Online League commish

TomasNL · 11-26-2008, 03:14 PM

I was just wondering: If you are a commish in a online league, can you cheat? Do they have the option to, for example, edit player's ratings, like i have when i play a normal game in commish mode?

Not that i suspect anyone, but i was just wondering, like i said...

mikev · 11-26-2008, 03:17 PM

Yeah, it's possible.

Though, there's a whole heap of other guys that are also paying attention to the league, so something like that would almost assuredly be seen.

Plus, I mean, why bother playing if you're going to cheat?

satchel · 11-26-2008, 05:16 PM

It's not only possible for a Commissioner to cheat, it's easy for him to do so. Getting away with it is the hard part. It's very difficult to cover up, because there are so many files and reports that the game generates, covering up all the evidence is extremely difficult. Files' time stamps and other clues make it obvious if things have been tampered with or manipulated. Clever, observant owners will catch it every time.

Raderick · 11-27-2008, 11:34 PM

Search "mfitterer" on these boards. Need I say more?

Isura · 11-28-2008, 07:10 AM

Takes a special kind of douchebag to cheat in a baseball simulation league.

f.montoya · 11-28-2008, 08:19 AM

Very possible to cheat. There have been several cases hurled onto these boards over the years too. As a commissioner of a league that is now 4 years old and has completed nearly 28 seasons, I'm just not understanding the incentives to cheat. I suppose if money were involved or if something really serious depended on your team winning the World Series in a simulation league, maybe but overall I have to say that 95-99% of commissioners would never even think of cheating. Here are reasons why they wouldn't...

1. Commissioners usually pay good money for webhosting. This at leasts shows they want to have a successful league and some, as myself, will go on to think of their online league as like their own child and you just don't violate something like this.

2. Commissioners put in a lot of TLC into their leagues, be it with the website, the sims and updates or even just the communication they have with their league members. Some spend more time taking care of their league than they do their own team, if they run one(some leagues are run by commissioners who don't run a team).

3. Situations where the commissioner wins championships a little too often will sound an alarm within the league. Not that a commissioner would deliberately throw seasons but letting the natural balances of power do their thing is obviously the best way to go if the league is going to last and be successful.

4. Cheating defeats the whole purpose of an online league, doesn't it? I mean, the whole reason to be a part of an online league is to match your decision making and team building skills against other humans. A way to measure that is by the success of the product to create, which is your team. If you cheat, you can no longer accurately measure your moves, choices, insight, savvy, luck, and what have you, against the other humans you are competing with. You've essentially reduced those other humans to playing the part of the A.I. as you edit your way to championships...while paying for webhosting at the same time.

5. Solo leagues. You can play God with solo leagues. Everything is available to you. I have to admit, I have a lot of fun doing this. I have a league that I actually find players like Mick Kelleher, Mario Mendoza, Bob Uecker, and the like, and I edit them like crazy. Yeah, I love seeing these career .200 hitters have dominating careers. I even put them on my team and beat up on the rest of the league. Heck, I'll even take advantage of the A.I. in trades. Plenty of cheating. The fact that those things are already being done and worn out is the whole point of being part of an online league. Most commissioners who start an online league want a place to where they can have, see and be a part of competition that is set on equal rules and boundaries. Cheat and you are essentially wasting your own time(and money).

6. I actually open a bottle of champagne when/if I win a World Series. I've only won 3 in 28 seasons(4 years time). Would it taste as good if I cheat?

I host a lot of leagues. I have had more than 150 leagues on my servers over the last 4+ years. I've seen many a league fold but thankfully none were due to a cheating commissioner. (Yes, I browse their forums before the close down and document why they aren't successful).

I decided to post in your thread mostly because of the faith I have in all the commissioners out there who run great leagues. I love OOTP as do they. There will be bad apples from time to time but as mentioned by the above posters, they are often quickly found out and their leagues don't last long.

That said, maybe next version could have some additions that can lock certain parts of the game, even to commissioners, for online leagues. Although this can't completely stop a cheat bent on cheating, it is a subject that can be explored.

Corsairs · 11-28-2008, 08:57 AM

f.montoya is absolutely right when he says you get to thinking of your online league as if it's your own child. I couldn't bear to cheat in my league; it would ruin everything I've worked so hard to build. Of course I want to win, but not like that.

