TotalMinors v 1.1 Released

[DCHepler25]

First of all, thanks to GForce, chinaski, and Bravo for doing a great job explaining the issue with fan loyalty, interest and attendance!
I couldn't have said it better myself.

What I was shooting for, and what I think everyone wanted, were realistic market sizes, fan loyalty and interest ratings. The market sizes are what GForce came-up with and gave to me. I came-up with the loyalty ratings based on attendance per win over the past 5 seasons. I compared that with the market size and used a bell curve to come-up with reasonable loyalty setings. With those loyalty settings and ticket price set to $10 across the board, I simmed the 2003 season only and compared those generated attendance figures to the real 2002 figures. Then I continued tweaking the fan interest numbers until the 2003 attendance was consistantly within +/- 100,000 of 2002. I also took into consideration a teams' win total in the simmed season compared to real 2002 wins. If a given team won more then I considered that when looking at the new attendance figures. If the team did the same or worse, then I tried to get their 2003 attendance equal, not less for worse performances. I hope this helps.

Again, I agree that all the figures are low, but I think I did sound testing, and I also agree with Bravo that the issue is in the game and not in these fan interest numbers. Boston and several other teams probably should have higher numbers, and the Angels just won the World Series - shouldn't their number be higher than 51? But if I set it at 100, they'll just raise their ticket price to $13 or $14 an still draw 3.5 - 4 million. They haven't averaged 2.5 million over the last 5 years. I hope this helped.

I really want to explain exactly how I came up with these numbers, but I'm afraid it will take 3 pages in this thread to do so. So what I will do is, take a few days to type something up with Notepad and then post a link to it here.

I will try to answer a few of the easier questions now:
1. I Am The Game asked for the numbers GF was talking about.
I know this isn't an answer but, what "numbers" do you want?
2. Bravo's wasn't a guestion but I actually simmed the 2003 season about 50 times while trying to perfect these settings. I'll look back over my notes and get you an exact number soon.

DH

[Bravo 1/5 USHA]

No problem DC...I'm just glad someone agreed with me about something..... (BRAVO wipes the sweat off his brow and sighs to himself...sheesh..it's not easy being a newb...)

[GForce22]

as an aside, I've spent a lot of my down time at work today researching the amateur draft guys and think I will be able to get them, particualarly the hitters, more accurate than I thought before. Pitchers are tougher, so their overall talents are really just based on how highly they are rated by Baseball America and TeamOneBaseball (a GREAT site if you're interested in minor leagues and amateur baseball). But I like what I've got right now.

As for the loyalty/fan interest numbers, you need to keep in mind that the game may not weigh these things ideally. Getting to the proper attendance numbers are key. Whatever numbers it takes to get there are somewhat meaningless, because the entire purpose of the loyalty/fan interest, etc. is to get that number accurate in the first place.

GH

[x94blair3]

I'm just curious, perhaps I'm missing where it was discussed. It'll be great to have the attende #'s look good but I have two concerns:

How will those higher or lower #'s affect the financials of the game? In other words, sure the current attendance might be off, but it also fits with the overall flow of 70% salaries etc. Won't that now be impacted?

Also, what happens in the future? I'm sure you tested these a few seasons out, just concerned that even if the financials ARE adding up for the first couple seasons, wondering if there will be long term fallout.

This isn't CRITICISM, or making a BIG deal out of something I can just change back if I don't like it. I know the effort in these projects, and I also realize if I don't like something i can fix it myself. This is just curiousity

Thanks,

Nick

*edit* god my grammer and spelling is bad. This is at least better.

[PocketAces9900]

I agree with the Red Sox comment. Looking at the figure of 86 and a Chicago Cubs of 61? Cubs regularly sell out their ball park even though the capacity is small they regularly sell out.....No matter how high you raise the ticket prices, the Cubs have a strong following for the team and for the field.

[I Am The Game]

I want to start with I do appreciate the work they do. I run a league, and know what it's like to be underappreciated with your work. I don't have a "beef" with anybody, I was simply just saying my thoughts. What if something happened that he didn't realize? That's all I was doing. Not complaining or anything.

