train player at new position?

bts050 · 09-05-2008, 05:13 PM

Is there a way to train players for new positions? My minor league system is stacked with outfielders and I'd like to move some of them to the infield. Is it as simple as changing the position in a player's profile? It would seem like there should be a formal training program or something.

Gio · 09-06-2008, 12:56 PM

Short of breaking out Commish mode and editing the player(s) in question, the only way to learn a new position is via on-the-job training.

In my solo league I've had to do this, as I'm often shafted by the GM AI. I've had variable success, but it *is* doable. The player that you want to learn the new position has to play fairly regularly, though; don't expect them to pick up new skills sitting on the bench half the time..

- Gio

1998 Yankees · 09-06-2008, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gio

Short of breaking out Commish mode and editing the player(s) in question, the only way to learn a new position is via on-the-job training.

In my solo league I've had to do this, as I'm often shafted by the GM AI. I've had variable success, but it *is* doable. The player that you want to learn the new position has to play fairly regularly, though; don't expect them to pick up new skills sitting on the bench half the time..

- Gio

This is true, but there is another aspect. I attached a text file below with some notes that I gathered on the subject from the manual and these forums. Part of it says:

Quote:

The game enforces skill minimums for each position, in order to keep players from getting a fielding rating at positions they're not suited for. On the 1-250 rating scale internally used by the game (which is what is displayed in the editor) and with a minimum experience of 100, players will get position ratings if they have these minimum skills . . .

It goes on to list those minimums, then it says:

Quote:

Players lacking these minimum requirements will not get a position rating no matter how long they play that position. More specifically, it seems that the game assigns an internal rating of 1 to such a player once he has reached the minimum experience of 100 for that position, but he will not get any higher rating than 1 with additional experience beyond that (up to maximum 200) and there will be no rating displayed within the game, e.g. in the player profile.

So, some players will never learn a position, no matter how much experience they get playing it.

bigMatt · 09-07-2008, 11:40 AM

I notice that, in my solo historic league, the players unlearn the position from one season to the next.

In other words, let's say I've been using Don Buford all season at shortstop. His rating, whatever it got to that season, no longer appears when Spring Training begins the next season.

Is this a byproduct of recalc, or is there something more insidious going on?

silentrob · 09-07-2008, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigMatt

Is this a byproduct of recalc, or is there something more insidious going on?

I think this is the recalc at work, though maybe someone more veteran than I can think of other possibilities.

For your original question, bts, players will only learn new positions with any degree of competence if they have fielding abilities at the new position you want them to learn. On the player page, under the editor tab, if you look on the right side under fielding, you'll see the players rated 1-250 at various abilities in the infield, outfield, and at catcher. So if you want to train an outfielder to play infield, but he has low/minimum abilities as an infielder, it is probably an exercise in futility; he will never be a decent infielder.

If the player does have ok ratings, he can learn the position. Then its just a matter of playing games, either major or minor league, to build up the necessary experience.

dieselboy · 10-16-2008, 03:27 AM

Bump

So I read the .txt file. Didn't know that a player can have such low ratings that they won't even register with a rating for the position.

But what about playing those guys out of position anyways? In my MP league I have three of my best hitters at very limited positions. Plus, I am in the non-DH league. One is a 1B who can only play first base, everything else is the lowest rating. I have a Catcher who can also play 1B at an average level.

And then I have another Catcher who while he only has ratings for C and 1B, I think he could have potential to be less than horrible at LF and possibly even 3B.

In our league fielding ratings are on a 2-8 scale.

OF Range: 3
OF Error: 2
OF Arm : 5
---
IF Range: 2
IF Error: 3
IF Arm: 6
DP: 2

Thoughts? Anyone have experience playing someone like this out of position, even though they will never gain a rating? For my current situation it would only be temporary. I think I would maybe play the guy at 3B maybe 5-10 times all season and in LF maybe 25-30 times. That would be up to 40 more starts for my third best overall hitter.

-Also, one manager in my league has played a guy who is rated 3-4-3 at RF for an entire season. No rating for RF. The guy played 128 starts:
TC: 184
PO: 167
Assist: 5
Error: 12
%: .935
RF: 1.43

Are those numbers completely awful?

dieselboy · 10-20-2008, 12:54 PM

No thoughts on this?

bjkat81 · 10-20-2008, 01:34 PM

those numbers for your RF don't look too bad. reminds me of the A's and Hatteberg. One thing that isn't taken into consideration though is the RF's ability to get to balls. You could have a terrible fielder out there who isn't making plays, but his stats look good because he's not making errors. There's a James stat for this, but I forget what it's called, and I'm not sure if the game uses it or not.

dieselboy · 10-20-2008, 02:50 PM

I figure that has to do with RF. Range Factor.

