OOTP9: That's Good, That's Bad.

Killebrew · 04-01-2009, 06:59 PM

This is a real conversation I had the other day with the President of the Hair Club for Men...

Killebrew: Some people rave about how good OOTP9 is, while others whine about how bad it is. I feel kind of in the middle on this topic, OOTP9 is both good and bad.

President of the Hair Club For Men: Look here Killebrew, as you well know, I am the President of the Hair Club For Men, and as such I don't really have the time to listen to a lot of preamble before you get to the main point of this post.

Killebrew: Okay, okay, one thing that has gradually improved since the OOTP5 days is the value of defensive prowess in OOTP9. Now defensive catchers and mid-field defensive players seem to make a huge difference, and you can finally justify playing a weak hitting guy at SS or catcher mostly for his great defense!

President of the Hair Club For Men: That's good...

Killebrew: Sure, but the entire dev engine logic is a real mess. It frequently feels like changes to this area of the game are 1 step forward, two steps back. For example, there is no dev impact logic based on how serious an injury is, and like all dev in the game, the gradual loss of ability week by week and year after year is unrealistic and annoying to most users. On top of that, there is still no user setting that can control the amount of good versus bad dev depending on how they like to play - that request has been in the pipeline since OOTP 1899 I think.

President of the Hair Club For Men: Geez, that's pretty bad...

Killebrew: It sure is, but there have been steady improvements on a players ability to learn new defensive positions. It has a ways to go yet, but it's a night & day improvement over 2 or 3 OOTP versions ago. Additionally player and team strategy options have improved.

President of the Hair Club For Men: That's good!

Killebrew: Yes, but finance logic in the game is still very thin, and many finance settings are still hard coded (EG: Merchandising Revenue) or hidden from the user. The game only calculates contracts owed into the next season, basically meaning there is zero contract risk in OOTP9 unless you come up with some nutty house rules:P. The user friendly but more detailed finance logic used in sports sims like Front Office Football was the norm for many sports sims 5 years ago, OOTP has always been behind the 8 ball in this area.

President of the Hair Club For Men: Ohhhh, that's bad.

Killebrew: Yep, but don't forget they did bring in facegen, one of the greatest sports sim game features of all time and a feature that allows the hyper active OOTP community to provide amazing additions to the game at no extra cost (I believe the user add ons are a pretty serious value add for OOTP). Yes, that means I can sim the 1976 Indians season with Boog Powell wearing one of the most hideous uniforms in baseball history.

President of the Hair Club For Men: Well surely that is good!

Killebrew: It is, and quit calling me Shirley. Unfortunately you still can't properly trade draft picks in OOTP.

President of the Hair Club For Men: That's bad, right?

Killebrew: Of course, but at the same time, OOTP does have a ton of online league capabilities that enrage Baseball Mogul supporters, stuff like sending in your teams exports directly from the game.

President of the Hair Club For Men: Well, that is obviously a good thing.

Killebrew: Not necessarily for me. You see, besides being a fan of OOTP, I also am also a fan of Baseball Mogul. [Droopy sound of a tuba going "Wah-Wah"]

President of the Hair Club For Men: Did I mention I was the President of the Hair Club For Men?

Curtis · 04-01-2009, 07:56 PM

Those of us old enough to remember the original "That's Good/That's Bad" hope you find a nice, soft haystack to land in.

That's good, right?

StyxNCa · 04-01-2009, 10:10 PM

This thread is good, but then it's also bad.

ootp2006 · 04-01-2009, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killebrew

Killebrew: It is, and quit calling me Shirley. Unfortunately you still can't properly trade draft picks in OOTP.

Wtf cares? You can't trade draft picks in real life. That's like saying you don't like NBA 2009 because they don't call pass interference often enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killebrew

Killebrew: Of course, but at the same time, OOTP does have a ton of online league capabilities that enrage Baseball Mogul supporters, stuff like sending in your teams exports directly from the game.

The newest Mogul now lets you do this. It's pretty slick but it doesn't have all the detail (like 7-day lineups) of OOTP. But it's easy to use so good for the noob friends I'm running a league for (I also am in an ootp league with online friends, since they are smart enough to handle it).

CHCfan · 04-01-2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ootp2006

Wtf cares? You can't trade draft picks in real life. That's like saying you don't like NBA 2009 because they don't call pass interference often enough.

That's quite different, of course. It's more like NBA 2009 not featuring league expansion into Europe -- something that isn't in the real life game, yet makes some sense, and could, with some semblance of reasonability, occur in the future.

Le Grande Orange · 04-02-2009, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ootp2006

Wtf cares? You can't trade draft picks in real life. That's like saying you don't like NBA 2009 because they don't call pass interference often enough.

Well, yes and no. It all depends on when non-MLB or baseball history options should be ranked as additions. There are plenty of procedures used in other leagues that would make for some interesting "what if" options for fictional league players. What if trading draft picks was allowed? What if baseball had restricted and unrestricted free agents? What if it had an NBA-style salary cap system?

