BZ 1505: Rule 5 Draft Problem Stiil Exists

rwd59 · 06-04-2009, 12:10 AM

You still cannot use the Rule 5 Draft for historical leagues in which you automatically assign rookies to their original team. The game still makes all imported rookies immediately Rule 5 eligible. This was supposed to be fixed in one of the OOTP 9 patches but never really got fixed.

battists · 06-04-2009, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd59

You still cannot use the Rule 5 Draft for historical leagues in which you automatically assign rookies to their original team. The game still makes all imported rookies immediately Rule 5 eligible. This was supposed to be fixed in one of the OOTP 9 patches but never really got fixed.

Sorry for the thick-headedness, but it's late.

So, the problem here is that rookies come into the league, go to their appropriate teams, and then promptly go into the Rule 5 draft in Dec and get drafted away to other teams?

Is that a decent restatement of the problem?

rwd59 · 06-04-2009, 01:56 PM

If you are having historical rookies assigned to their original team, when your rookies are imported in February they are placed in the teams DFA section. You then must manually move them to the minor league of choice. Immediately upon moving them a # is placed by their name making them Rule 5 Eligible. They are ok their first season because the Rule 5 Draft is in December. But after their first season they will be eligible unless you add them to the 40 man roster. This is the way I always play my seasons and I have had to turn Rule 5 off since OOTP 6.5 because it just does not work correctly when you assign rookies to their original team. The game used to put all rookies in the lowest level of the minor leagues and this did not happen then.

Solonor · 06-04-2009, 02:02 PM

This was BZ1505, Steve. Here are Markus' comments when he marked this as fixed back in 9.1.2:

It depends heavily on the players age when he gets imported... the game needs
to assume professional time for some (minors), especially 22+ year old ones.
And if this is more than 3 years, the players are rule 5 draft eligible. This
is by design.

Le Grande Orange · 06-04-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd59

They are ok their first season because the Rule 5 Draft is in December. But after their first season they will be eligible unless you add them to the 40 man roster.

It sounds like the game is inadvertantly recreating the essence of the First Year Player Draft rule, which existed in various forms from 1958-1967.

rwd59 · 06-04-2009, 04:03 PM

You closed the last thread before I got a chance to reply. I have 20 and 21 year olds that are Rule 5 eligible so any fix or design decision that said 22+ year olds should be eligible that also makes 20 year olds eligible is flawed. Not like its a game breaker but it ends any usefullness of this feature for me. Guess it is going to stay OFF.

Solonor · 06-04-2009, 04:09 PM

Hmm...that's weird. I didn't close it. I just made the comment that Markus thinks it's working as it should.

Solonor · 06-04-2009, 04:12 PM

I'll check this out and see if I can reopen the issue for Markus to look at.

Le Grande Orange · 06-05-2009, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd59

You closed the last thread before I got a chance to reply. I have 20 and 21 year olds that are Rule 5 eligible so any fix or design decision that said 22+ year olds should be eligible that also makes 20 year olds eligible is flawed.

To be picky, that's only the case if you're considering modern day rules.

In earlier years, Rule 5 eligibility was determined by years of minor league service, not age. And a season of service was defined as being a specified number of days on the roster.

rwd59 · 06-05-2009, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

To be picky, that's only the case if you're considering modern day rules.

In earlier years, Rule 5 eligibility was determined by years of minor league service, not age. And a season of service was defined as being a specified number of days on the roster.

I thought it was still that way today. In this case my players have Zero service time but are eligible. Markus made a design decision to arbitrarily choose to make players Rule 5 eligible at a certain age to compensate for a lack of minor league play for rookies imported and assigned to their original teams. I believe that 20 and 21 year olds are to young to be made immediately eligible. I don't quible as much with 23+ year olds being made eligible. Another question I have is this, does he do the same for these players if they are drafted in an amateur draft rather than being assigned to their original team?

rwd59 · 06-05-2009, 11:19 AM

This also creates a problem in that I have to put these players on the 40 man roster to keep them from being Rule 5 elgible even though they may be current ability-wise placed in the lowest level on the minors. Since the game now calls all 40 man roster players up for spring training, I now start their clock ticking before they would be if not forced to do so. I don't really have a problem with the new 40 man spring rule, guess as I said earlier the Rule 5 draft will have to stay off for good.