And I'll add an extra incentive to stay honest: over time you begin to develop bonds with your owners. These people start to become your friends (at least as much as is possible for people you've never met in person). Now cheating isn't just ruining all your hard work; it's exploiting people you care about. Winning isn't worth that to me, and I'm pretty sure each and every online league commissioner would say the same.

frankduffy · 12-07-2008, 08:50 PM

As for Commissioners doing really well...

They tend to know every player in the league through editing rookies or processing moves. It's a level of detail that can make a difference between getting the right backup shortstop or being left totally dry when your starter goes down for six weeks.

On last advantage they have is they never miss an export, draft, trade, free agent, etc deadline. So, there's none of those, "Crap, I forgot to send in the roster move to bring my 5 star pitcher off the DL just before the three agem series with my rival" moments.

satchel · 12-08-2008, 12:01 AM

Echoing Frank Duffy's comments: it's not unusual for Commissioners' teams to play well, for the precise reasons he named: the Commish knows the entire league better than anyone else (although there are exceptions; some super-dedicated owners can match a Commish's knowledge of the league), and the Commish will never miss any logistical requirement, such as having his team prepared for every sim, etc. So Commissioners, even when playing completely fairly and honestly, do have an advantage over almost all of the other owners.

eMLBCommish · 12-08-2008, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satchel

Echoing Frank Duffy's comments: it's not unusual for Commissioners' teams to play well, for the precise reasons he named: the Commish knows the entire league better than anyone else (although there are exceptions; some super-dedicated owners can match a Commish's knowledge of the league), and the Commish will never miss any logistical requirement, such as having his team prepared for every sim, etc. So Commissioners, even when playing completely fairly and honestly, do have an advantage over almost all of the other owners.

I agree here. My team has always been fairly competitive, and is currently enjoying a two-time defending Champions situation in my league. FYI, it's my 3rd title in 16 completed seasons, and mostly thanks to trading for a #2 pitcher that has done well at Fenway, but was at the expense of going from a Top 5 farm system to 17th in the league. One of the guys I gave up was Fausto Carmona, who had early potential of being a Cy Young candidate in the NL. The scary stat for him: Only 4 HR allowed in 160 IP, and he pitches at Coors Field!

I have been concerned about my more recent success, and expressed that, but been assured by most of my longtime league owners who have been in my league since 2000 that if they thought I was cheating, they would have left long ago.

Still, for any Commish who probably risks spending more time on his league than he does with his wife, it's something that concerns you, but is generally just due to the fact you have your finger on the pulse of your league better than most others....with the exception of Toronto and San Francisco, who combine for 11 of the 16 World Titles thus far.

11-26-2008, 03:14 PM	#1
TomasNL Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Netherlands Posts: 91	Online League commish I was just wondering: If you are a commish in a online league, can you cheat? Do they have the option to, for example, edit player's ratings, like i have when i play a normal game in commish mode? Not that i suspect anyone, but i was just wondering, like i said...

11-26-2008, 05:16 PM	#3
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith Ark. USA Posts: 2,681	It's not only possible for a Commissioner to cheat, it's easy for him to do so. Getting away with it is the hard part. It's very difficult to cover up, because there are so many files and reports that the game generates, covering up all the evidence is extremely difficult. Files' time stamps and other clues make it obvious if things have been tampered with or manipulated. Clever, observant owners will catch it every time. __________________ JL Commish NPBL Rhode Island Reds ’33 ’34 ’35 TCBA San Francisco Railbornes ’74 ’76 ’77 ’78 FL New Orleans Black Sox ’56 ’57 ’58 ’59

11-27-2008, 11:34 PM	#4
Raderick Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 2,737	Search "mfitterer" on these boards. Need I say more? __________________

