New League on the Horizon

JWay · 04-15-2002, 08:27 PM

<a href="http://www.simleagues.com/msb" target="_blank">http://www.simleagues.com/msb</a>

The Website is up but the most of it is still in the works. I hope you become just as excited as I am right now soon. Please read the middle of the index page. If that doesn't explain everything please e-mail me!

Jway@simleagues.com

OOTPFan · 04-16-2002, 03:54 AM

I'd like to join and take the NY Yankees

John Bates
jsees@mail.com

spleen1015 · 04-16-2002, 07:19 AM

Scratch that. I didn't see you had to pay.

[ 04-16-2002, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: spleen1015 ]

JWay · 04-16-2002, 07:50 AM

please read the message on the front of the page. Teams won't be handed out until the last week of April and its first come first serve. But read the whole thing soon. Thanks

JWay · 04-16-2002, 04:19 PM

<a href="http://www.simleagues.com/msb/rules.html" target="_blank">http://www.simleagues.com/msb/rules.html</a>

I got the Rules page up. Its still subject to change but its got all the INFO you'll need to join. Let me know of grammer errors or stuff that should be added jway@simleagues.com Thanks guys!

<a href="http://www.simelagues.com/msb" target="_blank">http://www.simelagues.com/msb</a>

Cooleyvol · 04-17-2002, 05:14 AM

I think the pay issue is going to kill you on this league.

Its been my experience that guys participate in this type of league for the fun and competition of it, not to make money.

Most guys won't pay to be in a league, even if they have a chance of recouping their money.

Just my opinion.........

Lee Kirk · 04-17-2002, 05:33 AM

I disagree. Having to pay is a GREAT idea. It keeps the fly by nighters out of the league and it offers a new level of excitement when money is handed out. I own an online racing league called ORCA - Online Racing Championship Association. It costs $30 to race for the season, but the Champion earns $750. We have over 80 members and we're in our first season. Check us out at <a href="http://www.orcaracing.net" target="_blank">www.orcaracing.net</a> and you'll see how far a league can go when membership fees are required.

GO BRAVES!

Lee Kirk
President
<a href="http://www.orcaracing.net" target="_blank">www.orcaracing.net</a>

Cooleyvol · 04-17-2002, 05:44 AM

I totally disagree with you. Your racing league is a bit different than a baseball league that can run multiple seasons in a year's time.

I may be wrong, but I bet this has a hard time....

Your "fly by nighters" reference is WAY off base too. Just b/c a guy participates in online leagues for the competition and fun of it doesnt make him a fly by nighter!

Have fun.

Matthew Iverson · 04-17-2002, 05:47 AM

I also agree. I think you're more inclined to put time and effort if you stand to lose money. Free leagues are great too, though. Obviously I think you should expect more if you pay money to join a league.. ie nice web page, updated frequently, stability and more.

Good luck on your endeavor... I assume that all of the money is going into the prize pool. I would think taking a commish cut for profit might be frowned upon by the OOTP4 group.

Lee Kirk · 04-17-2002, 05:54 AM

Your "fly by nighters" reference is WAY off base too. Just b/c a guy participates in online leagues for the competition and fun of it doesnt make him a fly by nighter!

I didn't mean anything derogatory about that statement, just saying it keeps guys out that only participate for a month and then quit. I'm sure he's looking for more dedication than that. Sorry if I offended anyone. Wasn't intended.

Lee

The Professor · 04-17-2002, 05:55 AM

I'd be a little leery of a league that had an entrance fee (and wasn't supported by a well-known sponsor; ie. MLB.COM SIM LEAGUE etc.)

Not that this league would fit the bill, no doubt its all on the up-and-up. However, what if the league folds? Do you get your money back? I think the lure of online leagues is that anyone can play, its free, and in the right league: its downright fun, win OR lose.

...if it works, that is awesome! I'm just not sure I agree with the notion that a pay-league will keep "fly-by-nighters" out (props to Rush) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

...in fact, and this is in NO way a shot at this league, but I would suspect that a pay league is more likely to be "fly-by-night" than any owner could be. Guys don't join a league to quit, they join, and depending on what they expected, level of maturity (hehe...and I've been rather immature in the past) etc. may have them in and out with a snap of the fingers...

...a pay league could very well pop into existence just to make a buck. That alone is enough to make some people think a little bit...

Hammer755 · 04-17-2002, 05:56 AM

I can definitely see both sides of this discussion. On one hand, because there's money involved, owners are more inclined to remain active, and try to constantly improve their team. However, as it stands right now, it's fairly easy to cheat in an online league, and with a large amount of money at stake ($250 is pretty substantial to me), I could see problems with cheating and collusion arising.

