2009 Atlanta Braves offseason

[rudel.dietrich]

Suprised one of these has not gotten started yet.
So far the theme seems to be Pitching Pitching Pitching! With all the injuries last season it is really hard to know exactly how good/bad the team is. The offense was middle of the pack last season until the last few months when the team really turned it on. They finished 6th in runs and a excellent 3rd in BA and OBP. The downside was the lack of power as evidence by finishing 10th in SLG.

But again it is hard to know just how good the offense is since major parts of it are missing. Tex and his 136 OPS+ are gone. Chipper is consistent in numbers but always a mystery in terms of just how many games he will play.
McCann continues to be one the best offensive catcher in the NL. But how wise is it to rely on the most unreliable of position players?

Pitching meanwhile was a real mess. 12th in ERA led to being 12th in wins as well. In fact the staff was 10-12th in most every important pitching category.
Vasquez has already been acquired by the White Sox. His most important statistic is probably how much game time he logs. In every season since 2000 he has pitched 200+ innings except in 2004 where he threw 198. His ERA tends to hover right around league average. But when no Braves starter even came close to 200 innings in 2008 we will take league average.
The other solution seems to be AJ Burnett. Personaly I think handing out a 80 million dollar contract to a pitcher with a history of injury problems. I would let him go to the Yankees who have enough revenue to cover potential disasters.

So who else is out there for the Braves? Who in the farm system can we look forward too?
Should the Braves look to try and score even more runs next season by going after Dunn or Burrell?

And on a personal note. My intense and burning hatred towards Jeff Francoeur on the field skills continues. He now finds himself turning 25 before the 2009 season and coming off a season in which he was a complete and utter black hole in his teams lineup. There is no possible way in which the right field spot should automaticaly be his heading into ST. He should be lumped in with every other corner outfielder in the Braves camp trying to earn a spot.
The Braves really should have cashed in on him when the return could have been lucrative. His Pecota projections which a few seasons ago were 50/50 now have aging horribly unless some sort of miracle transpires.
The thought of him in a high offense posistion for another 650 PA makes my head hurt.

[rudel.dietrich]

Not even one response?
Was the season that bad last year that fans have given up hope?

[pancakes]

For me, hope lies within the Braves farm system.

Heyward and Hanson are two prospects to be VERY excited about. I've heard that Heyward could possibly be the best outfield prospect in the game. And with Hanson becoming the first pitcher ever to win the AFL MVP, I'm excited.

Also, I'm glad we lost out on Burnett. He was just too expensive for a guy who is an above average, injury prone pitcher. I don't think we should try to go for it all this year, 2010 and 2011 seem like better bets to invest money into. If we can re-sign Smoltz, we'd have a rotation of Huddy-Smoltz-Jurrjens-Vazquez-Hanson.

As for Francoeur, he's GOT to go. I agree that he shouldn't be penciled in for the RF job, put some pressure on him and make him earn it.

[Afino]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

Not even one response?
Was the season that bad last year that fans have given up hope?

I didn't see this thread until now.

I don't think there's any other option to just give up on Frenchy yet though. Yes, he's maddening. Yes, he's hopeless most of the time. But just letting him go (like they did last year with sending him to AA) would hurt a lot more than it would help.

[Prodigal Son]

They don't need to give up on Francoeur because it would be selling low. It's a little too early. But he needs to go to AA or AAA and work on things there. No way he should be in the bigs while the Braves are gauging whether or not he's big-league quality. That's what the minors are for.

I don't believe that his success early in his career was a fluke. The guy has loads of athletic talent, and I believe giving up on him now is a terrible idea.

That said, I agree that he can't be penciled in to a corner OF spot and depended upon to produce anywhere near league average. I also wouldn't be surprised if he jacked 30 HR and hit .290/.335/.470 in '09 or '10 either. Maybe '08 was just one long slump? It has certainly happened to good players before (even Chipper Jones hit .248 in 2004 and then promptly became the best or 2nd best hitter in the NL over the next four seasons. Francoeur is a huge gamble compared to Chipper since Frency has never established himself as a perennial All-Star, but the point remains: sometimes players have entire seasons that are really bad, and nobody really knows why).

