Work ethic and Intelligence matter?

clemonte · 03-30-2009, 02:55 AM

So how do work ethic and intelligence affect the players?

sayheykid · 03-30-2009, 03:26 AM

I have found a player with high ratings for Int and Work tend to develop faster (if they do develop - sometimes they are still a bust.)

Simon_Nesbit · 03-30-2009, 05:37 AM

My (limited) experience = Int & WE ++ development (quicker and more likely).
WE = slower decline, less injury.

PSUColonel · 03-30-2009, 07:38 AM

I don't understand why less injury would be a factor of WE???

Cryomaniac · 03-30-2009, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I don't understand why less injury would be a factor of WE???

People with higher work ethic are more likely to work harder on fitness, conditioning, etc. so they'd be less likely to get injured.

nyy26wc · 03-30-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

People with higher work ethic are more likely to work harder on fitness, conditioning, etc. so they'd be less likely to get injured.

Shouldn't that be already be factored into the injury ratings?

Malleus Dei · 03-30-2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyy26wc

Shouldn't that be already be factored into the injury ratings?

Logically, given two guys whose knees are equally structurally likely to go out, the one who takes better care of his body is less likely to be the one of the two who gets injured.

nyy26wc · 03-30-2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Logically, given two guys whose knees are equally structurally likely to go out, the one who takes better care of his body is less likely to be the one of the two who gets injured.

But, shouldn't the legs injury proness rating (which might be what knees are covered by in OOTP9, there is no knee injury proneness rating) take into account how well he takes care of his body.

For example, Nolan Ryan would have an exceptional leg injury proneness rating, which was a result of his work ethic. Should he then have his work ethic count twice?

Let me analogize to bunting for a base hit. Shouldn't speed be irrelevant to the players odds? A player with a high bunting for a base hit rating already has to have the fact that he's fast factored into it.

JackRules1 · 03-30-2009, 11:08 AM

I don't know about the ratings, but I like to draft guys with high I+WE numbers.

elfdog428 · 03-30-2009, 11:51 AM

I would have to disagree with that assumption. Yes speed may be a factor on determining if a batter can out run a bunt, but saying that is is part of his rating for bunting for basehit is a little much. Lots of things could factor in for a bunting for base hit rating. Bat control, placement, lot so different things go into the determination before the runners speed is taken into effect. At least that seems more logical to me.

satchel · 03-30-2009, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyy26wc

But, shouldn't the legs injury proness rating (which might be what knees are covered by in OOTP9, there is no knee injury proneness rating) take into account how well he takes care of his body.

The game looks at those two variables (predisposition to injury, and work ethic) as independent constructs, and it makes sense.

RchW · 03-30-2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

People with higher work ethic are more likely to work harder on fitness, conditioning, etc. so they'd be less likely to get injured.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyy26wc

Shouldn't that be already be factored into the injury ratings?

Depends on the injury. A real life example from a few years back was Roy Halladay, noted for a legendary work ethic yet gets hit with a line drive, bang a broken leg. The same lack of correlation extends to batters getting hit on the hand elbow or head and concussions etc. from collisions.

There is some evidence to suggest that some athletes who work out too much or too hard develop tightness that actually increases injury potential.

Neags23 · 03-30-2009, 03:38 PM

Somewhat on topic, so it's not a total thread hijack, but I've been curious about the 'Leadership' rating recently.

I haven't figured out how to run a test for this, because there would be so many combinations. Does a team perform better with one or two guys with a high Leadership rating? Does a team perform poorly with no one or too many with a high Leadership rating? Or is this rating purely cosmetic?

The manual says: "Players with high leadership have some positive effect on other players in the clubhouse, potentially affecting both their performance and their development."

But again, this seems difficult to really nail down. Anyone have any observations?

Afino · 03-30-2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neags23

Somewhat on topic, so it's not a total thread hijack, but I've been curious about the 'Leadership' rating recently.

I haven't figured out how to run a test for this, because there would be so many combinations. Does a team perform better with one or two guys with a high Leadership rating? Does a team perform poorly with no one or too many with a high Leadership rating? Or is this rating purely cosmetic?

The manual says: "Players with high leadership have some positive effect on other players in the clubhouse, potentially affecting both their performance and their development."

But again, this seems difficult to really nail down. Anyone have any observations?

One thing is true: you either have leadership or you don't.

I did an analysis a while ago on the breakdown of the "intangibles", and one of my conclusions is that maybe 1 in 10 players (I don't remember the exact ratio) is even remotely capable of being a "leader".

The team I had at the time had three of these high Leadership players (one in the OF, one in the IF, and one pitcher), but I have no idea if it was cosmetic or not because that team dominated anyways.

boomer79 · 03-30-2009, 09:13 PM

Supposedly batters are less likely to slump if they have high workout and I'm pretty sure that's in the manual. I"m not sure if that would apply to pitchers. Intelligence is supposed to affect baseball decisions which I've heard is very important with pitchers. This would make sense if things like hold runners, pitch around, and intentionally walking a hitter were affected by the pitchers' intelligence. I have also noticed that more often than not good pitchers have high intelligence.

