Do you use feeders?

neojonas · 06-09-2009, 01:25 PM

I've never really used feeder leagues in previous versions of OOTP because I read too many posts that scared me away from them. I really like the idea of watching a player develop before the June draft occurs to allow a more realistic draft experience by giving me more then made up ratings to draft off of. So for awhile now I've been testing feeders to figure out the best configuration and I'm thinking about going with them for my main OOTPX league. I've been pretty impressed with them. I'm curious how many others use feeder leagues or are thinking about going with them in OOTPX.

Raidergoo · 06-09-2009, 01:43 PM

Lately, I have been using them a lot.

jtnlange · 06-09-2009, 01:50 PM

In my fictional league, I use a modified NCAA 256 team college feeder league. In the test sims I did before hand I did not find any issues that would lead me not to use a feeder. I really enjoy watching a player as he moves through college and then decide if he is worth the pick to get him. Sometimes it works out and sometimes not.

Trevor L.

johndoe8865 · 06-09-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neojonas

I've never really used feeder leagues in previous versions of OOTP because I read too many posts that scared me away from them. I really like the idea of watching a player develop before the June draft occurs to allow a more realistic draft experience by giving me more then made up ratings to draft off of. So for awhile now I've been testing feeders to figure out the best configuration and I'm thinking about going with them for my main OOTPX league. I've been pretty impressed with them. I'm curious how many others use feeder leagues or are thinking about going with them in OOTPX.

Please let us know how your tests go and what you decide. I'm seriously considering trying this for OOTPX myself.

TribeFanInNC · 06-09-2009, 03:41 PM

I haven't used feeders before until I started playing around with them during beta this year. I'm going to try to implement them in my first fictional league and I joined an online league that uses them as I like the concept.

gord · 06-09-2009, 04:56 PM

I like the concept as well but have been scared off b/c of possible issues with talent flooding or slowing the game down. Since my amateur scouting has been hit-and-miss (mostly miss) I'm thinking about giving it a try.

bababui · 06-09-2009, 04:59 PM

I use high school and college feeders. It also gives players in the draft some history.

Cryomaniac · 06-09-2009, 06:10 PM

I like the idea, but they don't really work much like real life. For college leagues the option should be minimum age and years of eligibilty, not maximum age. High school graduates that aren't drafted should sometimes go to college and sometimes just retire.

bababui · 06-09-2009, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

I like the idea, but they don't really work much like real life. For college leagues the option should be minimum age and years of eligibilty, not maximum age. High school graduates that aren't drafted should sometimes go to college and sometimes just retire.

I agree in principle. In practice it will be difficult to program and will take two or three iyerations to perfect. I suppose we will get it though in OOTPXV

Storm · 06-09-2009, 06:16 PM

I can't seem to get feeder's to work the way I want. So no, I don't use them in historical replays, but in fictional leagues, I'm all for them.

jayharvill · 06-09-2009, 06:39 PM

What ratio of ML teams to feeder teams are you guys using?

I know there have been numerous posts made in the past about this question, but I'm curious about ratios being used in OOTPX

Muzamba · 06-09-2009, 07:00 PM

IMO, this is an aspect of the game that deserves immediate attention, not because it's fatally flawed, but because it could so easily be improved.

There should be 3 levels of feeders: High School, 2-Year College and 4-Year College. High School should feed 2-Year College, 4-Year College and the major league draft, while 2-Year College should feed 4-Year College and the draft, and 4-Year College should feed only the draft.

Also, team financials should be available. One should at least be able to set market size, fan interest/loyalty, cash, budget, merchandising and media contracts to help distinguish the elite programs from the less successful programs.

And even though monetary contracts shouldn't be given to players in feeder leagues, there should be a free agency system for the 2-Year College and 4-Year College levels that would allow a simulated form of "recruiting" from the High School level.

I've found that most everything else can be handled within the current setup, although I admit it would be nice if the optimal settings for each level were already set by default.

The bottom line is, the feeder system needs some minor (albeit important) adjustments, but it shouldn't require a complete overhaul. Is it something that could even be corrected in a patch?

Only Markus knows for sure.

Afino · 06-09-2009, 07:07 PM

I love feeders and currently use them, but until someone finds the correct Aging/Dev modifiers for universes with feeders, I'm always going to be hesitant.

Muzamba · 06-09-2009, 07:13 PM

Oh, and a couple more things that would help...

