The playoffs are a joke - Page 2

tysok · 07-09-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik W.

At the league level, pro sports are a business, and businesses exist to make money. This has always been the case, and will always be the case. I'm not sure where the whole "purity of sport" angle comes from since that has never existed in professional sports.

Not in upper level amateur either. College, Olympics, etc... purity of sport exists in grade school maybe.

bababui · 07-09-2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tysok

What league doesn't?
No one crowns the best team, they crown the most consistent team in a minimal stretch.
The NFL crowns the best consistent team in their 6 week (?) playoff tournament. Not the undefeated team through the other 16 games.
College basketball crowns the best team through their limited playoff set.
College football crowns the better team of the two chosen by some bunch of talking heads.
The NBA crowns who was the best through their limited playoff tournament (even if it does take 5 months to play that tournament).
Baseball has never crowned the best team any more than the other sports.

The World Series was created to bring in revenue, best of 9 game series in 1903, 1919, 1920, and 1921. When the entire post season was begun in order to bring in more money, can anyone be surprised when the only reason for expanding the post season tournament is to bring in more money?

I would love it (although I know it will never happen) if baseball used a soccer model. Have the single table to decide the league champs. Then, have a cup comp where teams will play 3 game knockout series every month or so with the winner being Cup champ. Also, the two league champs would meet at the end of the season for the North American Championship. Its inaccurate to call it the World Series,

jasonn29tn14 · 07-09-2009, 01:47 PM

What's really a joke is awarding the home field advantage of the championship round of those playoffs to the winners of a meaningless exhibition game. And what makes it worse is when many players in this meaningless exhibition game are playing for sub .500 teams and could care less about the post season. You've gotta love what Bud Selig has done for baseball.........

bababui · 07-09-2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik W.

At the league level, pro sports are a business, and businesses exist to make money. This has always been the case, and will always be the case. I'm not sure where the whole "purity of sport" angle comes from since that has never existed in professional sports.

Please name me a single soccer league outside of the USA

that uses divisions or other cynical manipulations to make more money?

toxicavenger74 · 07-09-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tysok

Not in upper level amateur either. College, Olympics, etc... purity of sport exists in grade school maybe.

Isn't everybody a winner in grade school? So, no purity doesn't exist there.

Erik W. · 07-09-2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

Please name me a single soccer league outside of the USA

that uses divisions or other cynical manipulations to make more money?

Divisions didn't come about to make money. Divisions in MLB started when teams began moving to the other coast before teams were using planes to fly to their next destination.

You're also ignoring the differences between both cultures and the sports at hand.

bababui · 07-09-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik W.

Divisions didn't come about to make money. Divisions in MLB started when teams began moving to the other coast before teams were using planes to fly to their next destination.

You're also ignoring the differences between both cultures and the sports at hand.

Divisions started in 1969..long after teams were using airplanes to travel. While there are differences, does that really change the fact that North American sports are driven almost purely by financial motives? While baseball has a better record than the other three major sports, it could certainly be better. There is plenty of money to be made by keeping things as simple and as honest as possible.

Erik W. · 07-09-2009, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

While there are differences, does that really change the fact that North American sports are driven almost purely by financial motives?

I'd argue that, with the exception of the NFL, leagues in the US are driven more by survival than profit (and even the NFL is experiencing lean times right now, forcing them to lay off league employees). On the team level, the vast majority of owners are losing money.

You're also overlooking the fact that most baseball fans like the division set-up and wildcard. It's only the most rabid purists (and you, who seems to just like the European way of doing things more) who grumble about it.

tysok · 07-09-2009, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

I would love it (although I know it will never happen) if baseball used a soccer model. Have the single table to decide the league champs. Then, have a cup comp where teams will play 3 game knockout series every month or so with the winner being Cup champ. Also, the two league champs would meet at the end of the season for the North American Championship. Its inaccurate to call it the World Series,

Ah, true on all counts. But soccer is boring so I discount your viewpoint.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonn29tn14

What's really a joke is awarding the home field advantage of the championship round of those playoffs to the winners of a meaningless exhibition game. And what makes it worse is when many players in this meaningless exhibition game are playing for sub .500 teams and could care less about the post season. You've gotta love what Bud Selig has done for baseball.........

Why not base home field advantage on the number of players in each league with the letter A in their last name... makes about as much sense, and might even be more fair.

Although, if it weren't for the "outrage" of the imbecile fans (that we're even a member of) over that All Star game ending in a tie Selig wouldn't have changed it. We, the fans, are responsible for them trying to "make it count" because we, as a whole, are too stupid to realize it's a meaningless game that's played entirely for entertainment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxicavenger74

Isn't everybody a winner in grade school? So, no purity doesn't exist there.

Blah... okay maybe purity existed in grade school before we had to start sheltering our children from negative connotations. At this point... everyone is good enough, strong enough, and dahgonit people like us!

tysok · 07-09-2009, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

Divisions started in 1969..long after teams were using airplanes to travel. While there are differences, does that really change the fact that North American sports are driven almost purely by financial motives? While baseball has a better record than the other three major sports, it could certainly be better. There is plenty of money to be made by keeping things as simple and as honest as possible.

It also doesn't change the fact that North Americans are driven almost purely by financial motives. Since, as a society, we're all out for individual profit why shouldn't our sports franchises do the same?

I don't know of what I speak of here really... but isn't the three major sports in NA responsible for creating far (FAR) more multimillionaires than soccer as a whole? With the players of the three major sports demanding more money every time they touch the field it would stand that the franchise itself has to be more concerned with trying to make the dollars to keep them touching that field.

eriqjaffe · 07-09-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Plus how many Wild Card teams have won the World Series lately? Florida, St Louis, Detroit. Who am I missing?

