BZ 3148: Problem with earned runs

[Tavarin]

It seems whenever a hitter gets an RBI basehit, but is caught out on the bases to end the inning, the runs are counted as unearned runs for the pitcher, despite the runs scoring and no errors being made in the inning.

[NateDawg]

I had the following inning in my last game (sorry for the funny format):

Bottom of the 2nd - Washington Nationals batting - Pitching for Atlanta Braves : RHP D. Lowe

Batting: LHB A. Dunn0-0: Swinging Strike
0-1: Called Strike
0-2: Foul Ball, location: 2F
0-2: Strikes out swinging

Batting: RHB J. Flores0-0: Ball
1-0: Foul Ball, location: 2F
1-1: SINGLE (Groundball, 5D)

Batting: LHB N. Johnson0-0: Ball
1-0: Called Strike
1-1: Ball
2-1: Swinging Strike
2-2: SINGLE (Popup, 8LS)
J. Flores to second

Batting: RHB A. Kearns0-0: Ball
1-0: Foul Ball, location: 2F
1-1: SINGLE (Groundball, 25) (infield hit)
J. Flores to third
N. Johnson to second

Batting: LHB W. HarrisReached via error on receiving a throw, E6
J. Flores scores
N. Johnson to third
A. Kearns to second

Batting: RHB D. Cabrera0-0: Called Strike
0-1: Swinging Strike
0-2: Ball
1-2: Strikes out swinging

Batting: RHB L. Milledge0-0: SINGLE (Flyball, 8RS)
N. Johnson scores
A. Kearns to third
W. Harris to second
Runner from 3rd tries for Home, throw and OUT!

Bottom of the 2nd over - 2 run(s), 4 hit(s), 1 error(s), 2 left on base; Atlanta 0 - Washington 1

I believe that the first run that scored should have been EARNED as there was only 1 out and the play at 2nd base (the throwing error) would have been the 2nd out of the inning. The player on 3rd would have scored even if the play was made at 2nd base. The last run should have been UNEARNED because it came after 3 outs should have been recorded in an errorless inning.

Here's my pitcher's line score:
AtlantaIPHRERBBKHRPIPSERA D. Lowe W (1-2)7.082004092593.41
Notice that he was not charged any earned runs.

Nathan

[thomamon]

Originally Posted by NateDawg

I had the following inning in my last game (sorry for the funny format):

Bottom of the 2nd - Washington Nationals batting - Pitching for Atlanta Braves : RHP D. Lowe Batting: LHB A. Dunn0-0: Swinging Strike
0-1: Called Strike
0-2: Foul Ball, location: 2F
0-2: Strikes out swinging Batting: RHB J. Flores0-0: Ball
1-0: Foul Ball, location: 2F
1-1: SINGLE (Groundball, 5D) Batting: LHB N. Johnson0-0: Ball
1-0: Called Strike
1-1: Ball
2-1: Swinging Strike
2-2: SINGLE (Popup, 8LS)
J. Flores to second Batting: RHB A. Kearns0-0: Ball
1-0: Foul Ball, location: 2F
1-1: SINGLE (Groundball, 25) (infield hit)
J. Flores to third
N. Johnson to second Batting: LHB W. HarrisReached via error on receiving a throw, E6
J. Flores scores
N. Johnson to third
A. Kearns to second Batting: RHB D. Cabrera0-0: Called Strike
0-1: Swinging Strike
0-2: Ball
1-2: Strikes out swinging Batting: RHB L. Milledge0-0: SINGLE (Flyball, 8RS)
N. Johnson scores
A. Kearns to third
W. Harris to second
Runner from 3rd tries for Home, throw and OUT! Bottom of the 2nd over - 2 run(s), 4 hit(s), 1 error(s), 2 left on base; Atlanta 0 - Washington 1I believe that the first run that scored should have been EARNED as there was only 1 out and the play at 2nd base (the throwing error) would have been the 2nd out of the inning. The player on 3rd would have scored even if the play was made at 2nd base. The last run should have been UNEARNED because it came after 3 outs should have been recorded in an errorless inning.

Here's my pitcher's line score:
AtlantaIPHRERBBKHRPIPSERA D. Lowe W (1-2)7.082004092593.41
Notice that he was not charged any earned runs.

Nathan

I'm not sure there should be an earned run. One run scored on the error, and the others scored after their was two outs and an error.

[NateDawg]

Originally Posted by thomamon

I'm not sure there should be an earned run. One run scored on the error, and the others scored after their was two outs and an error.

However, the run didn't score as a result of an error. Instead it scored on the same play as the error (the error occurred at 2nd base) and would have scored regardless of the error or not.

[Tony M]

If Harris had been called out on the play he reached on error would the run have been allowed? I know there's some 'fourth out' rule that was used by the Dodgers this season but I don't think that applies here, so neither run would be classed as earned.

[NateDawg]

Originally Posted by Tony M

If Harris had been called out on the play he reached on error would the run have been allowed? I know there's some 'fourth out' rule that was used by the Dodgers this season but I don't think that applies here, so neither run would be classed as earned.

My understanding of Earned Runs is that if you go back and play the inning without the error, would the run have still scored. If so, it is earned.

The run would have scored regardless of whether the player was called out at 2nd base or not.

[tysok]

The OP is right.
The format is kind of screwing us up.

What happens here is Flores is on third, Johnson is on second, and Kearns is on first.
Harris hits a groundball somewhere and is safe because the SS made an error when someone tried to get an out at second, attempted DP maybe. Flores is going to score on that no matter what - since we can't assume it would have been a good DP.

There should be 2 outs, at that point, with Johnson on third and Harris on first.
Cabrera strikes out, should be the end of an inning.
Milledge shouldn't be up with the bases full, so his RBI single would be unearned.

Should be 1 earned run, 1 unearned run.

[Tony M]

What is odd looking is that where it says Batting: player it is followed with a 0-0 and a description of the pitch, but for Harris it isn't - it says Batting: Harris reached via an error on throw received.

Did the pitcher attempt a pickoff throw to the shortstop because the ball hasn't gone towards home plate.

Also, at the bottom of the section it gives the score as 0-1 despite two runs being scored.

[tysok]

Originally Posted by Tony M

What is odd looking is that where it says Batting: player it is followed with a 0-0 and a description of the pitch, but for Harris it isn't - it says Batting: Harris reached via an error on throw received.

Did the pitcher attempt a pickoff throw to the shortstop because the ball hasn't gone towards home plate.

Also, at the bottom of the section it gives the score as 0-1 despite two runs being scored.

I've seen that game score report issue several times the last couple days.
It would seem that any time an inning ends on a play that included a run scoring that it doesn't update the score as of the end of that play, it grabs the score from before that play.

I saw one where 2 runs weren't reported because the batter was thrown out trying to stretch it to a triple (I think that was the scenario) and it reported the score minus those 2 runs. Another kind of like this one.
Might see if you can find that BZ and update it with that info... it needs to update the score and then report, instead of grabbing the score from before that play. (I would, but BZ won't let me log in).

[Tony M]

I've added this to BZ 3148 and opened BZ 3219 for the summary issue.