Injuries and how they work---PING Markus...

Matter2003 · 06-15-2009, 09:02 PM

OK, I could spend lots of time doing studies on this, or I could just try and ask those who were part of the beta and/or Markus who probably already know the information I am asking.

What I would like to know is how exactly(or as exact as you are willing to disclose to us) it is determined "who" gets hurt on a play. There are a couple factors at play, and I would like to know how each factors into the equation.

1) Injury Frequency in the injury.txt file: Is this used to determine an injury after the player is selected, or is the injury type selected first based on the frequency, and then the player is selected? Personally I would think the player is selected first, and then an injury type is selected based on how frequently they occur. Basically what I am getting at here is that I don't believe changing the injury frequency of a certain type of injury(for instance one that occurs only when pitching or only during a collision) would have any effect on the player who is injured. For instance if I make all pitching injuries a frequency 5 and all hitting injuries a frequency 1, it wouldn't cause pitchers to become injured more than hitters(at least the way I am assuming how things work).

2) Injury Proneness: If I were to change all position players to be half as injury prone across the board and increase pitchers injury proneness by 50%, would this lead to more pitchers being injured than hitters? Or is this ratio controlled by something else as well, in which injury proneness is only a small part of the formula? If proneness is the only determining factor in how often players get injured, the fix seems simple----drastically reduce position player proneness and drastically increase pitcher proneness. The actual implementation of this is extremely difficult due to lack of a global ratings editor and as far as I know, the impossibility of importing the player.csv dump after changing all the proneness ratings of players. This would make life so much easier in changing player ratings globally across a league or universe...

I am asking this in the attempt to fix the drastic over-injuring of position players in relation to pitchers. Currently the ratio is about 64/36 positions players/pitchers getting injured and it needs to be 45/55 or somewhere in there position players/pitchers---especially for the more serious ones in which pitchers' arms, shoulders and elbows are much more frequently severely injured....

An answer to this would be greatly appreciated so I can know definitively how to proceed with attempting to fix this, or if this can be included in a patch, as the overall rate of injuries is pretty good, but the actual position player/pitcher distribution of the injuries is severely out of whack...

Cryomaniac · 06-15-2009, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matter2003

The actual implementation of this is extremely difficult due to lack of a global ratings editor[...]

I'm blatently not Markus, but maybe he could add 2 values to the game options menu (where the player development modifiers are) that say "Global pitcher injury proneness" and "Global position player proneness".

cody8200 · 06-15-2009, 10:22 PM

I'm pretty sure that long term batter injuries are being turned way down in the first patch. I think I read something from Injury Log about that. Let me check. BTW, I know that doesn't answer your original question but this issue is definitely being addressed in a patch (either #1 or #2).

Curtis · 06-15-2009, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matter2003

I am asking this in the attempt to fix the drastic over-injuring of position players in relation to pitchers. Currently the ratio is about 64/36 positions players/pitchers getting injured and it needs to be 45/55 or somewhere in there position players/pitchers---especially for the more serious ones in which pitchers' arms, shoulders and elbows are much more frequently severely injured....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Maybe he could add 2 values to the game options menu (where the player development modifiers are) that say "Global pitcher injury proneness" and "Global position player proneness".

Assuming I understand what Injury Log has posted on this topic, he seems to feel that injuries under three months have approximately the correct proportions, but injuries of three months and longer should be about 25 position/75 pitcher. A global proness setting wouldn't address that, would it?

Matter2003 · 06-15-2009, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curtis

A global proness setting wouldn't address that, would it?

No, but allowing a global edit to proneness by position would...

endgame · 06-15-2009, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curtis

A global proness setting wouldn't address that, would it?

Mass edit, global proness adjustments. You always think big, don't you Curtis? Next? Sweeping financial interventions by a league's governing body. You only thought you had a scouting budget for this year.

Curtis · 06-15-2009, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

Mass edit, global proness adjustments. You always think big, don't you Curtis? Next? Sweeping financial interventions by a league's governing body. You only thought you had a scouting budget for this year.

Off topic, but you're right. If defensive ratings get improved in patch two, my big goal for Version 11 would become a global reorginization of the financial model. I think mass select has now become a windmill.

injury log · 06-17-2009, 07:31 PM

Injury numbers were pretty good in the release, but the batter/pitcher breakdown was well off. I'm confident the first patch will improve this, though I won't say it's perfect until I collect some data.