Plus, paying out to the winner is in conflict with a lot of the strategy involved in joining an online league. Not every team's goal is to win the league title this year. Some GM's meticulously build a team over the course of a few years, and they are at a distinct disadvantage compared to teams that are willing to mortgage their future to win the money right now. If you have a 5 year plan, there's no guarantee that the league will still be around in 5 years.

Lee Kirk · 04-17-2002, 05:58 AM

"Good luck on your endeavor... I assume that all of the money is going into the prize pool. I would think taking a commish cut for profit might be frowned upon by the OOTP4 group."

His website says the World Series Champion will receive $250! That's not bad for just a $15 investment.

Lee Kirk · 04-17-2002, 06:02 AM

"I can definitely see both sides of this discussion. On one hand, because there's money involved, owners are more inclined to remain active, and try to constantly improve their team. However, as it stands right now, it's fairly easy to cheat in an online league, and with a large amount of money at stake ($250 is pretty substantial to me), I could see problems with cheating and collusion arising."

Well, as an online racing league owner, I can tell you that it gives me GREAT pleasure to reward my drivers with CASH.

We offer $750 for the winner, so I doubt anyone would scam a baseball league for just $250, but I could be wrong. Either way, the concept is great and his website is top notch.

Lee Kirk
President
<a href="http://www.orcaracing.net" target="_blank">www.orcaracing.net</a> (GO BRAVES!)

Hammer755 · 04-17-2002, 06:15 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lee Kirk:

We offer $750 for the winner, so I doubt anyone would scam a baseball league for just $250, but I could be wrong. Either way, the concept is great and his website is top notch.

Lee Kirk
President
<a href="http://www.orcaracing.net" target="_blank">www.orcaracing.net</a> (GO BRAVES!)<hr /></blockquote>Believe me Lee, people scam leagues that are FREE. I've seen a couple of free OOTP leagues and too many free fantasy leagues to count where either two or more teams collude, or a single owner controls multiple teams. So I'd be pretty surprised of someone wouldn't do it for a couple hundred bucks.

EDIT - Having seen JWay around these boards for awhile, I am definitely willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. He's giving away nearly all the money, and has included a rule that he, as commissioner, cannot win more than $15, so I think he's trying to do it right. I truly hope this works out for everyone involved, but I'm a pessimist at heart.

[ 04-17-2002, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: Hammer755 ]

JWay · 04-17-2002, 07:36 AM

Alright I just woke up but. I made it a pay league for the owners to be active and be inspired. If the league does happen to fold I will make sure everyone gets their money back. Lots of people know me through simleagues. ebay. and other things. And Cooley, I had to try as so far the intrest is there I got plenty of emails asking where to send the money too. I sure hope this does work out becuase I got a lot of time into this already. I want an enjoyable Competitive League.

I know I didn't get all the questions and stuff, just e-mail me and I'll get it right too you. JWay@simleagues.com

Enjoy!

Jordan

JWay · 04-17-2002, 07:43 AM

Oh, Also its 100% payout. And what the rules say go as far as me. I can't win more then $15 back. All that money is carryied over to next years pool almost doubling next years prize to $500. This isn't a one year and out I certainly would like to pull one of Tigers HOB leagues with this except starting in 2002. =D So if teams want to rebuild it certainly could be worth it. If you get a lot of top prospects and they reach their potential and you can get into the playoffs a few times and get a world series or two and your still way ahead.

So April 28th I'll accept league fees. Whether its Paypal or money order or check or money. (yeah i know to many or's) I'll take it and put it into the savings accout for safe keeping until world series 2002 MSB.

Thanks Remember I'll take questions at jway@simleagues.com

Cooleyvol · 04-17-2002, 07:51 AM

I wish you luck with it, but to have active, inspired owners, cash is not required.

I have owners just like that in both my leagues and we dont use money.

If you get the right mix of owners, the activity and inspiration comes automatically.

JWay · 04-17-2002, 07:54 AM

I know and that is cool. and Thank you for the luck

Cooleyvol · 04-17-2002, 08:04 AM

04-15-2002, 08:27 PM	#1
JWay Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Posts: 5,031	New League on the Horizon <a href="http://www.simleagues.com/msb" target="_blank">http://www.simleagues.com/msb</a> The Website is up but the most of it is still in the works. I hope you become just as excited as I am right now soon. Please read the middle of the index page. If that doesn't explain everything please e-mail me! Jway@simleagues.com

04-16-2002, 07:19 AM	#3
spleen1015 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,008	Scratch that. I didn't see you had to pay. <small>[ 04-16-2002, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: spleen1015 ]</small>

