OOTP 10 Pitching System Explanation

Nutlaw · 05-29-2009, 05:40 PM

As nearly everyone knows, OOTP 10 has introduced a number of substantial changes to its pitching system. The following will attempt to explain those changes so that OOTP 9 users will know what to expect.

First and foremost, you can still use Stuff, Movement, and Control to evaluate your pitchers as always. Some of the underlying formulas have changed, but you can continue to easily gauge a pitcher’s strikeout, home run, and walk rates based upon these numbers.

The largest and most obvious change in OOTP 10 is that a pitcher’s pitches now have their own individual ratings. These ratings serve two purposes. The first is to determine a pitcher’s Stuff rating. Quite simply, higher pitch ratings mean more strikeouts. The second purpose behind the pitch ratings is to determine how effectively a pitcher will function as a starter. As in OOTP 9, the bare minimum endurance (now called Stamina) needed in order to start is 50 on the 1-200 scale. However, pitchers now require at least three pitches whose average rating is halfway decent in order to be considered competent starters in major league ball. As you travel down to the lower levels of the minor leagues, pitchers need fewer pitches at lower ratings in order to fulfill the same duty. A pitcher’s suitability for starting at any level of play can be easily seen in a dropdown menu in the Player Profile. This dropdown menu will display a pitcher as a Starter, Borderline Starter, Emergency Starter, or Bullpen pitcher at any level of play you select. Each designation will of course perform increasingly worse in a starting pitching role.

One of the reasons why this is such an exciting change is that there is a lot more uncertainty over whether a pitching prospect will end up in a starting or relieving role once he comes of age. A vast majority of draftees will have good enough Stamina to start, but will lack a third pitch needed to do so in the majors. Just as in real life, the development of their third pitch will determine their future role and not just a static endurance rating. The Stamina rating isn’t simply there for show, however, especially as severe injuries now have a chance to reduce a pitcher’s Stamina rating. Some pitchers won’t end up healthy enough to start, despite their pitch selection. Think Kerry Wood.

Another reason why the new pitching system is an exciting advance is that managers are now given actual decisions over whether to use a pitcher in the starting rotation or the bullpen. In OOTP 9, you simply took your five best pitchers with enough endurance to start and threw them in the rotation. In OOTP 10, you will notice that pitchers are given different Stuff ratings based upon whether they are used as starters or relievers. OOTP has always given a hidden bonus to relievers to reflect the fact that batters get fewer looks at their pitches and have less of a chance to adjust to them. OOTP 10 now displays that bonus and heavily ties it to the strength of a reliever’s top two pitches as relievers have much less incentive to mix in their weaker offerings than starters, who have to mix in a third or fourth pitch to keep batters guessing. This means that a pitcher with a strong fastball, a strong slider, and a weak changeup might make for an average starting pitcher but a great reliever. You get to decide how he provides the most useful fit for your team.

A number of other minor changes have been included in OOTP 10 that help to improve the realism of its pitching system. Groundball percentage now directly factors into a player’s Movement rating and the presence of a curveball or sinker correlates to a higher groundball percentage. Also, velocity will now properly increase and decrease with age. This is important because some pitch ratings are heavily dependent upon velocity. Velocity plays a large part in a fastball’s rating but no part at all in a changeup’s rating, for instance.

Finally, we come to a relatively minor change, but one of my personal favorites. Left handed batter/right handed batter platoon splits are now based upon pitch type and strength. This means that if you are looking for a left-handed reliever who specializes in getting left handed batters out (a LOOGY), you can quickly search for those with good sliders, for instance. If you want a right handed reliever who can handle lefties and righties equally well, look for someone with a good cutter. To determine how each pitch would influence a pitcher’s platoon split in OOTP, we gathered data from real life platoon splits of pitchers who specialized in each pitch. OOTP pitchers still have their own individual platoon split ratings, so not all pitchers with the same pitches will end up with the exact same splits, but pitch types give a good general guideline. You can still view a player’s Rating tab in the Player Profile to see individual split ratings, but I’m a big fan of this change because as with many of the changes to the new system, it adds realistic depth and character to my pitchers.

Assos · 05-29-2009, 05:44 PM

So, is this "offical" from Beta land?

Ok, since it is sticked! It is!

I am first!

struggles_mightily · 05-29-2009, 05:52 PM

This sounds incredible. Obviously, the actual implementation could still be wonky in some way. But the thought process behind the features is pretty much right on the money, & that's very encouraging.

Minor quibble:

Quote:

Velocity plays a large part in a fastball’s rating but no part at all in a changeup’s rating...