To respond to Matter2003's questions:

1- the game decides an injury occurs first, then looks to injuries.txt to choose a diagnosis. So adjusting the frequency numbers can make, say, 'hamstring strain' more common than 'thoracic outlet syndrome', but it won't make pitcher injuries more common than batter injuries;

2- no one knows, besides Markus, just how the proneness ratings affect injury frequency, so I can't offer any new info there.

As I said in another thread, pitchers do not get injured more often than batters - that's simply untrue. What is true is that pitcher injuries last longer than batter injuries when they actually happen. That's an important fact to get right in any injury model, and the first release of OOTP-X didn't have this right - the patch, I hope, will improve things.

06-15-2009, 10:22 PM	#3
cody8200 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,436	I'm pretty sure that long term batter injuries are being turned way down in the first patch. I think I read something from Injury Log about that. Let me check. BTW, I know that doesn't answer your original question but this issue is definitely being addressed in a patch (either #1 or #2). Last edited by cody8200; 06-15-2009 at 10:27 PM.

06-15-2009, 09:02 PM	#1
Matter2003 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: In the vicinity of Buffalo,NY Posts: 1,634	Injuries and how they work---PING Markus... OK, I could spend lots of time doing studies on this, or I could just try and ask those who were part of the beta and/or Markus who probably already know the information I am asking. What I would like to know is how exactly(or as exact as you are willing to disclose to us) it is determined "who" gets hurt on a play. There are a couple factors at play, and I would like to know how each factors into the equation. 1) Injury Frequency in the injury.txt file: Is this used to determine an injury after the player is selected, or is the injury type selected first based on the frequency, and then the player is selected? Personally I would think the player is selected first, and then an injury type is selected based on how frequently they occur. Basically what I am getting at here is that I don't believe changing the injury frequency of a certain type of injury(for instance one that occurs only when pitching or only during a collision) would have any effect on the player who is injured. For instance if I make all pitching injuries a frequency 5 and all hitting injuries a frequency 1, it wouldn't cause pitchers to become injured more than hitters(at least the way I am assuming how things work). 2) Injury Proneness: If I were to change all position players to be half as injury prone across the board and increase pitchers injury proneness by 50%, would this lead to more pitchers being injured than hitters? Or is this ratio controlled by something else as well, in which injury proneness is only a small part of the formula? If proneness is the only determining factor in how often players get injured, the fix seems simple----drastically reduce position player proneness and drastically increase pitcher proneness. The actual implementation of this is extremely difficult due to lack of a global ratings editor and as far as I know, the impossibility of importing the player.csv dump after changing all the proneness ratings of players. This would make life so much easier in changing player ratings globally across a league or universe... I am asking this in the attempt to fix the drastic over-injuring of position players in relation to pitchers. Currently the ratio is about 64/36 positions players/pitchers getting injured and it needs to be 45/55 or somewhere in there position players/pitchers---especially for the more serious ones in which pitchers' arms, shoulders and elbows are much more frequently severely injured.... An answer to this would be greatly appreciated so I can know definitively how to proceed with attempting to fix this, or if this can be included in a patch, as the overall rate of injuries is pretty good, but the actual position player/pitcher distribution of the injuries is severely out of whack... __________________ Goal Line Stand Football---An Open Source Project Check us out on the Git Hub Pages: Goal-Line-Stand-Football

06-17-2009, 07:31 PM	#8
injury log Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,162	Injury numbers were pretty good in the release, but the batter/pitcher breakdown was well off. I'm confident the first patch will improve this, though I won't say it's perfect until I collect some data. To respond to Matter2003's questions: 1- the game decides an injury occurs first, then looks to injuries.txt to choose a diagnosis. So adjusting the frequency numbers can make, say, 'hamstring strain' more common than 'thoracic outlet syndrome', but it won't make pitcher injuries more common than batter injuries; 2- no one knows, besides Markus, just how the proneness ratings affect injury frequency, so I can't offer any new info there. As I said in another thread, pitchers do not get injured more often than batters - that's simply untrue. What is true is that pitcher injuries last longer than batter injuries when they actually happen. That's an important fact to get right in any injury model, and the first release of OOTP-X didn't have this right - the patch, I hope, will improve things.