04-17-2002, 05:33 AM	#7
Lee Kirk Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Guantanamo Bay, Cuba Posts: 55	I disagree. Having to pay is a GREAT idea. It keeps the fly by nighters out of the league and it offers a new level of excitement when money is handed out. I own an online racing league called ORCA - Online Racing Championship Association. It costs $30 to race for the season, but the Champion earns $750. We have over 80 members and we're in our first season. Check us out at <a href="http://www.orcaracing.net" target="_blank">www.orcaracing.net</a> and you'll see how far a league can go when membership fees are required. GO BRAVES! Lee Kirk President <a href="http://www.orcaracing.net" target="_blank">www.orcaracing.net</a> __________________ Lee Kirk President <a href="http://www.orcaracing.net" target="_blank">www.orcaracing.net</a>

04-17-2002, 05:54 AM	#10
Lee Kirk Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Guantanamo Bay, Cuba Posts: 55	Your "fly by nighters" reference is WAY off base too. Just b/c a guy participates in online leagues for the competition and fun of it doesnt make him a fly by nighter! I didn't mean anything derogatory about that statement, just saying it keeps guys out that only participate for a month and then quit. I'm sure he's looking for more dedication than that. Sorry if I offended anyone. Wasn't intended. Lee __________________ Lee Kirk President <a href="http://www.orcaracing.net" target="_blank">www.orcaracing.net</a>

04-17-2002, 05:55 AM	#11
The Professor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: East of East Posts: 3,020	I'd be a little leery of a league that had an entrance fee (and wasn't supported by a well-known sponsor; ie. MLB.COM SIM LEAGUE etc.) Not that this league would fit the bill, no doubt its all on the up-and-up. However, what if the league folds? Do you get your money back? I think the lure of online leagues is that anyone can play, its free, and in the right league: its downright fun, win OR lose. ...if it works, that is awesome! I'm just not sure I agree with the notion that a pay-league will keep "fly-by-nighters" out (props to Rush) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ...in fact, and this is in NO way a shot at this league, but I would suspect that a pay league is more likely to be "fly-by-night" than any owner could be. Guys don't join a league to quit, they join, and depending on what they expected, level of maturity (hehe...and I've been rather immature in the past) etc. may have them in and out with a snap of the fingers... ...a pay league could very well pop into existence just to make a buck. That alone is enough to make some people think a little bit... __________________ History isn't really about the past - settling old scores. It's about defining the present and who we are."

04-16-2002, 03:54 AM	#2
OOTPFan Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 8	I'd like to join and take the NY Yankees John Bates jsees@mail.com

04-16-2002, 07:50 AM	#4
JWay Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Posts: 5,031	please read the message on the front of the page. Teams won't be handed out until the last week of April and its first come first serve. But read the whole thing soon. Thanks

04-16-2002, 04:19 PM	#5
JWay Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Posts: 5,031	<a href="http://www.simleagues.com/msb/rules.html" target="_blank">http://www.simleagues.com/msb/rules.html</a> I got the Rules page up. Its still subject to change but its got all the INFO you'll need to join. Let me know of grammer errors or stuff that should be added jway@simleagues.com Thanks guys! <a href="http://www.simelagues.com/msb" target="_blank">http://www.simelagues.com/msb</a>

04-17-2002, 05:14 AM	#6
Cooleyvol Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Union City, TN Posts: 6,383	I think the pay issue is going to kill you on this league. Its been my experience that guys participate in this type of league for the fun and competition of it, not to make money. Most guys won't pay to be in a league, even if they have a chance of recouping their money. Just my opinion.........

04-17-2002, 05:44 AM	#8
Cooleyvol Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Union City, TN Posts: 6,383	I totally disagree with you. Your racing league is a bit different than a baseball league that can run multiple seasons in a year's time. I may be wrong, but I bet this has a hard time.... Your "fly by nighters" reference is WAY off base too. Just b/c a guy participates in online leagues for the competition and fun of it doesnt make him a fly by nighter! Have fun.

04-17-2002, 05:47 AM	#9
Matthew Iverson Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 26	I also agree. I think you're more inclined to put time and effort if you stand to lose money. Free leagues are great too, though. Obviously I think you should expect more if you pay money to join a league.. ie nice web page, updated frequently, stability and more. Good luck on your endeavor... I assume that all of the money is going into the prize pool. I would think taking a commish cut for profit might be frowned upon by the OOTP4 group.