1998 Yankees · 10-20-2008, 06:01 PM

Casey Stengel said "You gotta have a catcher. If you don't have a catcher you'll have all passed balls."

Seriously, you can play people out of position, without defensive ratings. Most of the time, they will make routine plays. You will notice many more errors, of course. What you may not notice is some batted balls being non-played into hits because your player does not have the range or the arm to make the play (or double play). You don't see that spelled out in the PbP.

bjkat81 · 10-21-2008, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkat81

those numbers for your RF don't look too bad. reminds me of the A's and Hatteberg. One thing that isn't taken into consideration though is the RF's ability to get to balls. You could have a terrible fielder out there who isn't making plays, but his stats look good because he's not making errors. There's a James stat for this, but I forget what it's called, and I'm not sure if the game uses it or not.

I was thinking of Zone ratings. Does anyone know if OOTP uses a stat like this?

Fielding Bible

bjkat81 · 10-25-2008, 09:43 PM

i've been trying to train two players at new positions. I'm coming off a huge year with a .740 winning percentage, and with basically the exact same team, this year my percentage is something like .540. I looked and saw that my two 'new position' guys each have 20 errors at the all-star break. I seriously do not recommend training a new position in the majors for this reason, especially in the infield.

Afino · 10-26-2008, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkat81

i've been trying to train two players at new positions. I'm coming off a huge year with a .740 winning percentage, and with basically the exact same team, this year my percentage is something like .540. I looked and saw that my two 'new position' guys each have 20 errors at the all-star break. I seriously do not recommend training a new position in the majors for this reason, especially in the infield.

I learned this the hard way myself.

Just to get his bat into the lineup, I moved a prospect who is normally a 3B over to 2B after an injury to my 2B.......he made 9 errors in 16 games before I gave up and just benched him.

Although he does now have a rating of 8 on a 1-100 scale!!

Of course, the defensive spectrum probably could have told me this was going to happen....I was willing to take the bad with the good, but then he stopped hitting too.

sayheykid · 10-27-2008, 06:36 PM

I haven't been playing this game very long, but I tend to be cautious in this respect. I assume a 2B can probably pick up on SS pretty easily, whereas a Catcher probably won't make the grade. I've done 1B-3B, moved outfielders depending on their arm and mobility.

Kanonen80 · 11-06-2008, 06:59 PM

I've often been surprised how terrible my back-up CF was when I had to stick him in RF after an injury to my starting Right-fielder. I would think that someone who is capable of playing CF in the majors would not look like a total klutz when shifted over a little bit.

I also get upset when I have a corner outfielder who i totally incompetent at playing the other corner. I understand that they will be worse but you'd think someone rated 9 out of 10 in RF could handle LF with at least a 4-5 rating.

I guess some guys just can't handle the angle change.

Isura · 11-06-2008, 07:30 PM

Play them during spring training. But this uses an option year (I think, maybe not if you remove them from 40 man roster before the regular season).

Soze · 02-25-2009, 10:24 PM

Bumping this with an addition to the original question...

I have a 1B Jason Stokes who is a 21 overall / 33 potential but if I switch his position to SS, his potential grows to 55? Any reason for this? Should I actually play this guy (6'4", 221 pounds, throws left) at SS?

I've noticed a few players (some more reasonable ie SS to 2B) and they will get potential ratings boosts? Is this something that actually works?

09-05-2008, 05:13 PM	#1
bts050 Bat Boy Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1	train player at new position? Is there a way to train players for new positions? My minor league system is stacked with outfielders and I'd like to move some of them to the infield. Is it as simple as changing the position in a player's profile? It would seem like there should be a formal training program or something.

09-06-2008, 12:56 PM	#2
Gio Bat Boy Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 16	Short of breaking out Commish mode and editing the player(s) in question, the only way to learn a new position is via on-the-job training. In my solo league I've had to do this, as I'm often shafted by the GM AI. I've had variable success, but it is doable. The player that you want to learn the new position has to play fairly regularly, though; don't expect them to pick up new skills sitting on the bench half the time.. - Gio

09-07-2008, 11:40 AM	#4
bigMatt Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kansas Posts: 2,378	I notice that, in my solo historic league, the players unlearn the position from one season to the next. In other words, let's say I've been using Don Buford all season at shortstop. His rating, whatever it got to that season, no longer appears when Spring Training begins the next season. Is this a byproduct of recalc, or is there something more insidious going on?