Personally, I'd like to first see actual baseball history get incorporated first, and once that's done, then move on to including ideas from other sports leagues. Others may prefer inclusion on a more case-by-case basis.

fantom1979 · 04-02-2009, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ootp2006

Wtf cares? You can't trade draft picks in real life. That's like saying you don't like NBA 2009 because they don't call pass interference often enough.

I took his point more as "one step forward, two steps back". Draft pick trading is another in a long list of features that was put in half way. There are a lot of things that OOTP does very well, and there are a lot of things that OOTP does not so well. If it is in the game (which it has been since at least 2007), it needs to be correct.

Way to come out firing on your first post thought

Curtis · 04-02-2009, 05:57 AM

It just hit me that this thread belongs in the Version 9 section of the forum, it saying 'OOTP9' in the title and all.

And 'That's Good/That's Bad' was a country song/joke duet from the late '50s. Tubbs and Ford? EDIT: Flatt and Scruggs.

The Wolf · 04-02-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killebrew

You see, besides being a fan of OOTP, I also am also a fan of Baseball Mogul

You lost all credibility with me forever right there.

kcroyalgm · 04-02-2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

You lost all credibility with me forever right there.

That's good, right?

eriqjaffe · 04-02-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcroyalgm

That's good, right?

The sprinkles are also cursed!

Le Grande Orange · 04-02-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eriqjaffe

The sprinkles are also cursed!

That's bad.

Malleus Dei · 04-02-2009, 02:38 PM

The sprinkles are cursed and so is this thread.

Killebrew · 04-03-2009, 06:13 PM

I tried to be mildly entertaining with the game criticism in my post, knowing there will be a few defenders of OOTP in this forum (it being the OOTP company forum and all), but I also wanted to point out some positive things that OOTP has improved in recent versions. My lame attempts at comedy can be (and should be) ignored but it seems strange no one who replied attempted to defend the OOTP weaknesses listed, or commented on the mentioned positives of OOTP. Maybe most OOTP forum folks simply accept that this is the game they have, not the game they want?

Specifically to poster The Wolf: "You lost all credibility with me forever right there. "
Short sightedness is not a virtue. I believe that any knowledge of similar sports sims like Football Manager, FOF, Mogul, etc. is a positive when looking at ways to improve OOTP, and I suspect most OOTP fans would appreciate some of the things Mogul does well that OOTP does not.

Regarding poster ootp2006 and trading of draft picks: "Wtf cares?"
I'll assume this was an earnest question spurred by your hunger for knowledge. The answer to your "Wtf cares" question: Anyone who would like to use this current OOTP feature that only partially works. fantom1979 is correct here, it was a much requested game feature that was added to OOTP, but it's usage is limited because it does not work well. Personally I feel if a feature only partially works it can sometimes be a game improvement to remove the feature completely.

Curtis · 04-03-2009, 09:18 PM

…and that's final?

Cryomaniac · 04-03-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curtis

…and that's final?

It damn well should be

fantom1979 · 04-04-2009, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killebrew

I tried to be mildly entertaining with the game criticism in my post

I found your posts to be creative. It was a much better read than.... "OMG xxx feature suxs big time"

Thanks for taking the time to put it in a creative and interesting form.

FastLane · 04-12-2009, 03:26 PM

Well.....I got a laugh out of it.

And I still have all my hair, so THATS good.

RonCo · 04-12-2009, 03:29 PM

Killabrew is pretty danged cool if you ask me.

AndrewG · 04-13-2009, 12:40 PM

I think OOTP is a vastly superior product compared to B. Mogul.. but BM may be better for those who dont want to micro manage as much.

I own both, but really prefer OOTP, its not even close in my opinion.

However I do liek that with Mogul its much easier bing in multiple leagues. That option in OOTP is something thats difficult to do because even when managing one team, it takes time to do it properly. It all boils down to personal tasete, what they want in a game and how much time they want to put into it...

Ill stick to OOTP for my hardcore Basball simming, but have bene know to reopen BM now and again for a few quick sims...