On the pitching front, I am also glad Burnett signed elsewhere. A guy who is slightly above league average who can't be counted on to pitch 200 IP is not worth ace pitcher money at over $15 mil per year. Smoltz looks to be back, Vasquez is extremely reliable, Jurrgens is a solid pitcher, and Glavine or a guy from the minors should step up. The Braves need one more great arm, and I have a feeling that Towers will end up sending Peavy packing to Atlanta. And Peavy, Smoltz, Vasquez, Jurrgens, and [random #5 SP] is a very good rotation. Not just light years ahead of what was in Atlanta a year ago, but a very good rotation by any standard. And if Hudson returns to overlap with Smoltz before John calls it a career, that rotation could potentially be outright dominant. That's three Cy Young winners, all of whom have pitched at that level very recently as well.

Sure, that's a best-case scenario. But the point is that I'm not giving up on this team yet. Even if Glavine never comes back to pitch effectively, even if Peavy doesn't make it to Atlanta, and even if Smoltz comes back as a reliever, the Braves could potentially put together a respectable rotation yet. We could very possible see something like Hudson, Derek Lowe, Vasquez, Jurrgens, and some up-and-comer from the minors as the Braves rotation by September, and that would be a hell of a lot better than what we say this past September.

I believe that the offense will be fine. The bullpen should be superb and perhaps the best in all of baseball. Getting to the playoffs is just a matter of getting an above-average rotation and, as always, staying healthy. With so many realistic options for getting a good rotation in place, I am tentatively optimistic. I still think there is a 60% Peavy is pitching for the Braves by August.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

(even Chipper Jones hit .248 in 2004 and then promptly became the best or 2nd best hitter in the NL over the next four seasons. Francoeur is a huge gamble compared to Chipper since Frency has never established himself as a perennial All-Star, but the point remains: sometimes players have entire seasons that are really bad, and nobody really knows why).

Jones still drew a .362 OBP that season.
BB is one statistic that has very little change from year to year.
Just another reason why it is the most important single tool of a hitter.

When Jones has a 'bad' season he can still draw 84 walks. When Jeff cannot hit for average or power he has nothing at all to fall back on.


I would rather Smoltz and Glavine not come back at all unless they signed for peanuts or a incentive laden contract.
Glavine even when healthy is not effective anymore and I believe Smoltz shoulder has suffered structural damage that rest is simply not going to heal.

Peavy is very interesting. Are the Braves even considered to be in the running?
Lowe I agree would be a fine pickup. But I have not seen who he is negotiating with or what he is asking.

I would still like to see the Braves make a strong run at either Dunn or Burrell.
With so many questions on the pitching side attempting to score even more runs is not that bad of a idea.


EDIT: After reading about Peavy I do not think we will see him in Atlanta by ST. The Padres apparently were not all that specific into what they wanted in return and the Braves front office found them difficult to negotiate with. It also apprers he does not want to waive his no trade clause unless it is to the Cubs. So why and trade for a player who does not want to play for you?

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by pancakes

For me, hope lies within the Braves farm system.

Heyward and Hanson are two prospects to be VERY excited about. I've heard that Heyward could possibly be the best outfield prospect in the game. And with Hanson becoming the first pitcher ever to win the AFL MVP, I'm excited.

Also, I'm glad we lost out on Burnett. He was just too expensive for a guy who is an above average, injury prone pitcher. I don't think we should try to go for it all this year, 2010 and 2011 seem like better bets to invest money into. If we can re-sign Smoltz, we'd have a rotation of Huddy-Smoltz-Jurrjens-Vazquez-Hanson.

As for Francoeur, he's GOT to go. I agree that he shouldn't be penciled in for the RF job, put some pressure on him and make him earn it.

BTW, welcome to the forum

[pancakes]

Thank you

I also doubt we'll see Peavy in a Braves uniform, though I'd love to see it. Also, indications are that the Braves aren't interested in Lowe. Apparently they're looking to sign Kenshin Kawakami, some 33 year old Japanese pitcher.

