it until you brought it up, and of course the rule makes perfect sense.

I just find it funny that your example was the only reference reference and albeit an obscure reference to the "well known rule" I could find.

Heh. I usually hear it being discussed when certain players get sent down. Usually, players who are struggling, but are expected to be back in the big leagues fairly soon. The sports casters usually say "well, he'll have to stay down there at least 10 days... barring injury" or something like that.

If you look around, you can find it in a few other places as well:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...ba02april.html
http://www.savannahnow.com/stories/0...vesnotes.shtml
http://www.savannahnow.com/stories/0...vesNOTES.shtml
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/sport...ans000608.html

clarnzz · 05-02-2003, 03:12 PM

Thanks, I had a hell of time finding something that had it laid out well.

05-02-2003, 03:41 AM	#1
no2ss Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 22	The shuttle between Oakland and Sacramento is in overdrive... Okay, so I'm playing a solo league, where the computer controls Oakland, and I was just looking at some of the computer GM's moves over there, and noticed that they have a fairly overactive shuttle between Oakland and AAA Sacramento for some players... I know in the majors there are rules against bringing someone back up less than 10 days after they've been sent down (barring injury). Any way to incorporate that into the game? I mean, this is just insane. Every other day. Up. Down. Up. Down. I mean look at poor Esteban German and Jose Flores. On June 9th, they made the trip... twice. Once each way. I guess Billy Beane was just preparing them to switch places every day for the following week. I mean, I know Oakland isn't that far a drive from Sacramento, but these guys must be getting sick of route 80. Thursday 5/8/2003 : Micah Bowie was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster. Chad Bradford was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats. Friday 5/9/2003 : Micah Bowie was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats. Chad Bradford was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster. Saturday 5/10/2003 : Micah Bowie was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster. Chad Bradford was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats. Sunday 5/11/2003 : Micah Bowie was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats. Chad Bradford was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster Eric Byrnes was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster. Bobby Crosby was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats. Monday 5/12/2003 : Roy Smith was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats. Micah Bowie was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster. Jeremy Brown was promoted from A Modeto A's to AA Midland RockHounds. Wednesday 5/28/2003 : Eric Byrnes was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats. Freddie Bynum was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster. Friday 5/30/2003 : Eric Byrnes was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster. Freddie Bynum was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats. Thursday 6/5/2003 : Eric Byrnes was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats. Freddie Bynum was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster. Monday 6/9/2003 : Esteban German was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster. Jose Flores was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats. Esteban German was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats. Jose Flores was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster. Tuesday 6/10/2003 : Esteban German was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster. Jose Flores was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats. Wednesday 6/11/2003 : Esteban German was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats. Jose Flores was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster. Jason Grabowski was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster. Ron Gant was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats. Released LF Ron Gant, he refused assignment to minors. Thursday 6/12/2003 : Esteban German was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster. Jose Flores was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats. Friday 6/13/2003 : Esteban German was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats. Jose Flores was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster. Saturday 6/14/2003 : Esteban German was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster. Jose Flores was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats. Sunday 6/15/2003 : Esteban German was sent down from the active roster to AAA Sacramento River Cats. Jose Flores was promoted from AAA Sacramento River Cats to the active roster.

05-02-2003, 11:06 AM	#5
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,023	I know that there are times when I juggle players in a similar way(not as much now w/ the refuse minors options) but it is important to look below the surface. Granted I am NOT saying "oh there isn't a problem, the game is perfect just the way it is - deal with it" . But I am trying to get us to stop crying "wolf" every day and atleast look at what is happening in the background as best we can before thinking there maybe a problem. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

05-02-2003, 01:33 PM	#13
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,023	I understand and really hope that we add some depth to this area of the game. I honestly wasn't trying to point a finger at you or this issue.....it's just that it seems that everyday someone mentions an issue that "in their mind" is "the end of the world"(or atleast how it seems to be communicated at times) and I think we just need to examine things more closely on one hand and on the other hand realize it's just a game and play it. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

05-02-2003, 09:17 AM	#2
wspahn21 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 426	Ummm I dont know what to tell you but this is some funny stuff.

05-02-2003, 09:45 AM	#3
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,209	This has been a tough one to track down... obviously players should be alternated on the roster. I suspect the problem is something in the valuation where these players are approximately equal... I'll pass it on.

05-02-2003, 10:27 AM	#4
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	Not sure this adds or subtracts, but I took a look at one similar player in one of my solo leagues, R.Boyter SP Between 4-7 and 7-7 he went up and down between active and AAA 6 times. In AAA he had a 5-2 record with a 2.31 ERA, ratings were 5-5-7-5-8-4-7 and talents were all Good. The first two times he came up he wasn't used, and the following 3 times he went 0-3 in the Show. Each time he moved, it was one of 3 players he switched positions with - each of them also having trouble on the active roster. On 6-30, the team made the 1st of three trades involving pitchers, one of which was one of the three trading places with Boyter. On 7-7 Boyter was called up, took his spot in the rotation, and performed at a 4-7 clip. The team (Baltimore) finished with a 72-82 record, 15 games out of 1st place. So... what does this mean? At least in this case, the only questionable moves were the 5 ups and downs from 4-4 to 6-30 and I'm not sure I wouldn't have done the same if I was managing that team. The three player being juggled all seemd to have a problem when they were promoted, and team management made a decision in July. Before we assume these ups and downs are bad - we need to look at what's going on under the covers.... maybe, if the movement is to frequent - all we have to do is tighten down whatever coding determines when to pull the trigger.... Henry

05-02-2003, 11:32 AM	#6
rdomico All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Monaca, PA Posts: 829	What is the rule for "Real MLB"? I believe there is some amount of time that a player must stay in the minors before you can call him up, unless an injury happens. Does anyone know how long this time period is?

05-02-2003, 12:43 PM	#8
gracefulryno Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 10	pretty sure any player sent down cant be called back up for 5 days in MLB

05-02-2003, 12:48 PM	#9
clarnzz All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Following everyone off a cliff. Posts: 1,522	1999 BREW CREW BOTCHES RULE: The Brewers' ineptitude saved them the embarrassment of possibly having to forfeit a game last week. Milwaukee lost anyway, so the point was moot. Reliever Al Reyes was recalled April 11 from Class AAA Louisville and suited up the next day for the game in Houston. In the fifth inning, he warmed up in the bullpen but was not brought in. Because the National League office was closed over the weekend, the Brewers did not learn until Monday that Reyes was ineligible to appear. The Brewers had optioned him to Louisville on March 31, and major-league rules stipulate that a player must stay in the minors for 10 days, beginning with the first day of the season, which was April 4. Reyes wasn't eligible to pitch until Wednesday, but General Manager Sal Bando admitted he didn't know the rule. ``I thought it was 10 days after the day they get sent out,'' said Bando, who added that he thought the rule was ``pretty ridiculous.'' Would be a nice little addition but Id move it towards the bottom of the list.

05-02-2003, 12:52 PM	#10
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	Oh my goodness. Too funny.

05-02-2003, 03:12 PM	#16
clarnzz All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Following everyone off a cliff. Posts: 1,522	Thanks, I had a hell of time finding something that had it laid out well.