1. The ability to set a smaller roster size. The minimum is currently at 15, but this should be as low as 1 (with the remaining roster filled with ghost players)

2. The ability to preset the total number of players you want to be made available for the draft. This way, you don't have too many players to choose from. And conversely, even if you have a small feeder system, the draft can be populated with ghost players or new players that are created specifically for the draft.

neojonas · 06-09-2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzamba

2. The ability to preset the total number of players you want to be made available for the draft. This way, you don't have too many players to choose from. And conversely, even if you have a small feeder system, the draft can be populated with ghost players or new players that are created specifically for the draft.

There is already an option to generate players if your feeders can't produce enough.

johndoe8865 · 06-09-2009, 07:48 PM

So I've been doing some testing with feeders and here is what I've found.

In the first year - you get no stats from the player's school.

Also in an MLB 2009 game, I first tried with 90 teams and only had 59 players available for the draft without using some fictional fill in players.

Tried another MLB 2009 with 120 teams and only got 129 players for a 20 rd draft.

So my question is exactly how many feeders do you need, so that you don't have to fill in the draft with fictional non-feeders in a 32 team league?

I've read about a formula that went, 32*(rounds in amateur draft)/6 = How many feeder teams you need. In my experience so far, that has not yielded nearly enough players to even finish a draft of 20 rds. I've even set it to create enough players for 80 rounds. It makes no difference.

Muzamba · 06-09-2009, 07:54 PM

I'm curious to see how many players 1,712 feeder teams generate, since that's the number I have in my complete college universe. (I wouldn't know because I don't have the feeder version set up yet.)

Muzamba · 06-09-2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neojonas

There is already an option to generate players if your feeders can't produce enough.

...which is good, but if you could actually enter the number you want, you can insure that you don't have too few OR too many.

The more control we have over the game, the better!

TribeFanInNC · 06-09-2009, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johndoe8865

So I've been doing some testing with feeders and here is what I've found.

In the first year - you get no stats from the player's school.

Also in an MLB 2009 game, I first tried with 90 teams and only had 59 players available for the draft without using some fictional fill in players.

Tried another MLB 2009 with 120 teams and only got 129 players for a 20 rd draft.

So my question is exactly how many feeders do you need, so that you don't have to fill in the draft with fictional non-feeders in a 32 team league?

I've read about a formula that went, 32*(rounds in amateur draft)/6 = How many feeder teams you need. In my experience so far, that has not yielded nearly enough players to even finish a draft of 20 rds. I've even set it to create enough players for 80 rounds. It makes no difference.

I think you have to get a couple years into it for the full effect. The first year, you are at the random whim of what ages the CPU picked. I've found in my couple tests that it is short the first year.

neojonas · 06-09-2009, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johndoe8865

So I've been doing some testing with feeders and here is what I've found.

In the first year - you get no stats from the player's school.

Also in an MLB 2009 game, I first tried with 90 teams and only had 59 players available for the draft without using some fictional fill in players.

Tried another MLB 2009 with 120 teams and only got 129 players for a 20 rd draft.

So my question is exactly how many feeders do you need, so that you don't have to fill in the draft with fictional non-feeders in a 32 team league?

I've read about a formula that went, 32*(rounds in amateur draft)/6 = How many feeder teams you need. In my experience so far, that has not yielded nearly enough players to even finish a draft of 20 rds. I've even set it to create enough players for 80 rounds. It makes no difference.

The first draft pool created from feeders is a little out of wack. It'll have mostly generated players. I always sim out 20 years for my leagues and begin playing to reduce the big bang effects and such. But I play strictly fictional with MLB w/ full minors setup. But if you want start playing with feeders right away make sure you have Feeder + Generated selected in Game Setup for how players should be created. Every draft pool you should see improvements.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzamba

I'm curious to see how many players 1,712 feeder teams generate, since that's the number I have in my complete college universe. (I wouldn't know because I don't have the feeder version set up yet.)

Do these teams each have 25 players? If so from my formulas you'll have about 12,000 players in each draft. It'll probably range from 11,000 - 13,000 on average. That's a lot of guys!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzamba

...which is good, but if you could actually enter the number you want, you can insure that you don't have too few OR too many.

The more control we have over the game, the better!

It takes some fooling around but I'm starting to figure out how to set up feeders to always get pretty much the same number of draftees a year. OOTP could certainly use some improvements in this arena.

View Poll Results: Do you use feeders?
Yes, I've been using feeders for awhile.	40	31.75%
Yes, I'm going to start using feeders in OOTPX.	18	14.29%
I'm on the fence about feeders.	33	26.19%
No, I'd never use feeders.	35	27.78%
Voters: 126. You may not vote on this poll

06-09-2009, 01:25 PM	#1
neojonas All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,078	Do you use feeders? I've never really used feeder leagues in previous versions of OOTP because I read too many posts that scared me away from them. I really like the idea of watching a player develop before the June draft occurs to allow a more realistic draft experience by giving me more then made up ratings to draft off of. So for awhile now I've been testing feeders to figure out the best configuration and I'm thinking about going with them for my main OOTPX league. I've been pretty impressed with them. I'm curious how many others use feeder leagues or are thinking about going with them in OOTPX.