[Afino]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

Jones still drew a .362 OBP that season.
BB is one statistic that has very little change from year to year.
Just another reason why it is the most important single tool of a hitter.

When Jones has a 'bad' season he can still draw 84 walks. When Jeff cannot hit for average or power he has nothing at all to fall back on.


I would rather Smoltz and Glavine not come back at all unless they signed for peanuts or a incentive laden contract.
Glavine even when healthy is not effective anymore and I believe Smoltz shoulder has suffered structural damage that rest is simply not going to heal.

Peavy is very interesting. Are the Braves even considered to be in the running?
Lowe I agree would be a fine pickup. But I have not seen who he is negotiating with or what he is asking.

I would still like to see the Braves make a strong run at either Dunn or Burrell.
With so many questions on the pitching side attempting to score even more runs is not that bad of a idea.


EDIT: After reading about Peavy I do not think we will see him in Atlanta by ST. The Padres apparently were not all that specific into what they wanted in return and the Braves front office found them difficult to negotiate with. It also apprers he does not want to waive his no trade clause unless it is to the Cubs. So why and trade for a player who does not want to play for you?

I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks Burnett was going to be a disaster here if he had signed. I was actually looking for a place where fellow Braves fans actually felt that way.

I wouldn't have an issue with Dunn. But I can't STAND Burrell. It's odd because they're the same kind of player, but maybe because Pat's a Phillie

And **** Kevin Towers. He could have had a deal done with the Braves a LONG time ago. I could say **** Peavy too, but it's his right to block that deal and honestly, Peavy had a point. Without Escobar, the Braves offense is NOTHING. Might as well stay in San Diego.

This is a perfect example why Schuerholz never gave out no-trade clauses....

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Afino

I wouldn't have an issue with Dunn. But I can't STAND Burrell. It's odd because they're the same kind of player, but maybe because Pat's a Phillie

They are the same player but Dunn just does his job quite a bit better than Burrell and is 3 years younger.
I would love to see Dunn in a Atlanta uniform.

[Prodigal Son]

Dunn isn't a premier player, but he's a hell of a lot better than Jeff Francoeur and Gregor Blanco.

[mikev]

He's the only non-premier player in baseball that has a .385 OBP and hits 40 homers a year.

[Prodigal Son]

That's not bad for a DH who hits .235 in one of the best hitters' parks in baseball.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

Dunn isn't a premier player, but he's a hell of a lot better than Jeff Francoeur and Gregor Blanco.

Perhaps not premier but he is also one of the most undervalued players in baseball due to the love affair with batting average.
The Braves offense was good last season but desperatly needs a power bat. Dunn provides that AND gets on base. If you have a runner on second and need a single to drive him in he will probably make you curse at the TV pretty often. But of course he would also turn a inning into a big inning with a three run homerun.
I also think he would benefit from playing in Atlanta where the fans and coaching staff are more passive and will let him hit the way he likes to hit.
Who knows maybe it would actualy lead him to being a better hitter.

[mikev]

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

That's not bad for a DH who hits .235 in one of the best hitters' parks in baseball.

Batting average?

Eh. Forget it.

[Sheets]

yeah, we've been sitting back at Braves-Nation wondering when this team might get up and act like they don't want to finish last in the NL East.

[mikev]

Well, the current rumor is that Furcal wants to come back to Atlanta. We've been discussing it constantly on Athletics Nation, since Furcal was option #1 for Oakland.

I'm hoping that if Furcal does go to Atlanta, the Peavy trade talks get going again with Oakland involved and getting Yunel Escobar from Atlanta.

[Prodigal Son]

Fox is reporting that Furcal will accept Atlanta's offer.

[PotatoPeeler]

If they end up trading Escobar in a deal that doesn't involve Peavy, a lot of Braves fans will be pissed... and rightly so.

[mikev]

Fingers crossed for an Oakland/Atlanta/San Diego trade.