Useful & intelligent minor league AI managing?

HonusWagner · 06-25-2009, 06:30 PM

In version 9 the AI minor league management is simply a joke. Has it been improved significantly in version X?

I am referring of course to the apparently zero consideration applied to signing players, assigning roles, and promoting/demoting. After one season of using AI managers I cannot recognize my organization. Total butcher job. Signing of 33yo FAs for short A, pushing 20 yo prospects onto the bench; on 30 man rosters having 9 pitchers and 21 fielders, ensuring my staff play in perpetual exhaustion and my fielders dont play at all; having prospects ready to move up but cant because they are blocked by 31 yo MLB vets having *hot* seasons in A ball, etc etc.

Have these issues been radically improved upon?

Once again I reach a threshold with this game. I have reached a few thus far and have managed to keep playing. However, with the work required to oversee an entire organization feeling more like work work than fun, this may be the final threshold. So something is at stake here.

HonusWagner · 06-25-2009, 08:44 PM

le bump

StyxNCa · 06-25-2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HonusWagner

In version 9 the AI minor league management is simply a joke. Has it been improved significantly in version X?

I am referring of course to the apparently zero consideration applied to signing players, assigning roles, and promoting/demoting. After one season of using AI managers I cannot recognize my organization. Total butcher job. Signing of 33yo FAs for short A, pushing 20 yo prospects onto the bench; on 30 man rosters having 9 pitchers and 21 fielders, ensuring my staff play in perpetual exhaustion and my fielders dont play at all; having prospects ready to move up but cant because they are blocked by 31 yo MLB vets having *hot* seasons in A ball, etc etc.

Have these issues been radically improved upon?

Once again I reach a threshold with this game. I have reached a few thus far and have managed to keep playing. However, with the work required to oversee an entire organization feeling more like work work than fun, this may be the final threshold. So something is at stake here.

I've been afraid to even try to find out after the work it took to get my minors back to where I had them, or as close as I could get them. I'm waiting to hear about it as well.

lt2cents · 06-25-2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StyxNCa

I've been afraid to even try to find out after the work it took to get my minors back to where I had them, or as close as I could get them. I'm waiting to hear about it as well.

If they did anything it wasn't much -- such a long way to go. If you are an immersion player it is nothing but disappointing that nearly all the ideas put into the suggestions forum were ignored. They seem to want to satisfy the season replay folks. Maybe that is where they think their customers are.

ShermLollar · 06-25-2009, 11:55 PM

I must admit to being a bit disappointed at the player distribution in the minor league system. I started up a league with the MLB 2009 quick start as GM of the White Sox. The minor's are set up pretty well with the exception of the Rookie League team. The roster has 30 players...25 pitchers and 5 batters, 4 of whom are catchers. ???

SteveP · 06-26-2009, 12:22 AM

The 2009 MLB game was put together by people -- volunteers -- who tried to identify as many of the RL players as they could, and to give them suitable ratings. Any shortcomings that people find can be easily rectified by using the editing features built into the game and/or by deleting/adding players if you wish.

Rand · 06-26-2009, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lt2cents

If they did anything it wasn't much -- such a long way to go. If you are an immersion player it is nothing but disappointing that nearly all the ideas put into the suggestions forum were ignored. They seem to want to satisfy the season replay folks. Maybe that is where they think their customers are.

Ironically from what I've read the season replay people seem convinced Markus is ignoring them in favor of those playing fictional... likely the truth is somewhere between the two extremes.

Not to undermine the issue, just amused that both sides think their ignored in favor of the other.

Rand · 06-26-2009, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveP

The 2009 MLB game was put together by people -- volunteers -- who tried to identify as many of the RL players as they could, and to give them suitable ratings. Any shortcomings that people find can be easily rectified by using the editing features built into the game and/or by deleting/adding players if you wish.

I don't think their complains have anything to do with the roster set, but how the AI handles it and where they put players.
How the players are rated in the roster set, and how many RL players are on it is largely immaterial to the issue.
It would still be there even if all the players were fictional.

hmatthias · 06-26-2009, 09:10 AM

All seem fine except for rookie league, which I don't care about much anyways as it will all change once the draft happens, before the rookie league season starts. Has anyone put a minimum age on the rookie league to coax the AI into releasing no-hopers?

KySteveH · 06-26-2009, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveP

The 2009 MLB game was put together by people -- volunteers -- who tried to identify as many of the RL players as they could, and to give them suitable ratings. Any shortcomings that people find can be easily rectified by using the editing features built into the game and/or by deleting/adding players if you wish.

LOL, the rosters are excellent on day one. Once the brain-dead minor league logic starts up, then you have issues. I'm sure there's some combination of "settings" that will cause the AI to manage players in some sane way. Now, actually finding out what those are, that is a bit harder.