06-09-2009, 06:10 PM	#8
Cryomaniac Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hucknall, Notts, UK Posts: 4,902	I like the idea, but they don't really work much like real life. For college leagues the option should be minimum age and years of eligibilty, not maximum age. High school graduates that aren't drafted should sometimes go to college and sometimes just retire. __________________

06-09-2009, 07:07 PM	#13
Afino Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 3,828	I love feeders and currently use them, but until someone finds the correct Aging/Dev modifiers for universes with feeders, I'm always going to be hesitant. __________________ GUBA: Moscow Enforcers

06-09-2009, 01:43 PM	#2
Raidergoo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,005	Lately, I have been using them a lot.

06-09-2009, 01:50 PM	#3
jtnlange Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Racine,WI Posts: 261	In my fictional league, I use a modified NCAA 256 team college feeder league. In the test sims I did before hand I did not find any issues that would lead me not to use a feeder. I really enjoy watching a player as he moves through college and then decide if he is worth the pick to get him. Sometimes it works out and sometimes not. Trevor L.

06-09-2009, 03:41 PM	#5
TribeFanInNC Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,019	I haven't used feeders before until I started playing around with them during beta this year. I'm going to try to implement them in my first fictional league and I joined an online league that uses them as I like the concept.

06-09-2009, 04:56 PM	#6
gord Major Leagues Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 365	I like the concept as well but have been scared off b/c of possible issues with talent flooding or slowing the game down. Since my amateur scouting has been hit-and-miss (mostly miss) I'm thinking about giving it a try.

06-09-2009, 06:16 PM	#10
Storm Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 243	I can't seem to get feeder's to work the way I want. So no, I don't use them in historical replays, but in fictional leagues, I'm all for them.

06-09-2009, 06:39 PM	#11
jayharvill Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 90	What ratio of ML teams to feeder teams are you guys using? I know there have been numerous posts made in the past about this question, but I'm curious about ratios being used in OOTPX

06-09-2009, 07:00 PM	#12
Muzamba Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,325	IMO, this is an aspect of the game that deserves immediate attention, not because it's fatally flawed, but because it could so easily be improved. There should be 3 levels of feeders: High School, 2-Year College and 4-Year College. High School should feed 2-Year College, 4-Year College and the major league draft, while 2-Year College should feed 4-Year College and the draft, and 4-Year College should feed only the draft. Also, team financials should be available. One should at least be able to set market size, fan interest/loyalty, cash, budget, merchandising and media contracts to help distinguish the elite programs from the less successful programs. And even though monetary contracts shouldn't be given to players in feeder leagues, there should be a free agency system for the 2-Year College and 4-Year College levels that would allow a simulated form of "recruiting" from the High School level. I've found that most everything else can be handled within the current setup, although I admit it would be nice if the optimal settings for each level were already set by default. The bottom line is, the feeder system needs some minor (albeit important) adjustments, but it shouldn't require a complete overhaul. Is it something that could even be corrected in a patch? Only Markus knows for sure.

06-09-2009, 07:13 PM	#14
Muzamba Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,325	Oh, and a couple more things that would help... 1. The ability to set a smaller roster size. The minimum is currently at 15, but this should be as low as 1 (with the remaining roster filled with ghost players) 2. The ability to preset the total number of players you want to be made available for the draft. This way, you don't have too many players to choose from. And conversely, even if you have a small feeder system, the draft can be populated with ghost players or new players that are created specifically for the draft.

06-09-2009, 07:48 PM	#16
johndoe8865 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: North Carolina Posts: 114	So I've been doing some testing with feeders and here is what I've found. In the first year - you get no stats from the player's school. Also in an MLB 2009 game, I first tried with 90 teams and only had 59 players available for the draft without using some fictional fill in players. Tried another MLB 2009 with 120 teams and only got 129 players for a 20 rd draft. So my question is exactly how many feeders do you need, so that you don't have to fill in the draft with fictional non-feeders in a 32 team league? I've read about a formula that went, 32*(rounds in amateur draft)/6 = How many feeder teams you need. In my experience so far, that has not yielded nearly enough players to even finish a draft of 20 rds. I've even set it to create enough players for 80 rounds. It makes no difference.

06-09-2009, 07:54 PM	#17
Muzamba Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,325	I'm curious to see how many players 1,712 feeder teams generate, since that's the number I have in my complete college universe. (I wouldn't know because I don't have the feeder version set up yet.)