10-16-2008, 03:27 AM	#6
dieselboy Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Earth Posts: 69	Bump So I read the .txt file. Didn't know that a player can have such low ratings that they won't even register with a rating for the position. But what about playing those guys out of position anyways? In my MP league I have three of my best hitters at very limited positions. Plus, I am in the non-DH league. One is a 1B who can only play first base, everything else is the lowest rating. I have a Catcher who can also play 1B at an average level. And then I have another Catcher who while he only has ratings for C and 1B, I think he could have potential to be less than horrible at LF and possibly even 3B. In our league fielding ratings are on a 2-8 scale. OF Range: 3 OF Error: 2 OF Arm : 5 --- IF Range: 2 IF Error: 3 IF Arm: 6 DP: 2 Thoughts? Anyone have experience playing someone like this out of position, even though they will never gain a rating? For my current situation it would only be temporary. I think I would maybe play the guy at 3B maybe 5-10 times all season and in LF maybe 25-30 times. That would be up to 40 more starts for my third best overall hitter. -Also, one manager in my league has played a guy who is rated 3-4-3 at RF for an entire season. No rating for RF. The guy played 128 starts: TC: 184 PO: 167 Assist: 5 Error: 12 %: .935 RF: 1.43 Are those numbers completely awful?

10-20-2008, 12:54 PM	#7
dieselboy Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Earth Posts: 69	No thoughts on this?

10-20-2008, 01:34 PM	#8
bjkat81 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 26	those numbers for your RF don't look too bad. reminds me of the A's and Hatteberg. One thing that isn't taken into consideration though is the RF's ability to get to balls. You could have a terrible fielder out there who isn't making plays, but his stats look good because he's not making errors. There's a James stat for this, but I forget what it's called, and I'm not sure if the game uses it or not.

10-20-2008, 02:50 PM	#9
dieselboy Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Earth Posts: 69	I figure that has to do with RF. Range Factor.

10-20-2008, 06:01 PM	#10
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	Casey Stengel said "You gotta have a catcher. If you don't have a catcher you'll have all passed balls." Seriously, you can play people out of position, without defensive ratings. Most of the time, they will make routine plays. You will notice many more errors, of course. What you may not notice is some batted balls being non-played into hits because your player does not have the range or the arm to make the play (or double play). You don't see that spelled out in the PbP.

10-25-2008, 09:43 PM	#12
bjkat81 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 26	i've been trying to train two players at new positions. I'm coming off a huge year with a .740 winning percentage, and with basically the exact same team, this year my percentage is something like .540. I looked and saw that my two 'new position' guys each have 20 errors at the all-star break. I seriously do not recommend training a new position in the majors for this reason, especially in the infield.

10-27-2008, 06:36 PM	#14
sayheykid Minors (Single A) Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver Posts: 79	I haven't been playing this game very long, but I tend to be cautious in this respect. I assume a 2B can probably pick up on SS pretty easily, whereas a Catcher probably won't make the grade. I've done 1B-3B, moved outfielders depending on their arm and mobility.

11-06-2008, 06:59 PM	#15
Kanonen80 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 69	I've often been surprised how terrible my back-up CF was when I had to stick him in RF after an injury to my starting Right-fielder. I would think that someone who is capable of playing CF in the majors would not look like a total klutz when shifted over a little bit. I also get upset when I have a corner outfielder who i totally incompetent at playing the other corner. I understand that they will be worse but you'd think someone rated 9 out of 10 in RF could handle LF with at least a 4-5 rating. I guess some guys just can't handle the angle change.

11-06-2008, 07:30 PM	#16
Isura Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 361	Play them during spring training. But this uses an option year (I think, maybe not if you remove them from 40 man roster before the regular season).

02-25-2009, 10:24 PM	#17
Soze Minors (Single A) Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 52	Bumping this with an addition to the original question... I have a 1B Jason Stokes who is a 21 overall / 33 potential but if I switch his position to SS, his potential grows to 55? Any reason for this? Should I actually play this guy (6'4", 221 pounds, throws left) at SS? I've noticed a few players (some more reasonable ie SS to 2B) and they will get potential ratings boosts? Is this something that actually works?