I have not run tests on this but I'm pretty sure about he work ethic. If I have a good hitter in a horrible slump more often than not he'll have very low work ethic and it's in the manual also so I assume it's accurate.

DrSatan · 03-30-2009, 09:21 PM

I've noticed that guys with high work ethic ratings tend to be the guys that get the ratings boost. I always look for these guys in the late rounds. The only reason I noticed was because I was almost never getting ratings boosts on my prospects. After looking around I noticed almost all of them had low or mediocre WE ratings. After that I starting hunting for guys with higher ratings, and I got some boosts. It may just be a coincedence though. I haven't done any real testing.

boomer79 · 03-30-2009, 10:00 PM

The thing I would be interested in is if work ethic has any effect on pitchers other than player development. It makes hitters less streaky but I've notcied my starting pitchers go into terrible funks. Like I said earlier intelligence seems to be a more popular attribute with pitchers, but I'm wondering if it can decrease streakiness like it does with hitting.

The Wolf · 03-31-2009, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satchel

The game looks at those two variables (predisposition to injury, and work ethic) as independent constructs, and it makes sense.

"

satchel · 03-31-2009, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSatan

I've noticed that guys with high work ethic ratings tend to be the guys that get the ratings boost.

My guys with high work ethic seem to develop more quickly.

03-30-2009, 02:55 AM	#1
clemonte Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 15 Infractions: 0/1 (4)	Work ethic and Intelligence matter? So how do work ethic and intelligence affect the players?

03-30-2009, 11:51 AM	#10
elfdog428 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 76	I would have to disagree with that assumption. Yes speed may be a factor on determining if a batter can out run a bunt, but saying that is is part of his rating for bunting for basehit is a little much. Lots of things could factor in for a bunting for base hit rating. Bat control, placement, lot so different things go into the determination before the runners speed is taken into effect. At least that seems more logical to me. __________________ Indians and Pirates Fan UFBL Pirates

03-30-2009, 03:38 PM	#13
Neags23 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,577	Somewhat on topic, so it's not a total thread hijack, but I've been curious about the 'Leadership' rating recently. I haven't figured out how to run a test for this, because there would be so many combinations. Does a team perform better with one or two guys with a high Leadership rating? Does a team perform poorly with no one or too many with a high Leadership rating? Or is this rating purely cosmetic? The manual says: "Players with high leadership have some positive effect on other players in the clubhouse, potentially affecting both their performance and their development." But again, this seems difficult to really nail down. Anyone have any observations? __________________ GM Havana Sugar Kings, World Baseball League - 2000, 2003, 2005 WBL Champions Former GM Washburn Sea Wolves Dog Days Baseball - 1981 & 1986 Kennel Cup Champions

03-30-2009, 03:26 AM	#2
sayheykid Minors (Single A) Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver Posts: 79	I have found a player with high ratings for Int and Work tend to develop faster (if they do develop - sometimes they are still a bust.)

03-30-2009, 05:37 AM	#3
Simon_Nesbit Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 260	My (limited) experience = Int & WE ++ development (quicker and more likely). WE = slower decline, less injury.

03-30-2009, 07:38 AM	#4
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,107	I don't understand why less injury would be a factor of WE???

03-30-2009, 11:08 AM	#9
JackRules1 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Central Florida Posts: 245	I don't know about the ratings, but I like to draft guys with high I+WE numbers.

03-30-2009, 09:13 PM	#15
boomer79 Bat Boy Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 6	Supposedly batters are less likely to slump if they have high workout and I'm pretty sure that's in the manual. I"m not sure if that would apply to pitchers. Intelligence is supposed to affect baseball decisions which I've heard is very important with pitchers. This would make sense if things like hold runners, pitch around, and intentionally walking a hitter were affected by the pitchers' intelligence. I have also noticed that more often than not good pitchers have high intelligence. I have not run tests on this but I'm pretty sure about he work ethic. If I have a good hitter in a horrible slump more often than not he'll have very low work ethic and it's in the manual also so I assume it's accurate.

03-30-2009, 09:21 PM	#16
DrSatan All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 596	I've noticed that guys with high work ethic ratings tend to be the guys that get the ratings boost. I always look for these guys in the late rounds. The only reason I noticed was because I was almost never getting ratings boosts on my prospects. After looking around I noticed almost all of them had low or mediocre WE ratings. After that I starting hunting for guys with higher ratings, and I got some boosts. It may just be a coincedence though. I haven't done any real testing.

03-30-2009, 10:00 PM	#17
boomer79 Bat Boy Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 6	The thing I would be interested in is if work ethic has any effect on pitchers other than player development. It makes hitters less streaky but I've notcied my starting pitchers go into terrible funks. Like I said earlier intelligence seems to be a more popular attribute with pitchers, but I'm wondering if it can decrease streakiness like it does with hitting.