11-28-2008, 08:19 AM	#6
f.montoya Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,077	Very possible to cheat. There have been several cases hurled onto these boards over the years too. As a commissioner of a league that is now 4 years old and has completed nearly 28 seasons, I'm just not understanding the incentives to cheat. I suppose if money were involved or if something really serious depended on your team winning the World Series in a simulation league, maybe but overall I have to say that 95-99% of commissioners would never even think of cheating. Here are reasons why they wouldn't... 1. Commissioners usually pay good money for webhosting. This at leasts shows they want to have a successful league and some, as myself, will go on to think of their online league as like their own child and you just don't violate something like this. 2. Commissioners put in a lot of TLC into their leagues, be it with the website, the sims and updates or even just the communication they have with their league members. Some spend more time taking care of their league than they do their own team, if they run one(some leagues are run by commissioners who don't run a team). 3. Situations where the commissioner wins championships a little too often will sound an alarm within the league. Not that a commissioner would deliberately throw seasons but letting the natural balances of power do their thing is obviously the best way to go if the league is going to last and be successful. 4. Cheating defeats the whole purpose of an online league, doesn't it? I mean, the whole reason to be a part of an online league is to match your decision making and team building skills against other humans. A way to measure that is by the success of the product to create, which is your team. If you cheat, you can no longer accurately measure your moves, choices, insight, savvy, luck, and what have you, against the other humans you are competing with. You've essentially reduced those other humans to playing the part of the A.I. as you edit your way to championships...while paying for webhosting at the same time. 5. Solo leagues. You can play God with solo leagues. Everything is available to you. I have to admit, I have a lot of fun doing this. I have a league that I actually find players like Mick Kelleher, Mario Mendoza, Bob Uecker, and the like, and I edit them like crazy. Yeah, I love seeing these career .200 hitters have dominating careers. I even put them on my team and beat up on the rest of the league. Heck, I'll even take advantage of the A.I. in trades. Plenty of cheating. The fact that those things are already being done and worn out is the whole point of being part of an online league. Most commissioners who start an online league want a place to where they can have, see and be a part of competition that is set on equal rules and boundaries. Cheat and you are essentially wasting your own time(and money). 6. I actually open a bottle of champagne when/if I win a World Series. I've only won 3 in 28 seasons(4 years time). Would it taste as good if I cheat? I host a lot of leagues. I have had more than 150 leagues on my servers over the last 4+ years. I've seen many a league fold but thankfully none were due to a cheating commissioner. (Yes, I browse their forums before the close down and document why they aren't successful). I decided to post in your thread mostly because of the faith I have in all the commissioners out there who run great leagues. I love OOTP as do they. There will be bad apples from time to time but as mentioned by the above posters, they are often quickly found out and their leagues don't last long. That said, maybe next version could have some additions that can lock certain parts of the game, even to commissioners, for online leagues. Although this can't completely stop a cheat bent on cheating, it is a subject that can be explored. __________________ Fidel Montoya Asahi2 Baseball League ex-Commissioner(Historical League Since 2004) Ex-Web Host Current Mod Maker?? Last edited by f.montoya; 11-28-2008 at 08:21 AM.

11-28-2008, 08:57 AM	#7
Corsairs Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,360	f.montoya is absolutely right when he says you get to thinking of your online league as if it's your own child. I couldn't bear to cheat in my league; it would ruin everything I've worked so hard to build. Of course I want to win, but not like that. And I'll add an extra incentive to stay honest: over time you begin to develop bonds with your owners. These people start to become your friends (at least as much as is possible for people you've never met in person). Now cheating isn't just ruining all your hard work; it's exploiting people you care about. Winning isn't worth that to me, and I'm pretty sure each and every online league commissioner would say the same. __________________ Founder of the Planetary Extreme Baseball Alliance (PEBA) Premiere OOTP fictional league where creativity counts and imagination is your only limitation Check for openings - contact us today! Join the PEBA

11-26-2008, 03:17 PM	#2
mikev Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 4,014	Yeah, it's possible. Though, there's a whole heap of other guys that are also paying attention to the league, so something like that would almost assuredly be seen. Plus, I mean, why bother playing if you're going to cheat? __________________ Global Unified Baseball Association - Vice Commish and Oakland Oaks GM

11-28-2008, 07:10 AM	#5
Isura Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 361	Takes a special kind of douchebag to cheat in a baseball simulation league.

12-07-2008, 08:50 PM	#8
frankduffy Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 47	As for Commissioners doing really well... They tend to know every player in the league through editing rookies or processing moves. It's a level of detail that can make a difference between getting the right backup shortstop or being left totally dry when your starter goes down for six weeks. On last advantage they have is they never miss an export, draft, trade, free agent, etc deadline. So, there's none of those, "Crap, I forgot to send in the roster move to bring my 5 star pitcher off the DL just before the three agem series with my rival" moments.

12-08-2008, 12:01 AM	#9
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith Ark. USA Posts: 2,681	Echoing Frank Duffy's comments: it's not unusual for Commissioners' teams to play well, for the precise reasons he named: the Commish knows the entire league better than anyone else (although there are exceptions; some super-dedicated owners can match a Commish's knowledge of the league), and the Commish will never miss any logistical requirement, such as having his team prepared for every sim, etc. So Commissioners, even when playing completely fairly and honestly, do have an advantage over almost all of the other owners.