Detroit didn't win.

Erik W. · 07-09-2009, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Plus how many Wild Card teams have won the World Series lately? Florida, St Louis, Detroit. Who am I missing?

As mentioned above, Detroit didn't win. St. Louis wasn't a wild-card.

The four wild-cards to win the Series:

'97 Marlins
'02 Angels
'03 Marlins
'04 Red Sox

bababui · 07-09-2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik W.

I'd argue that, with the exception of the NFL, leagues in the US are driven more by survival than profit (and even the NFL is experiencing lean times right now, forcing them to lay off league employees). On the team level, the vast majority of owners are losing money.

You're also overlooking the fact that most baseball fans like the division set-up and wildcard. It's only the most rabid purists (and you, who seems to just like the European way of doing things more) who grumble about it.

Maybe you are right. I prefer a simpler way of doing things I guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tysok

Ah, true on all counts. But soccer is boring so I discount your viewpoint.

Point taken sir.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tysok

It also doesn't change the fact that North Americans are driven almost purely by financial motives. Since, as a society, we're all out for individual profit why shouldn't our sports franchises do the same?

I don't know of what I speak of here really... but isn't the three major sports in NA responsible for creating far (FAR) more multimillionaires than soccer as a whole? With the players of the three major sports demanding more money every time they touch the field it would stand that the franchise itself has to be more concerned with trying to make the dollars to keep them touching that field.

Actually, the biggest European soccer teams are worth more, and spend more, than US teams. An extreme example are the 4 summer signings by Real Madrid this summer worth about $250mil (not including wages). One of those players, Cristiano Ronaldo, will be getting something like 400K a WEEK.

What amazes me is that soccer/football can bring in massive amounts of revenue without interrupting their games for commercials. I think American sports can learn something from them and keep our games as pure as possible while still getting rich in the process. Sports teams belong to the larger community IMO.

tysok · 07-09-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik W.

As mentioned above, Detroit didn't win. St. Louis wasn't a wild-card.

The four wild-cards to win the Series:

'97 Marlins
'02 Angels
'03 Marlins
'04 Red Sox

And the Marlins will win the wild card and the World Series this year, thus maintaining their 6 year pattern.

d. tetree · 07-09-2009, 03:19 PM

double posted

d. tetree · 07-09-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

What amazes me is that soccer/football can bring in massive amounts of revenue without interrupting their games for commercials. I think American sports can learn something from them and keep our games as pure as possible while still getting rich in the process. Sports teams belong to the larger community IMO.

I agree about the teams belonging to the community, but don't soccer teams fill their jerseys with corporate sponsors in lieu of playing John Mellancamp's "This Is Our Country" ad fifty times a game during commercial break? I don't think fans want that here, as evidenced by the outrage over MLB's idea to put Spiderman 2 logos on the bases for the All-Star game a few years ago.

tysok · 07-09-2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d. tetree

I agree about the teams belonging to the community, but don't soccer teams fill their jerseys with corporate sponsors in lieu of playing John Mellancamp's "This Is Our Country" ad fifty times a game during commercial break? I don't think fans want that here, as evidenced by the outrage over MLB's idea to put Spiderman 2 logos on the bases for the All-Star game a few years ago.

Yes, more fan stupidity. The bases could be orange with 5 different advertisement stickers on them for all I care... I'm looking for WHO's on the base, not WHAT's on it.

I could see a reaction like that if the logos were plastered on the players backs (although there are occasions where it would be perfect placement - like an ad for Suzuki motorcycles on the back of Ichiro... or maybe an ad for Desperate Housewives on the back of Evan Longoria.

).

Scott Vibert · 07-09-2009, 03:31 PM

How about the World Champion 1987 Twins? They would have finished 5th in the AL East that year, and won the World Series, winning only their home games in the Series (the AL had home field based on alternating seasons).

tysok · 07-09-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Vibert

How about the World Champion 1987 Twins? They would have finished 5th in the AL East that year, and won the World Series, winning only their home games in the Series (the AL had home field based on alternating seasons).

They don't count because I disliked them.
Beat the Royals by 2 games... they should have lost big.

d. tetree · 07-09-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tysok

Yes, more fan stupidity. The bases could be orange with 5 different advertisement stickers on them for all I care... I'm looking for WHO's on the base, not WHAT's on it.

I could see a reaction like that if the logos were plastered on the players backs (although there are occasions where it would be perfect placement - like an ad for Suzuki motorcycles on the back of Ichiro... or maybe an ad for Desperate Housewives on the back of Evan Longoria.

).

Isn't that what I was referencing? I made a comment about how European soccer players had logos ON THEIR JERSEYS...which you just agreed with me would be bad. I think we're on the same page here.

07-09-2009, 03:19 PM	#35
d. tetree Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 34	double posted Last edited by d. tetree; 07-09-2009 at 03:21 PM.

07-09-2009, 01:47 PM	#23
jasonn29tn14 Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 320	What's really a joke is awarding the home field advantage of the championship round of those playoffs to the winners of a meaningless exhibition game. And what makes it worse is when many players in this meaningless exhibition game are playing for sub .500 teams and could care less about the post season. You've gotta love what Bud Selig has done for baseball.........

07-09-2009, 03:31 PM	#38
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,209	How about the World Champion 1987 Twins? They would have finished 5th in the AL East that year, and won the World Series, winning only their home games in the Series (the AL had home field based on alternating seasons).