SteveP · 06-26-2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rand

I don't think their complains have anything to do with the roster set, but how the AI handles it and where they put players.

I don't have too much interest in the complaints, per se, as they seem to be a variation on the all too familiar "the artificial intelligence isn't intelligent" refrain -- which is about as likely to lead to something useful as complaining that the winters are too cold and the summers too hot. The guys have their hands full trying to maintain a relatively complex AI, as it is. They are making improvements all the time, but it is very incremental and pretty much has to be.

jar2574 · 06-26-2009, 02:55 PM

I allow the AI managers to promote and demote and to set lineups. I do not allow them to sign new players or release anyone. I have been satisfied with the results.

I try to make sure my top 10 prospects are playing somewhere in the system. So far they have always been playing every time I looked, at various levels in the system.

Each year I cut everyone that is too old for their respective minor league level. I usually cull about 10-15 players that way.

The promotion, demotion system seems to be working. I've seen guys move two levels in a given year, but more often good players move up about one level each year.

hmatthias · 06-26-2009, 04:03 PM

Do you see alot of up and down movement? Seemed like I did when I had the computer manage this, which is why I went back to managing the minors. It is annoying, but I like to keep some players at the same level for a bit.

Mortimer · 06-26-2009, 04:32 PM

I managed a short season A team in both 9 and 10, I have noticed less movement over all by far. in 9 I had everyday people moving, not it seems the move for injury, or season endings mostly.

like I had a shift when the rookie season was over, and a big shift sept 1st when they MLB went to 40 man rosters. but over all it made since, I did not get many guys go up then back down, nor did they take my best players and move them to the rookie legue, which happened some in 9.

I think over all the is an improvemtn but like any AI there are some holes you can find if you nit pick enough

SteveP · 06-26-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hmatthias

Do you see alot of up and down movement? Seemed like I did when I had the computer manage this, which is why I went back to managing the minors. It is annoying, but I like to keep some players at the same level for a bit.

There is a lot more churn in the minors when the AI is in control, than you would see in real life. My guess is that there are set intervals (because it's an AI) when the AI evaluates and makes moves. Probably weekly, but I haven't really tracked it. Assuming that's the case, if you have a player who is borderline, he may move up one week and move back down the next. It may not look good to you, but it doesn't have any practical negative effect on player development.

hmatthias · 06-26-2009, 04:46 PM

Thanks, that is good to know. I may go back to automating that. Is kind of a pain to check it daily. I like to just look at the transactions to see what is going on.

Grunthos · 06-26-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

My guess is that there are set intervals

That's probably part of it, but the other major factor seems to be that the AI refuses to have any "float" in the minor league rosters, i.e. there will be *exactly* 25 active players per team, per day, all the time... and if there's an injury, or someone gets released, or comes off IR, then it *immediately* rectifies the situation with call-ups and/or send-downs. I handle promotions myself, and make my own life a lot easier by starting the season with ~30 players at each minor league club, so that the inevitable lineup/rotation gaps from injuries just get absorbed by the extras. If the extra players are overage scrubs, then the AI won't generally give them playing time ahead of actual prospects. And bingo, you have a system where guys get experience at the level you want them to, without requiring more than 3-4 quick once-overs per month on the transactions screen.

RchW · 06-26-2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jar2574

Each year I cut everyone that is too old for their respective minor league level. I usually cull about 10-15 players that way.

This is a critical and good move IMO. I do this too and it ensures that young players get a chance to play. Now I do keep a couple of older players in AAA just in case I need an experienced backup due to injury.

trapper · 06-26-2009, 05:21 PM

I play one league where I am simming games and going through seasons pretty quick. I had to turn off the minor league singings but left the AI in charge of lineups, promotions, demotions, etc. It does a reasonable job of developping players through your system. But if you get worried about individual moves you probably won't be happy. What I mean by this is that at the end of the year you might look at player and say "ok he played 50 games in AA and 40 games in AAA, sounds reasonable." Wheras if you follow their course throughout the season you might find that they ended up this way because they were one week in AA, one week in AAA throughout the season.

Another way to do it if you sim games is to turn movement off but then use the "ask coach" button a few times a year. This way you don't have wierd movement all the time.

It is also crucial regardless to as many others have suggested and cut old players each year. You have to cut 15-20 each year just to ensure you don't wind up with 50 players in rookie ball.