Isn't one of the factors that determines a change-up's effectiveness its velocity differential as compared to the four-seam fastball? So, if a pitcher's fastball velocity declines, but his change-up velocity stays constant, the change-up might become slightly less effective.

Eh: it's a tiny point, since velocity differential is hardly the be-all and end-all in terms of a change-up's effectiveness. But I thought I'd bring it up in case anyone wants to kick it around.

battists · 05-29-2009, 05:55 PM

My name is Steve Battisti, and I approve of this message.

So, yeah, this is official. It will also be in the online manual, so don't worry about forgetting where this post is.

Raidergoo · 05-29-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by struggles_mightily

Obviously, the actual implementation could be still be wonky in some way.

The distance it has come in the past two months is tremendous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by struggles_mightily

Isn't one of the factors that determines a change-up's effectiveness its velocity differential as compared to the four-seam fastball? So, if a pitcher's fastball velocity declines, but his change-up velocity stays constant, the change-up might become slightly less effective.

Eh: it's a tiny point, since velocity differential is hardly the be-all and end-all in terms of a change-up's effectiveness. But I thought I'd bring it up in case anyone wants to kick it around.

Rome was not built in a day.

Deft · 05-29-2009, 06:02 PM

If this works as well as advertised. Watch out.

struggles_mightily · 05-29-2009, 06:04 PM

Raider:

Yeh, but if, like, Rome was being built by a really crac team of architects and they had put together 99% of Rome in an awesome way that left you thoroughly impressed, wouldn't you be interested as to why they hadn't added another house to the end of Nabonassar Blvd., regardless of whether or not you thought that local housing needs were being met without the extra building in any case?

Or to de-analogize:

I don't think that this interpretation of change-ups is going to come anywhere close to making or breaking the system. I was just wondering whether Markus and the team had considered the issue that I rose and had discounted its importance (a reasonable thing to do), or if they'd just ignored / overlooked it.

English_Ray · 05-29-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nutlaw

OOTP 10 Pitching System Explanation....

That. Sounds. Awesome.

AESP_pres · 05-29-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nutlaw

The first is to determine a pitcher’s Stuff rating. Quite simply, higher pitch ratings mean more strikeouts.

Now I understand why the pitchers in my 19th century simulation aren't good to acumulate strikeouts (the leader as usually less than 20 in a season).

Will the new system works only for the newly created game or it will works for a game started with another version of OOTP?

Assos · 05-29-2009, 06:16 PM

I have never been first in a "big" thread. It is true, Rome was not built in a day but this is major step forward in OOTP pitching, even if it works the same way.

My question is that the speed on the fastball, does it help set up the batter for something off speed to get those strikeout numbers up?

akw4572 · 05-29-2009, 06:18 PM

So, does the GM/Manager get to determine how and when a pitcher in the minors gets to work on a 3rd or 4th pitch? And if a 35 year old pitcher's fastball drops to below average, does he automatically get bumped from the rotation if he doesn't have other pitches that rate highly enough?

jarmenia · 05-29-2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assos

I have never been first in a "big" thread. It is true, Rome was not built in a day but this is major step forward in OOTP pitching, even if it works the same way.

My question is that the speed on the fastball, does it help set up the batter for something off speed to get those strikeout numbers up?

Remember OOTP does not resolve at bats on a pitch by pitch bases so to answer your question, no, it doesn't. What it does mean is that a guy with good pitches is a better pitcher than a guy with fewer good pitches.

jarmenia · 05-29-2009, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akw4572

So, does the GM/Manager get to determine how and when a pitcher in the minors gets to work on a 3rd or 4th pitch?

You as a GM don't get to decied if a guy works on another pitch but you can encourage it by starting a pitcher in the minors. I've had several two pitch pitchers develop new pitches in the minors when they were starting.
That's not to say a guy pitching in relief won't learn a new pitch, it just seems that putting them in the starting role encourages it more.

Quote:

And if a 35 year old pitcher's fastball drops to below average, does he automatically get bumped from the rotation if he doesn't have other pitches that rate highly enough?

Not automatically but his recommended role may go from start to spot starter or down to emergency starter.

NHSOXFAN · 05-29-2009, 06:39 PM

My goodness. I do believe my heart is racing and my pulse is quickening...

How many hours should I wait before consulting a doctor?

Nutlaw · 05-29-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

My name is Steve Battisti, and I approve of this message.

I'd have added the "Paid for by The Committee to Support OOTP" or some other such nonsense, but you guys don't really need to pay to advertise on your own site, do you?

