2013: Lack of quality 3Bs

[phightin]

I'm playing my dynasty started in 2008 with modern settings etc. Anyway i've noticed that I'm having the same problem in OOTP 10 as 9 in that now at 2013 there is a lack of quality of 3B. For whatever reason the computer creates prospects who are better hitters at 2B so now there are more dominant offensive 2B than 3B which is hard to grasp. Is anyone else noticing this, and is there anyway to fix it?

[tajoumaru]

I've noticed it in my games. On occasion I've wound up with hordes of second basemen--a typical roster will have one decent 3B and three 2B, sometimes four. I just correct this the hard way, by using commish mode and turning some of those 2B into 3B using the player editor.

[phightin]

yea frustrating stuff. In today's modern game following the offensive spectrum the majority of power hitters and better offensive players will be obviously DH-1B-LF-RF while the worst should be CF-2B-SS. 3B is obviously in between the 7 of them and should have the best pool of offensive talent as infielders, but for whatever reason they are behind 2B and even slightly behind SS. The game clearly lacks something when creating offensive talent at the 3B position. Suprised no one mentioned this before.

[Nutlaw]

Are these all players "Set As" second basemen and third basemen, or players who legitimately can only play one position or the other? A good number of players in OOTP and MLB can play both positions.

[Childress]

In my fictional league, half through the season, I get the following ranking of HR production among infielders: 2B, 1B, SS, 3B.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Nutlaw

Are these all players "Set As" second basemen and third basemen, or players who legitimately can only play one position or the other? A good number of players in OOTP and MLB can play both positions.

Yes they "can" play it, but for the most part they shouldn't. As a rule 2B have the weakest arm in that line of 2B, SS, 3B, so converting excess 2B to 3B leaves you with weak 3B play.

The previous poster noted that 2B seem to be the best power hitters in OOTP infields. This is not realistic at all. OOTP player creation should produce less 4 position IF and more 1B-3B and SS-2B combinations. Hitting power should generally favour the 1B-3B combination.

[Nutlaw]

Originally Posted by RchW

Yes they "can" play it, but for the most part they shouldn't.

Again, are the players being classified by their best natural position, the position they play most often, or the position that they are Set As? Everyone seems to be leaping to the conclusion that their findings are a result of faulty player creation, rather than possibly a quirk in AI usage.

[phightin]

Originally Posted by Nutlaw

Again, are the players being classified by their best natural position, the position they play most often, or the position that they are Set As? Everyone seems to be leaping to the conclusion that their findings are a result of faulty player creation, rather than possibly a quirk in AI usage.

Yes the players are being classified by their best natural position. I wish it were something as simple as a problem with AI usage but really it isn't. For whatever reasons there just doesn't seem to be better hitting out of the 3B positions but instead the 2B/SS. This is really a big problem that should be addressed to some extent, but I'm trying to figure out if it's a problem for everyone considering I seem to be the first person to bring it to anyone's attention here.

[Childress]

Originally Posted by RchW

The previous poster noted that 2B seem to be the best power hitters in OOTP infields.

Just quick-simmed a season with an OOTP generated fictional 2009 setup. The 3B guys widely led the infielders in HR production this time, followed by 1B men. The previous anomaly may have been the fruit of the 1970s Quickstart I was using.

[damientheomen3]

in my league where I've simmed 105 years, the career leader in HRs among 3Bs, a power position, has just over 400, while 9 different 2B, a position not known for power players with the longevity to hit a boatload of homers, reached the 500 HR plateau. Also, just 3 corner outfielders reached 500 homers

[Afino]

Even I've noticed in the GUBA, a league that's been going 12 seasons now, teams will pay out both ears for a quality 3B with power.

[Left-handed Badger]

I've noticed in past OOTPs, that the AI is frustratingly reluctant to carry a 2nd guy on the team with any 3B experience. I think every player I have ever come across to have played in 162 games in a year, was due to this.

[Left-handed Badger]

Originally Posted by RchW

Yes they "can" play it, but for the most part they shouldn't. As a rule 2B have the weakest arm in that line of 2B, SS, 3B, so converting excess 2B to 3B leaves you with weak 3B play.