PhillieFever · 06-26-2009, 08:09 PM

It seems to me that,you get better results controlling the minor league promotions/demotions yourself while letting the AI handle the day to day activities.The AI does a pretty good job of setting lineups/rotations/relief strategies/yada yada yada

06-25-2009, 06:30 PM	#1
HonusWagner All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 521	Useful & intelligent minor league AI managing? In version 9 the AI minor league management is simply a joke. Has it been improved significantly in version X? I am referring of course to the apparently zero consideration applied to signing players, assigning roles, and promoting/demoting. After one season of using AI managers I cannot recognize my organization. Total butcher job. Signing of 33yo FAs for short A, pushing 20 yo prospects onto the bench; on 30 man rosters having 9 pitchers and 21 fielders, ensuring my staff play in perpetual exhaustion and my fielders dont play at all; having prospects ready to move up but cant because they are blocked by 31 yo MLB vets having hot seasons in A ball, etc etc. Have these issues been radically improved upon? Once again I reach a threshold with this game. I have reached a few thus far and have managed to keep playing. However, with the work required to oversee an entire organization feeling more like work work than fun, this may be the final threshold. So something is at stake here. Last edited by HonusWagner; 06-25-2009 at 06:31 PM.

06-26-2009, 08:09 PM	#20
PhillieFever Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Elk Twp. NJ Posts: 6,763	It seems to me that,you get better results controlling the minor league promotions/demotions yourself while letting the AI handle the day to day activities.The AI does a pretty good job of setting lineups/rotations/relief strategies/yada yada yada __________________ We're All Wednesday Aren't We? WAWAW

06-25-2009, 08:44 PM	#2
HonusWagner All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 521	le bump

06-25-2009, 11:55 PM	#5
ShermLollar Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 20	I must admit to being a bit disappointed at the player distribution in the minor league system. I started up a league with the MLB 2009 quick start as GM of the White Sox. The minor's are set up pretty well with the exception of the Rookie League team. The roster has 30 players...25 pitchers and 5 batters, 4 of whom are catchers. ???

06-26-2009, 12:22 AM	#6
SteveP Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,109	The 2009 MLB game was put together by people -- volunteers -- who tried to identify as many of the RL players as they could, and to give them suitable ratings. Any shortcomings that people find can be easily rectified by using the editing features built into the game and/or by deleting/adding players if you wish.

06-26-2009, 09:10 AM	#9
hmatthias Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 82	All seem fine except for rookie league, which I don't care about much anyways as it will all change once the draft happens, before the rookie league season starts. Has anyone put a minimum age on the rookie league to coax the AI into releasing no-hopers?

06-26-2009, 02:55 PM	#12
jar2574 Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 405	I allow the AI managers to promote and demote and to set lineups. I do not allow them to sign new players or release anyone. I have been satisfied with the results. I try to make sure my top 10 prospects are playing somewhere in the system. So far they have always been playing every time I looked, at various levels in the system. Each year I cut everyone that is too old for their respective minor league level. I usually cull about 10-15 players that way. The promotion, demotion system seems to be working. I've seen guys move two levels in a given year, but more often good players move up about one level each year.

06-26-2009, 04:03 PM	#13
hmatthias Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 82	Do you see alot of up and down movement? Seemed like I did when I had the computer manage this, which is why I went back to managing the minors. It is annoying, but I like to keep some players at the same level for a bit.

06-26-2009, 04:32 PM	#14
Mortimer Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 198	I managed a short season A team in both 9 and 10, I have noticed less movement over all by far. in 9 I had everyday people moving, not it seems the move for injury, or season endings mostly. like I had a shift when the rookie season was over, and a big shift sept 1st when they MLB went to 40 man rosters. but over all it made since, I did not get many guys go up then back down, nor did they take my best players and move them to the rookie legue, which happened some in 9. I think over all the is an improvemtn but like any AI there are some holes you can find if you nit pick enough

06-26-2009, 04:46 PM	#16
hmatthias Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 82	Thanks, that is good to know. I may go back to automating that. Is kind of a pain to check it daily. I like to just look at the transactions to see what is going on.

06-26-2009, 05:21 PM	#19
trapper Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 114	I play one league where I am simming games and going through seasons pretty quick. I had to turn off the minor league singings but left the AI in charge of lineups, promotions, demotions, etc. It does a reasonable job of developping players through your system. But if you get worried about individual moves you probably won't be happy. What I mean by this is that at the end of the year you might look at player and say "ok he played 50 games in AA and 40 games in AAA, sounds reasonable." Wheras if you follow their course throughout the season you might find that they ended up this way because they were one week in AA, one week in AAA throughout the season. Another way to do it if you sim games is to turn movement off but then use the "ask coach" button a few times a year. This way you don't have wierd movement all the time. It is also crucial regardless to as many others have suggested and cut old players each year. You have to cut 15-20 each year just to ensure you don't wind up with 50 players in rookie ball.