Nutlaw · 06-06-2009, 09:38 AM

Merging back together.

Nutlaw · 06-06-2009, 09:41 AM

Rwd59, are you certain that all historical draftees are importing as Rule 5 eligible or are some not immediately eligible? I'm not clear on that.

rwd59 · 06-06-2009, 01:41 PM

Every single one of mine were no matter what age they were. Not as sure about AI teams. I have it turned off now.

Nutlaw · 06-06-2009, 07:00 PM

In this setting, are historical players generated during the year in which they were drafted or in the year in which they reached the majors? (I don't play this way normally, so please excuse my ignorance.)

rwd59 · 06-06-2009, 08:21 PM

When they reached the majors.

Nutlaw · 06-07-2009, 10:20 AM

Well, then I can understand why he chose to do it that way, in part.

rwd59 · 06-07-2009, 01:57 PM

My question is does he make the same thing happen in historic leagues that use the draft rather than assigning players to their original team? This is another reason why I always used to use Ankit's DB where players were a little bit more ML ready when they imported. It helped solve the problems of players, say Nolan Ryan for example, who originally came up for a very poor, very smal, cup of coffee in 1966 so he imported with very crappy ratings. He didn't play at all in 1967 and then came up as a wild but useable pitcher full-time in 1968. He always ended up useless in the game unless I used Ankit's DB. I wouldn't have so much of a problem with what Markus is doing if it took the players ratings into consideration rather than just making a blanket decision based on age. In other word if the players ratings were at or near MLB ready then make him elgible, but if they were not then don't make him elgible.

rwd59 · 06-11-2009, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd59

My question is does he make the same thing happen in historic leagues that use the draft rather than assigning players to their original team?

According to NC Beachbum in another thread, this does not happen in leagues with the draft so why does it happen in leagues without a draft?

Nutlaw · 06-11-2009, 06:05 PM

I reopened BZ 1505 for Markus' consideration.

06-04-2009, 12:10 AM	#1
rwd59 All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: LA (Lower Alabama) Posts: 980	BZ 1505: Rule 5 Draft Problem Stiil Exists You still cannot use the Rule 5 Draft for historical leagues in which you automatically assign rookies to their original team. The game still makes all imported rookies immediately Rule 5 eligible. This was supposed to be fixed in one of the OOTP 9 patches but never really got fixed.

06-04-2009, 02:02 PM	#4
Solonor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Maine Posts: 4,467	This was BZ1505, Steve. Here are Markus' comments when he marked this as fixed back in 9.1.2: It depends heavily on the players age when he gets imported... the game needs to assume professional time for some (minors), especially 22+ year old ones. And if this is more than 3 years, the players are rule 5 draft eligible. This is by design. __________________ Solonor's Groovy Computer Baseball League - Making baseball a hobbit since 2003! "Beings will come, Frodo. The one constant through all the years has been baseball. Middle Earth has rolled by like an army of Mumakil. It has been erased like a slate, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Frodo. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... beings will come Frodo. Beings will most definitely come." - Gladden Field of Dreams

06-04-2009, 04:03 PM	#6
rwd59 All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: LA (Lower Alabama) Posts: 980	Rule 5 still Solonor You closed the last thread before I got a chance to reply. I have 20 and 21 year olds that are Rule 5 eligible so any fix or design decision that said 22+ year olds should be eligible that also makes 20 year olds eligible is flawed. Not like its a game breaker but it ends any usefullness of this feature for me. Guess it is going to stay OFF.

