Injuries are just fine

[kckid4u]

Just simed 3 more days total since my last post, and in those 3 days, my team, and I mean just my team has lost 4 more guys from my major league team for at least 5 weeks. That's 9 of my major leaguers on the DL after 2 weeks and 14 total. Sorry, but that's too many.

This is the normal setting. I'd hate to see it on the high setting.

[ravinhood]

I've always used low settings in all my OOTPBB years and I've always been satisfied with the overall injury reports. I want to play a baseball game not Baseball Doctor Manager.

[Trooper]

Just got done with my 3rd game into the season and 4 starters are now out with injuries. Three in my last game which resulted in an error fest because I had to put players in positions that they are not rated for. I won 7-6 - with all 6 opponent runs unearned!!!

My injury setting is default.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by ravinhood

I've always used low settings in all my OOTPBB years and I've always been satisfied with the overall injury reports. I want to play a baseball game not Baseball Doctor Manager.

LOL, and ditto.

[Malleus Dei]

I'm going to say this for like the hundredth time: if you think injuries are too numerous or put players out for too long, dial injury frequency down a notch or two and edit injury.txt until you get what you like. One man's realism is another man's lack of enjoyment. Customize the game until it suits you.

[bosunmate]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

I'm going to say this for like the hundredth time: if you think injuries are too numerous or put players out for too long, dial injury frequency down a notch or two and edit injury.txt until you get what you like. One man's realism is another man's lack of enjoyment. Customize the game until it suits you.

An who said the old volcano was dormant...

[Trooper]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

I'm going to say this for like the hundredth time: if you think injuries are too numerous or put players out for too long, dial injury frequency down a notch or two and edit injury.txt until you get what you like. One man's realism is another man's lack of enjoyment. Customize the game until it suits you.

So turn injury setting on low and shut up? No wonder you all are playing with edited injuries if that's how things are done on these boards.

I read how Markus stated he tested injuries and they were found to be realistic on default. I was just sharing my experience because I've never seen 3 players get injured in a game, this is baseball not football right? Half of my lineup is gone after 3 games (after the players had the whole off season to rest and heal prior dings and things.)

I realize I can adjust injuries, but again I just thought my input would be appreciated for the greater good.

[OldFatGuy]

Originally Posted by Trooper

So turn injury setting on low and shut up? No wonder you all are playing with edited injuries if that's how things are done on these boards.

I read how Markus stated he tested injuries and they were found to be realistic on default. I was just sharing my experience because I've never seen 3 players get injured in a game, this is baseball not football right? Half of my lineup is gone after 3 games (after the players had the whole off season to rest and heal prior dings and things.)

I realize I can adjust injuries, but again I just thought my input would be appreciated for the greater good.

Your input is appreciated, and please, I hope you'll continue with more input.

The goal is to find a "default" level of injuries that mirrors real life. Unfortunately, real life is brutal. There are several links in this thread that shows how brutal real life is. Right now, today, in RL 2009, there are nearly 50 players on the 60 day DL. That's almost 2 per team, and that's just the 60 day DL, and the season's only 1/3 done.

Apparently testing was done to try to get injuries closer to this RL brutality, and the result was/is injuries occur more often. So some have suggested that if you're not happy with this RL brutality, then you can turn it down. That seems reasonable.

But it also seems reasonable to question how the testing was done and the conclusions were drawn. I'm guessing the testing was done by simming several seasons to get a large enough sample size to draw proper conclusions. However, it seems most/all of the complaints are from folfs who play out their games, and involve their own team.

Thus, I think it's very reasonable to question whether there is some flaw/bug that makes results obtained in games played out different from the way it was tested (by simming), AND/OR I think it's reasonable to wonder/question whether there is a flaw/bug that makes human controlled teams obtain different results since most long term sims (as I'm guessing was done in testing) are done with no human owned/controlled teams.

I think these are legitimate questions to raise, and I hope you'll continue to raise them. And if a concensus emerges that perhaps we should do more testing along these lines, I hope you may be willing to help.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and another possibility exists as well, if we're talking about the MLB quickstart that came with the game. It's possible all/most of the testing was done on generic, "average" teams. However, someone rated (using the editor) all the players for the rosters that came with the game. One of the ratings that players have is an injury proneness rating.