Nutlaw · 05-29-2009, 06:45 PM

The pitching system isn't everything that you could ever dream of, but it's a huge step forward and is a lot of fun to play with. Personally, I am quite pleased with the implementation if you couldn't already tell.

It's tough to dig into testing by this point when you know that you've got this great new game to play around with. Really, I can't wait until I get the chance to sit down and convert my leagues.

battists · 05-29-2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NHSOXFAN

My goodness. I do believe my heart is racing and my pulse is quickening...

How many hours should I wait before consulting a doctor?

Depends how much trouble you'll get in if they do a blood/urine test.

freeurmind101 · 05-29-2009, 06:49 PM

Sounds really good. I must say just from playing the demo for IX, it seems as if OOTP is a much more in depth game than FM. This might sound silly to a few but this week I actually played baseball, well actually wiffleball for the first time with some American friends and actually learned the mechanics of the various pitches. Anywyas, yh really looking forward to the game. Was done with fianls last week, so just twiddling my thumbs really.

Nutlaw · 05-29-2009, 07:08 PM

For those not up to speed on basic OOTP pitching ratings:

Higher Stuff = more strikeouts
Higher Movement = fewer home runs
Higher Control = fewer walks

Cryomaniac · 05-29-2009, 07:39 PM

I suppose this is a reasonable place to bring this up again. How is Pat Venditte going to be rated? He, in effect, has 5 pitches (Fastball, Curve and changeup right handed, and a fastball and slider left handed).

Since I'm assuming the game can't handle switch pitching yet (I will continure my campaign if it doesn't...) how will it work?

05-29-2009, 05:40 PM	#1
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	OOTP 10 Pitching System Explanation As nearly everyone knows, OOTP 10 has introduced a number of substantial changes to its pitching system. The following will attempt to explain those changes so that OOTP 9 users will know what to expect. First and foremost, you can still use Stuff, Movement, and Control to evaluate your pitchers as always. Some of the underlying formulas have changed, but you can continue to easily gauge a pitcher’s strikeout, home run, and walk rates based upon these numbers. The largest and most obvious change in OOTP 10 is that a pitcher’s pitches now have their own individual ratings. These ratings serve two purposes. The first is to determine a pitcher’s Stuff rating. Quite simply, higher pitch ratings mean more strikeouts. The second purpose behind the pitch ratings is to determine how effectively a pitcher will function as a starter. As in OOTP 9, the bare minimum endurance (now called Stamina) needed in order to start is 50 on the 1-200 scale. However, pitchers now require at least three pitches whose average rating is halfway decent in order to be considered competent starters in major league ball. As you travel down to the lower levels of the minor leagues, pitchers need fewer pitches at lower ratings in order to fulfill the same duty. A pitcher’s suitability for starting at any level of play can be easily seen in a dropdown menu in the Player Profile. This dropdown menu will display a pitcher as a Starter, Borderline Starter, Emergency Starter, or Bullpen pitcher at any level of play you select. Each designation will of course perform increasingly worse in a starting pitching role. One of the reasons why this is such an exciting change is that there is a lot more uncertainty over whether a pitching prospect will end up in a starting or relieving role once he comes of age. A vast majority of draftees will have good enough Stamina to start, but will lack a third pitch needed to do so in the majors. Just as in real life, the development of their third pitch will determine their future role and not just a static endurance rating. The Stamina rating isn’t simply there for show, however, especially as severe injuries now have a chance to reduce a pitcher’s Stamina rating. Some pitchers won’t end up healthy enough to start, despite their pitch selection. Think Kerry Wood. Another reason why the new pitching system is an exciting advance is that managers are now given actual decisions over whether to use a pitcher in the starting rotation or the bullpen. In OOTP 9, you simply took your five best pitchers with enough endurance to start and threw them in the rotation. In OOTP 10, you will notice that pitchers are given different Stuff ratings based upon whether they are used as starters or relievers. OOTP has always given a hidden bonus to relievers to reflect the fact that batters get fewer looks at their pitches and have less of a chance to adjust to them. OOTP 10 now displays that bonus and heavily ties it to the strength of a reliever’s top two pitches as relievers have much less incentive to mix in their weaker offerings than starters, who have to mix in a third or fourth pitch to keep batters guessing. This means that a pitcher with a strong fastball, a strong slider, and a weak changeup might make for an average starting pitcher but a great reliever. You get to decide how he provides the most useful fit for your team. A number of other minor changes have been included in OOTP 10 that help to improve the realism of its pitching system. Groundball percentage now directly factors into a player’s Movement rating and the presence of a curveball or sinker correlates to a higher groundball percentage. Also, velocity will now properly increase and decrease with age. This is important because some pitch ratings are heavily dependent upon velocity. Velocity plays a large part in a fastball’s rating but no part at all in a changeup’s rating, for instance. Finally, we come to a relatively minor change, but one of my personal favorites. Left handed batter/right handed batter platoon splits are now based upon pitch type and strength. This means that if you are looking for a left-handed reliever who specializes in getting left handed batters out (a LOOGY), you can quickly search for those with good sliders, for instance. If you want a right handed reliever who can handle lefties and righties equally well, look for someone with a good cutter. To determine how each pitch would influence a pitcher’s platoon split in OOTP, we gathered data from real life platoon splits of pitchers who specialized in each pitch. OOTP pitchers still have their own individual platoon split ratings, so not all pitchers with the same pitches will end up with the exact same splits, but pitch types give a good general guideline. You can still view a player’s Rating tab in the Player Profile to see individual split ratings, but I’m a big fan of this change because as with many of the changes to the new system, it adds realistic depth and character to my pitchers.