06-04-2009, 04:09 PM	#7
Solonor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Maine Posts: 4,467	Hmm...that's weird. I didn't close it. I just made the comment that Markus thinks it's working as it should. __________________ Solonor's Groovy Computer Baseball League - Making baseball a hobbit since 2003! "Beings will come, Frodo. The one constant through all the years has been baseball. Middle Earth has rolled by like an army of Mumakil. It has been erased like a slate, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Frodo. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... beings will come Frodo. Beings will most definitely come." - Gladden Field of Dreams

06-04-2009, 04:12 PM	#8
Solonor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Maine Posts: 4,467	I'll check this out and see if I can reopen the issue for Markus to look at. __________________ Solonor's Groovy Computer Baseball League - Making baseball a hobbit since 2003! "Beings will come, Frodo. The one constant through all the years has been baseball. Middle Earth has rolled by like an army of Mumakil. It has been erased like a slate, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Frodo. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... beings will come Frodo. Beings will most definitely come." - Gladden Field of Dreams

06-04-2009, 01:56 PM	#3
rwd59 All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: LA (Lower Alabama) Posts: 980	If you are having historical rookies assigned to their original team, when your rookies are imported in February they are placed in the teams DFA section. You then must manually move them to the minor league of choice. Immediately upon moving them a # is placed by their name making them Rule 5 Eligible. They are ok their first season because the Rule 5 Draft is in December. But after their first season they will be eligible unless you add them to the 40 man roster. This is the way I always play my seasons and I have had to turn Rule 5 off since OOTP 6.5 because it just does not work correctly when you assign rookies to their original team. The game used to put all rookies in the lowest level of the minor leagues and this did not happen then.

06-05-2009, 11:19 AM	#11
rwd59 All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: LA (Lower Alabama) Posts: 980	This also creates a problem in that I have to put these players on the 40 man roster to keep them from being Rule 5 elgible even though they may be current ability-wise placed in the lowest level on the minors. Since the game now calls all 40 man roster players up for spring training, I now start their clock ticking before they would be if not forced to do so. I don't really have a problem with the new 40 man spring rule, guess as I said earlier the Rule 5 draft will have to stay off for good.

06-06-2009, 09:38 AM	#12
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	Merging back together.

06-06-2009, 09:41 AM	#13
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	Rwd59, are you certain that all historical draftees are importing as Rule 5 eligible or are some not immediately eligible? I'm not clear on that.

06-06-2009, 01:41 PM	#14
rwd59 All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: LA (Lower Alabama) Posts: 980	Every single one of mine were no matter what age they were. Not as sure about AI teams. I have it turned off now.

06-06-2009, 07:00 PM	#15
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	In this setting, are historical players generated during the year in which they were drafted or in the year in which they reached the majors? (I don't play this way normally, so please excuse my ignorance.)

06-06-2009, 08:21 PM	#16
rwd59 All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: LA (Lower Alabama) Posts: 980	When they reached the majors.

06-07-2009, 10:20 AM	#17
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	Well, then I can understand why he chose to do it that way, in part.

06-07-2009, 01:57 PM	#18
rwd59 All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: LA (Lower Alabama) Posts: 980	My question is does he make the same thing happen in historic leagues that use the draft rather than assigning players to their original team? This is another reason why I always used to use Ankit's DB where players were a little bit more ML ready when they imported. It helped solve the problems of players, say Nolan Ryan for example, who originally came up for a very poor, very smal, cup of coffee in 1966 so he imported with very crappy ratings. He didn't play at all in 1967 and then came up as a wild but useable pitcher full-time in 1968. He always ended up useless in the game unless I used Ankit's DB. I wouldn't have so much of a problem with what Markus is doing if it took the players ratings into consideration rather than just making a blanket decision based on age. In other word if the players ratings were at or near MLB ready then make him elgible, but if they were not then don't make him elgible. Last edited by rwd59; 06-07-2009 at 02:07 PM.

06-11-2009, 06:05 PM	#20
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	I reopened BZ 1505 for Markus' consideration.