Anyway...

I don't think you can really get higher then Boston and the Cubs normally get for attendance because they almost always sell out. With a 95 fan interest, it's not like the Red Sox fan draw 50,000+ a game because Fenway's limit is 37,000 or something like that.

And just because the Angels won the World Series doesn't mean they should be 100. The A's are always competitive and have four very good young pitchers, and one on the horizen, and they'd be like a 50 if fan interest were measured in MLB.

[GForce22]

i say again, if the attendance figures come out right, then the fan interest number does its job. If you get the right result at 20 or 80 it doesn't matter. The result is what matters.

GH

[I Am The Game]

That is why I would like to see the numbers.

Things like the 2003 OOTP5 attendance numbers and the 2002 real attendance numbers, average record that he got simming the 2003 season a few times, stuff that DC thinks is the vital part of this experiment that won't take a while to explain. If it does, then no big deal I'll just wait till he posts his ReadMe.

[PocketAces9900]

Let me reitterate that I appreciate the hard work I was just posting a little constructive critisicsm. I think that the Cubs having a 61 and Cincy having a 75? Even though Cincy having a new stadium their fans are so apathetic o any situation out there that there is no way they would have higher numbers and in this formula 14 is a huge drastic number. Wrigley and Fenway sit the same amount of people actually Wrigley might be just a bit more but it regularly sells out and same with Fenway so those numbers should be very comprable. Wrigley can't draw 50,000 people cause it only holds 38000 so even if the number is 100 they can't draw more than that and if the argument is that we as owners or gms of the cubs could drive the tickets up to 13 or 14 dollars and still draw sell out isn't correct. Trust me, I've had near 100 loyalty for the Cubs and once I increase that ticket price past 12 dollars they all leave.....Obviously not true Cub or Wrigley fans cause everyone knows we play 28 bucks for bleahcers in the summer....Hee Hee....Just my thoughts on the situation.

[KySteveH]

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[bauermj]

[GForce22]

first off, don't go changing this into a pissing contest thread please.

Second, the whole financial part of this game is very hard to manage, largely because you're trying to create income figures such as sales and broadcast figures, without having any of the outflow/overhead. The game is just not designed for that, which is fine. But what that means is that, to do an MLB roster set with remotely accurate financials, the numbers need to get played with.

I haven't seen DC's numbers yet. All I know is that he has been working very hard to get this right so the attendance figures will come out right. I'll give him benefit of the doubt just out of appreciation for his efforts until I see they don't work. If they don't, then we'll mess with it some more.

GH

[chinaski]

All i know is the less time Gforce spends posting, the quicker these rosters come out! Im pissing myself in anticipation!

[GForce22]

LOL!!!

Ok, back to work...doing a little bonus add-on actually (really small thing, but neat

GH

[GForce22]

can you guys think of anything I should put in/explain in the ReadMe?

GH

[Viva Los Expos]

Not sure if it belongs in the readme or not, but are the player ratings ballpark-adjusted? Just wondering if you attempted to compensate for, e.g., Coors-inflated statistics.

[brooklynbums]

GForce,

First of all, thanks for all the hard work. I am a relative newbie, so I would hope the "read me" file would have the steps to implement all aspects of your roster set (including the team specifics such as market size and fan loyalty as well as the players themselves).

I am looking forward to the release, what is the latest on the expected release?

[GForce22]

well market size and all will be in the set. Do you mean how we came up with the numbers?
The release will have accurate park factors as specified by Stats Inc. for each park rated from 2000-2002. Coors ratings have been adjusted downward a bit to reflect park issues there. Less so with Minute Maid Park.

It will be released Sunday at the latest, maybe as early as Friday. Assume Sunday and if it's out earlier consider it a surprise

GH

[I Am The Game]

Of course, a "I don't mind if you use this, just give me proper credit" should be put in

[GForce22]

LOL!!! Yes, that's in there

GH