05-29-2009, 05:55 PM	#4
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	My name is Steve Battisti, and I approve of this message. So, yeah, this is official. It will also be in the online manual, so don't worry about forgetting where this post is. __________________ Come check out my dynasty report, Funky Times!

05-29-2009, 06:02 PM	#6
Deft All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,137	If this works as well as advertised. Watch out. __________________ ATHL Louisville Jockeys (2001-present) 2002, 2007, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2020 World Champions Uniform Template 1.2

05-29-2009, 06:04 PM	#7
struggles_mightily Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 292	Raider: Yeh, but if, like, Rome was being built by a really crac team of architects and they had put together 99% of Rome in an awesome way that left you thoroughly impressed, wouldn't you be interested as to why they hadn't added another house to the end of Nabonassar Blvd., regardless of whether or not you thought that local housing needs were being met without the extra building in any case? Or to de-analogize: I don't think that this interpretation of change-ups is going to come anywhere close to making or breaking the system. I was just wondering whether Markus and the team had considered the issue that I rose and had discounted its importance (a reasonable thing to do), or if they'd just ignored / overlooked it. Last edited by struggles_mightily; 05-29-2009 at 06:08 PM.

05-29-2009, 07:39 PM	#20
Cryomaniac Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hucknall, Notts, UK Posts: 4,902	I suppose this is a reasonable place to bring this up again. How is Pat Venditte going to be rated? He, in effect, has 5 pitches (Fastball, Curve and changeup right handed, and a fastball and slider left handed). Since I'm assuming the game can't handle switch pitching yet (I will continure my campaign if it doesn't...) how will it work? __________________

05-29-2009, 05:44 PM	#2
Assos All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Just on the fair side of the foul pole! Posts: 1,768	So, is this "offical" from Beta land? Ok, since it is sticked! It is! I am first!

05-29-2009, 06:16 PM	#10
Assos All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Just on the fair side of the foul pole! Posts: 1,768	I have never been first in a "big" thread. It is true, Rome was not built in a day but this is major step forward in OOTP pitching, even if it works the same way. My question is that the speed on the fastball, does it help set up the batter for something off speed to get those strikeout numbers up?

05-29-2009, 06:18 PM	#11
akw4572 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,601	So, does the GM/Manager get to determine how and when a pitcher in the minors gets to work on a 3rd or 4th pitch? And if a 35 year old pitcher's fastball drops to below average, does he automatically get bumped from the rotation if he doesn't have other pitches that rate highly enough?

05-29-2009, 06:39 PM	#14
NHSOXFAN Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 80	My goodness. I do believe my heart is racing and my pulse is quickening... How many hours should I wait before consulting a doctor?

05-29-2009, 06:45 PM	#16
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	The pitching system isn't everything that you could ever dream of, but it's a huge step forward and is a lot of fun to play with. Personally, I am quite pleased with the implementation if you couldn't already tell. It's tough to dig into testing by this point when you know that you've got this great new game to play around with. Really, I can't wait until I get the chance to sit down and convert my leagues.

05-29-2009, 06:49 PM	#18
freeurmind101 Bat Boy Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 4	Sounds really good. I must say just from playing the demo for IX, it seems as if OOTP is a much more in depth game than FM. This might sound silly to a few but this week I actually played baseball, well actually wiffleball for the first time with some American friends and actually learned the mechanics of the various pitches. Anywyas, yh really looking forward to the game. Was done with fianls last week, so just twiddling my thumbs really.

05-29-2009, 07:08 PM	#19
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	For those not up to speed on basic OOTP pitching ratings: Higher Stuff = more strikeouts Higher Movement = fewer home runs Higher Control = fewer walks