04-01-2009, 06:59 PM	#1
Killebrew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 3,326	OOTP9: That's Good, That's Bad. This is a real conversation I had the other day with the President of the Hair Club for Men... Killebrew: Some people rave about how good OOTP9 is, while others whine about how bad it is. I feel kind of in the middle on this topic, OOTP9 is both good and bad. President of the Hair Club For Men: Look here Killebrew, as you well know, I am the President of the Hair Club For Men, and as such I don't really have the time to listen to a lot of preamble before you get to the main point of this post. Killebrew: Okay, okay, one thing that has gradually improved since the OOTP5 days is the value of defensive prowess in OOTP9. Now defensive catchers and mid-field defensive players seem to make a huge difference, and you can finally justify playing a weak hitting guy at SS or catcher mostly for his great defense! President of the Hair Club For Men: That's good... Killebrew: Sure, but the entire dev engine logic is a real mess. It frequently feels like changes to this area of the game are 1 step forward, two steps back. For example, there is no dev impact logic based on how serious an injury is, and like all dev in the game, the gradual loss of ability week by week and year after year is unrealistic and annoying to most users. On top of that, there is still no user setting that can control the amount of good versus bad dev depending on how they like to play - that request has been in the pipeline since OOTP 1899 I think. President of the Hair Club For Men: Geez, that's pretty bad... Killebrew: It sure is, but there have been steady improvements on a players ability to learn new defensive positions. It has a ways to go yet, but it's a night & day improvement over 2 or 3 OOTP versions ago. Additionally player and team strategy options have improved. President of the Hair Club For Men: That's good! Killebrew: Yes, but finance logic in the game is still very thin, and many finance settings are still hard coded (EG: Merchandising Revenue) or hidden from the user. The game only calculates contracts owed into the next season, basically meaning there is zero contract risk in OOTP9 unless you come up with some nutty house rules:P. The user friendly but more detailed finance logic used in sports sims like Front Office Football was the norm for many sports sims 5 years ago, OOTP has always been behind the 8 ball in this area. President of the Hair Club For Men: Ohhhh, that's bad. Killebrew: Yep, but don't forget they did bring in facegen, one of the greatest sports sim game features of all time and a feature that allows the hyper active OOTP community to provide amazing additions to the game at no extra cost (I believe the user add ons are a pretty serious value add for OOTP). Yes, that means I can sim the 1976 Indians season with Boog Powell wearing one of the most hideous uniforms in baseball history. President of the Hair Club For Men: Well surely that is good! Killebrew: It is, and quit calling me Shirley. Unfortunately you still can't properly trade draft picks in OOTP. President of the Hair Club For Men: That's bad, right? Killebrew: Of course, but at the same time, OOTP does have a ton of online league capabilities that enrage Baseball Mogul supporters, stuff like sending in your teams exports directly from the game. President of the Hair Club For Men: Well, that is obviously a good thing. Killebrew: Not necessarily for me. You see, besides being a fan of OOTP, I also am also a fan of Baseball Mogul. [Droopy sound of a tuba going "Wah-Wah"] President of the Hair Club For Men: Did I mention I was the President of the Hair Club For Men?

04-02-2009, 05:57 AM	#8
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	It just hit me that this thread belongs in the Version 9 section of the forum, it saying 'OOTP9' in the title and all. And 'That's Good/That's Bad' was a country song/joke duet from the late '50s. Tubbs and Ford? EDIT: Flatt and Scruggs. Last edited by Curtis; 04-02-2009 at 04:04 PM.

04-12-2009, 03:26 PM	#18
FastLane Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 481	Well.....I got a laugh out of it. And I still have all my hair, so THATS good. __________________ You know it's summertime at Candlestick when the fog rolls in, the wind kicks up, and you see the center fielder slicing open a caribou to survive the ninth inning. ~Bob Sarlette Hating the New York Yankees is as American as apple pie, unwed mothers and cheating on your income tax. ~Mike Royko

04-01-2009, 07:56 PM	#2
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	Those of us old enough to remember the original "That's Good/That's Bad" hope you find a nice, soft haystack to land in. That's good, right?

04-01-2009, 10:10 PM	#3
StyxNCa Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Victoria, Texas Posts: 3,136	This thread is good, but then it's also bad.

04-03-2009, 06:13 PM	#14
Killebrew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 3,326	I tried to be mildly entertaining with the game criticism in my post, knowing there will be a few defenders of OOTP in this forum (it being the OOTP company forum and all), but I also wanted to point out some positive things that OOTP has improved in recent versions. My lame attempts at comedy can be (and should be) ignored but it seems strange no one who replied attempted to defend the OOTP weaknesses listed, or commented on the mentioned positives of OOTP. Maybe most OOTP forum folks simply accept that this is the game they have, not the game they want? Specifically to poster The Wolf: *"You lost all credibility with me forever right there. "* Short sightedness is not a virtue. I believe that any knowledge of similar sports sims like Football Manager, FOF, Mogul, etc. is a positive when looking at ways to improve OOTP, and I suspect most OOTP fans would appreciate some of the things Mogul does well that OOTP does not. Regarding poster ootp2006 and trading of draft picks: *"Wtf cares?"* I'll assume this was an earnest question spurred by your hunger for knowledge. The answer to your "Wtf cares" question: Anyone who would like to use this current OOTP feature that only partially works. fantom1979 is correct here, it was a much requested game feature that was added to OOTP, but it's usage is limited because it does not work well. Personally I feel if a feature only partially works it can sometimes be a game improvement to remove the feature completely.

04-03-2009, 09:18 PM	#15
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	…and that's final?

04-12-2009, 03:29 PM	#19
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 10,444	Killabrew is pretty danged cool if you ask me.

04-13-2009, 12:40 PM	#20
AndrewG Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Pointe Claire, PQ, CANADA Posts: 317	I think OOTP is a vastly superior product compared to B. Mogul.. but BM may be better for those who dont want to micro manage as much. I own both, but really prefer OOTP, its not even close in my opinion. However I do liek that with Mogul its much easier bing in multiple leagues. That option in OOTP is something thats difficult to do because even when managing one team, it takes time to do it properly. It all boils down to personal tasete, what they want in a game and how much time they want to put into it... Ill stick to OOTP for my hardcore Basball simming, but have bene know to reopen BM now and again for a few quick sims...