The previous poster noted that 2B seem to be the best power hitters in OOTP infields. This is not realistic at all. OOTP player creation should produce less 4 position IF and more 1B-3B and SS-2B combinations. Hitting power should generally favour the 1B-3B combination.

Agreed, except most SS-2B in real life can play 3B also, as a general rule (at least among the utility IF variety)

[satchel]

Originally Posted by phightin

...I'm trying to figure out if it's a problem for everyone considering I seem to be the first person to bring it to anyone's attention here.

Due to the random nature of OOTP player creation, there is absolutely zero chance that the game consistently generates fewer quality 3Bs than it does at the other positions.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by satchel

Due to the random nature of OOTP player creation, there is absolutely zero chance that the game consistently generates fewer quality 3Bs than it does at the other positions.

Uh, no....

The game generates batting ratings differently for each posisition and apparently some think that the 2b, who historically should rate only above catchers and shortstops, have been taking steroids or maybe sucking the vital fluids from third basemen.

Didn't we used to be able to adjust PCM's by position or am I hallucinating?
I swear I remember figuring them....

[damientheomen3]

i dunno

[Nutlaw]

Originally Posted by Childress

Just quick-simmed a season with an OOTP generated fictional 2009 setup. The 3B guys widely led the infielders in HR production this time, followed by 1B men. The previous anomaly may have been the fruit of the 1970s Quickstart I was using.

Yeah, I'm not seeing middle infielders rack up HR with any great regularity either. In a random default fictional league (16 teams), the top 24 players ranked by HR only included two middle infielders: a third baseman who was temporarily playing as a poor shortstop out of necessity due to injury and one terrible defensive second baseman who would really fare much better as a first baseman on most teams.

[Alan T]

It definitely is not a problem with initial league creation at least. Our online league has only made it through 5 seasons so far since OOTP-X was released, so we aren't quite to the point where players created in the draft are showing their heads anywhere. Currently in the league history the first middle-infielder on the list of career home runs does not show up until #28 which looks just fine to me. There are numerous Outfielders, catchers, 1B, 3B in the list prior to that:

FOOL-X Home Run Leaders

So, the next step is to look at the players actually created in the draft and see if that is where the problem is, 2B and SS are created with too much power perhaps? I have no time machine to fast forward 10-15 years in this league, so the next best thing I can do is look at the top prospects list and see which prospects have the most power.

Now this is where things get interesting. I do indeed see many middle infielders have a large amount of power and seem to project to be future entries on the Career Home Run leaderboard. If I dig in further however, I notice something else. Every single middle infielder with large amount of power has the ability to play 1B and/or 3B just as well or better than 2B/SS. In some cases, the player can play both quite well and in other cases they actually don't play 2B/SS as well, but still have some rating there.

The 2B/SS prospects with less power all seem to be true middle infielders without any 1B/3B ratings or very little at all.

What I think is occuring, is a variant of what Nutlaw suggested, but not his exact theory. I think what is occuring is the game is creating too many 1B/3B who also have good enough fielding ability to play the MIddle Infield. The AI then decides that they are far more valuable there and puts most of their time in the minors at those positions. By the time they reach the Majors, their fielding ratings at 1B/3B have deteriorated (or maybe not), and they really now are slugging middle-infielders.

Keep in mind, most of this is not fact from my end, mostly speculation based on what I see in our online league. Give us 3 months and most of these players will be in the big leagues and I'll have a better feel for it.

[Afino]

But then that means it shouldn't happen in online leagues (for the most part), where the AI isn't making the decisions.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Afino

But then that means it shouldn't happen in online leagues (for the most part), where the AI isn't making the decisions.

Even in online leagues I think there is probably over 50% of owners who allow the AI to set up the rotations/lineups to play without worrying about it themselves. A fair number go through and ensure that the top prospects are getting the right amount of playtime and a small number go level by level and make sure every player is playing where they are.

You are right though that this might be more apparent in solo leagues though for that reason I bet.

Keep in mind, I am guessing based off of two simple reports I ran on our 5 years of history in ootpx so far. So it by no means is gospel. I could be completely wrong! I'm just trying to throw out a hypothesis based on what others are saying they are seeing correlated with the reality I know.