So might it be possible that those doing the ratings, input injury proneness numbers too high for players proned to getting injured in RL that were based on the "old" injury frequencies (OOTP 9)? And if so, wouldn't these higher injury proneness ratings coupled with a new higher injury frequency in OOTP 10 create like a "double whammy" effect, resulting in too many?

All of these seem reasonable avenues to pursue, IMO.

[actionjackson]

You can always count on OFG.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by Trooper

So turn injury setting on low and shut up?

Do what you like. But complaining repeatedly about an issue that was clearly thoroughly researched and is the result of a consensus is just going to get you the same answers over and over.

Do you want a game that you enjoy playing and that feels right to you, or would you rather go on about this? Your call. Me, I turned injuries on low and edited the injury.txt file.

[Trooper]

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Do what you like. But complaining repeatedly about an issue that was clearly thoroughly researched and is the result of a consensus is just going to get you the same answers over and over.

Do you want a game that you enjoy playing and that feels right to you, or would you rather go on about this? Your call. Me, I turned injuries on low and edited the injury.txt file.

That's what I'm grappling with right now. Do I play on default hoping things will get better, and if it doesn't then I can share my experience to help future generations of the software? Or should I just put it on low and be done with it?

I'm all for realism even if it's "brutal" but I think OFG has a point, it may be an issue with manually playing games. That's what I have been doing and my players are dropping like flies. I saw this thread and joined in, I wasn't trying to bring up a stale complaint. I haven't read the forums everyday so I don't know what's current and what isn't

[Trooper]

Game 4 of my season is done (manually played.) Torii Hunter got injured and will be out 5 weeks. That's 5 of my starters out now. For my opponent (Oakland), Nomar Garciaparra suffered a career ending injury.

[Theonlystd]

To counter all the stories of massive injuries..


I've been playing on normal and dont think i've had more than 4 of my starters on the DL at a time.. With a few seasons of playing... My only gripe is as has been said to many long term one to batters one should have to stockpile pitchers.. But thats going to be fixed..

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Trooper

Game 4 of my season is done (manually played.) Torii Hunter got injured and will be out 5 weeks. That's 5 of my starters out now. For my opponent (Oakland), Nomar Garciaparra suffered a career ending injury.

Trooper: Try starting out with injuries turned off (I know you've already started this sim), until you get a bit of a handle on the game. Then, dial them up to very low, then low etc until you find the setting that works for you. I went into my injuries database and edited out the 8 career ending injuries that exist (because I play with "retire according to history" on) and will start with injuries off because I'm starting in 1901 when some teams have 18 players (that's pitchers and position players). I won't turn them on until I see at least 40 players on every team and I'll be starting off with them set at very low, to see how things go before bumping them up or maybe I'll stay there. I've got position player fatigue set to "high", so who knows: maybe those three settings will give me what I want. There's more than one way to get enough injuries and setbacks into your game without being forced to play doctor instead of baseball. But remember as OFG says: baseball, especially in the modern era is a brutal game for injuries. If you'd like I can upload that CEI-free database to you and you stick it in your OOTP 10 > database folder and it will overwrite those nasty CEIs for you (of course should you choose this option you should make a copy of your injuries.txt file and call it original injuries or default injuries to remind you that that's what it is) or keep tweaking until you find what works for you.

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by Trooper

I've never seen 3 players get injured in a game, this is baseball not football right?

Are you talking real life? Because that happend to the Mets just nine days ago.

On May 30 of this year Carlos Beltran went down with 'stomach flu' (no such thing — probably a norovirus infection) prior to the game. He was incapacitated through Tuesday, missing four games, and was willing to play Wednesday at reduced capacity, but the game was rained out. He returned Thursday at 100%.

John Maine, the starting pitcher, had to be pulled after warming up for the seventh inning (same cause). He pitched effectively that day, but if he was a reliever he would've missed the next three games. When he did return this past Saturday, he was affected as if suffering a 20% day-to-day injury and was totally ineffective.

Jose Pagan, who replaced Beltran in the field, tore…something…in his leg chasing a fly ball in the fourth inning, was pulled from the game and immediately placed on the DL, where I think he's expected to spend the next six weeks. This was his second trip to the DL this season.