04-17-2002, 05:56 AM	#12
Hammer755 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,348	I can definitely see both sides of this discussion. On one hand, because there's money involved, owners are more inclined to remain active, and try to constantly improve their team. However, as it stands right now, it's fairly easy to cheat in an online league, and with a large amount of money at stake ($250 is pretty substantial to me), I could see problems with cheating and collusion arising. Plus, paying out to the winner is in conflict with a lot of the strategy involved in joining an online league. Not every team's goal is to win the league title this year. Some GM's meticulously build a team over the course of a few years, and they are at a distinct disadvantage compared to teams that are willing to mortgage their future to win the money right now. If you have a 5 year plan, there's no guarantee that the league will still be around in 5 years.

04-17-2002, 05:58 AM	#13
Lee Kirk Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Guantanamo Bay, Cuba Posts: 55	"Good luck on your endeavor... I assume that all of the money is going into the prize pool. I would think taking a commish cut for profit might be frowned upon by the OOTP4 group." His website says the World Series Champion will receive $250! That's not bad for just a $15 investment. __________________ Lee Kirk President <a href="http://www.orcaracing.net" target="_blank">www.orcaracing.net</a>

04-17-2002, 06:02 AM	#14
Lee Kirk Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Guantanamo Bay, Cuba Posts: 55	"I can definitely see both sides of this discussion. On one hand, because there's money involved, owners are more inclined to remain active, and try to constantly improve their team. However, as it stands right now, it's fairly easy to cheat in an online league, and with a large amount of money at stake ($250 is pretty substantial to me), I could see problems with cheating and collusion arising." Well, as an online racing league owner, I can tell you that it gives me GREAT pleasure to reward my drivers with CASH. We offer $750 for the winner, so I doubt anyone would scam a baseball league for just $250, but I could be wrong. Either way, the concept is great and his website is top notch. Lee Kirk President <a href="http://www.orcaracing.net" target="_blank">www.orcaracing.net</a> (GO BRAVES!) __________________ Lee Kirk President <a href="http://www.orcaracing.net" target="_blank">www.orcaracing.net</a>

04-17-2002, 06:15 AM	#15
Hammer755 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,348	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lee Kirk: <strong> We offer $750 for the winner, so I doubt anyone would scam a baseball league for just $250, but I could be wrong. Either way, the concept is great and his website is top notch. Lee Kirk President <a href="http://www.orcaracing.net" target="_blank">www.orcaracing.net</a> (GO BRAVES!)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Believe me Lee, people scam leagues that are FREE. I've seen a couple of free OOTP leagues and too many free fantasy leagues to count where either two or more teams collude, or a single owner controls multiple teams. So I'd be pretty surprised of someone wouldn't do it for a couple hundred bucks. EDIT - Having seen JWay around these boards for awhile, I am definitely willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. He's giving away nearly all the money, and has included a rule that he, as commissioner, cannot win more than $15, so I think he's trying to do it right. I truly hope this works out for everyone involved, but I'm a pessimist at heart. <small>[ 04-17-2002, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: Hammer755 ]</small>

04-17-2002, 07:36 AM	#16
JWay Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Posts: 5,031	Alright I just woke up but. I made it a pay league for the owners to be active and be inspired. If the league does happen to fold I will make sure everyone gets their money back. Lots of people know me through simleagues. ebay. and other things. And Cooley, I had to try as so far the intrest is there I got plenty of emails asking where to send the money too. I sure hope this does work out becuase I got a lot of time into this already. I want an enjoyable Competitive League. I know I didn't get all the questions and stuff, just e-mail me and I'll get it right too you. JWay@simleagues.com Enjoy! Jordan

04-17-2002, 07:43 AM	#17
JWay Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Posts: 5,031	Oh, Also its 100% payout. And what the rules say go as far as me. I can't win more then $15 back. All that money is carryied over to next years pool almost doubling next years prize to $500. This isn't a one year and out I certainly would like to pull one of Tigers HOB leagues with this except starting in 2002. =D So if teams want to rebuild it certainly could be worth it. If you get a lot of top prospects and they reach their potential and you can get into the playoffs a few times and get a world series or two and your still way ahead. So April 28th I'll accept league fees. Whether its Paypal or money order or check or money. (yeah i know to many or's) I'll take it and put it into the savings accout for safe keeping until world series 2002 MSB. Thanks Remember I'll take questions at jway@simleagues.com

04-17-2002, 07:51 AM	#18
Cooleyvol Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Union City, TN Posts: 6,383	I wish you luck with it, but to have active, inspired owners, cash is not required. I have owners just like that in both my leagues and we dont use money. If you get the right mix of owners, the activity and inspiration comes automatically.

04-17-2002, 07:54 AM	#19
JWay Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Posts: 5,031	I know and that is cool. and Thank you for the luck

04-17-2002, 08:04 AM	#20
Cooleyvol Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Union City, TN Posts: 6,383