This means that for a few days the starting catcher, starting first baseman, starting shortstop, backup infielder (playing shortstop), backup to the backup shortstop, and the entire preseason projected starting outfield were unavailable, along with last season's closer and this season's setup man and number two starter. (Yes, I know Perez was technically number three, but that was only so Pelphry could avoid pitching against the Marlins early in the season.) On top of that, Dave Sheffield, the best remaining outfielder, has been day-to-day for a couple of weeks with a thigh muscle strain that won't heal.

Three in one game is unusual, but not unheard of. I wasn't watching that night, but sometime in mid-May a team the Mets were playing against had to remove five guys for injury in one game. No idea how many of them made it to the DL.

[Trooper]

Originally Posted by Curtis

Are you talking real life? Because that happend to the Mets just nine days ago.

On May 30 of this year Carlos Beltran went down with 'stomach flu' (no such thing — probably a norovirus infection) prior to the game. He was incapacitated through Tuesday, missing four games, and was willing to play Wednesday at reduced capacity, but the game was rained out. He returned Thursday at 100%.

John Maine, the starting pitcher, had to be pulled after warming up for the seventh inning (same cause). He pitched effectively that day, but if he was a reliever he would've missed the next three games. When he did return this past Saturday, he was affected as if suffering a 20% day-to-day injury and was totally ineffective.

Jose Pagan, who replaced Beltran in the field, tore…something…in his leg chasing a fly ball in the fourth inning, was pulled from the game and immediately placed on the DL, where I think he's expected to spend the next six weeks. This was his second trip to the DL this season.

This means that for a few days the starting catcher, starting first baseman, starting shortstop, backup infielder (playing shortstop), backup to the backup shortstop, and the entire preseason projected starting outfield were unavailable, along with last season's closer and this season's setup man and number two starter. (Yes, I know Perez was technically number three, but that was only so Pelphry could avoid pitching against the Marlins early in the season.) On top of that, Dave Sheffield, the best remaining outfielder, has been day-to-day for a couple of weeks with a thigh muscle strain that won't heal.

Three in one game is unusual, but not unheard of. I wasn't watching that night, but sometime in mid-May a team the Mets were playing against had to remove five guys for injury in one game. No idea how many of them made it to the DL.

Certainly it has happened, how many thousands of games are played each year? I'm just saying that I haven't seen 3 players from the same team get knocked out of a single game, and I have watched alot of games. What are the probabilities you know? And I'm 4 games into this. I wouldn't say anything if I had played hundreds of games.

[andymac]

I would say that if you have never seen 3 guys knocked out of 1 game due to injury, you haven't been paying very close attention.

[EnderCN]

But complaining repeatedly about an issue that was clearly thoroughly researched and is the result of a consensus is just going to get you the same answers over and over.

This is called providing feedback, not complaining. Just because something was researched doesn't mean there can't be problems with it. I would think the developers want this type of feedback.

I simmed a season and the injuries seemed fine in that one but I wasn't watching all that closely since I was just trying to see what the playtime results ended up like.

The hitters AB looked good at the end but there were way too many pitchers with 200+ innings. Going to try another with pitch in strict order forced to on to see if that fixes it some.

[Tullius]

This is called providing feedback, not complaining. Just because something was researched doesn't mean there can't be problems with it. I would think the developers want this type of feedback.

Feedback can help but it requires here that you have at least a little clue about statistics. Even when the odds are 1:1000 it does not mean that the event can not occur in the first event. And only few people realize that a human has to many limits to imagine all possible cases so that a conclusion like " i have never seen this ... and so it must be wrong " is not a sign of intelligence.

[toxicavenger74]

Originally Posted by Tullius

Feedback can help but it requires here that you have at least a little clue about statistics. Even when the odds are 1:1000 it does not mean that the event can not occur in the first event. And only few people realize that a human has to many limits to imagine all possible cases so that a conclusion like " i have never seen this ... and so it must be wrong " is not a sign of intelligence.

Yeah, that's probably too harsh to judge a message board individuals intelligence based off of a discussion about baseball injuries with regards to a AI system.