I found a minor league DL workaround...

[benallen002]

...and I want to know the down side to doing it this way; as I don't know the ins and outs of transactions.

I noticed that if I designate a minor leaguer for assignment I then have the option of putting him on the disabled list. Now, if i use the 60-day, then he doesn't go against my 40-man roster. If I use the 15-day, he does. So, here are my questions.

1. There seems to be no harm then (harm being he uses up an option year or something) if I get a AA guy who goes down with a SEI. I just designate him for assignment and then put him on the 60-day DL and when he is ready to come back, I just put him right back on the AA team's roster. Is that correct?

2. Is there an option somewhere where I can change the fact that the 15-day DL keeps/puts guys on the 40-man roster automatically, or is that hard coded?

3. This seems to be a pretty good workaround. Has no one ever thought about this, or is it too good to be true?

[Elendil]

1. Yes
2. Hard-coded
3. Don't know if it's widely known, but that's the way I've always done it. IMO there should be an option to put minor leaguers directly on the 60 day DL, so that you can take them off the 40-man without the DFA hassle (which hurts their morale).

[benallen002]

cool, then this seems like a decent workaround.

since i play with morale off, i can just DFA guys that are injured for a week or two and if they are really hurt, but i don't feel like releasing them, they go on the 60-day DL.

seriously though, this is almost a perfect workaround (if you have morale off, I guess). in all my complaining about not having a minor league DL, i can't believe this was never mentioned before. oh well. thanks.

[satchel]

This is a great workaround, maybe it was already obvious to some people, but thanks for pointing it out.

[RchW]

Yes, I used it for a while. The problem is that injured prospects get ML service time. If you have a good prospect who gets a couple of long injuries it can get him into arb very quickly. They can also run out of options.

I increased minor league rosters to 30 to reduce the need for using the DL.

Bottom line there should be a minor league DL or inactive list, or a way to have the AI ignore injured players and properly manage the roster.

[Elendil]

Originally Posted by RchW

Yes, I used it for a while. The problem is that injured prospects get ML service time. If you have a good prospect who gets a couple of long injuries it can get him into arb very quickly. They can also run out of options.

That's true, and you have to pay them a league minimum salary. Still think it's usually worth it for that precious 40-man roster slot, and better roster management (having the AI put two injured guys in the rotation is particularly annoying).

[benallen002]

Originally Posted by RchW

Yes, I used it for a while. The problem is that injured prospects get ML service time. If you have a good prospect who gets a couple of long injuries it can get him into arb very quickly. They can also run out of options.

I increased minor league rosters to 30 to reduce the need for using the DL.

Bottom line there should be a minor league DL or inactive list, or a way to have the AI ignore injured players and properly manage the roster.

oh..see that is what i was trying to ask in the OP. i didn't know enough about it to know that being on the DL meant accruing ML service time. so it really isn't as good of a solution as i thought.

PUT A ******** MINOR LEAGUE DL IN THE ********* GAME!!!!!!!!

[conception]

I learned that option on here a long time ago, but it never hurts to let those who aren't aware know about it.

[satchel]

Since I play without financials, there is only one negative to this method, and it's the morale hit that the players take, from getting designated.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by benallen002

PUT A ******** MINOR LEAGUE DL IN THE ********* GAME!!!!!!!!

Apparently it's too hard to code.

[benallen002]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Apparently it's too hard to code.

Which I am calling out Markus right now and telling everyone that this is a BS excuse.

What he means to say is that the way he designed the game makes this feature HARDER for him to code, and he doesn't feel like taking the time to do it. Fine, it's your (his) game; make it however you want.

But I design, code, and debug programs that get used by many users (as well as the databases that provide the data) and I know that, within reason, there is no such thing as "too hard to code". There is just "I don't have the time to figure out how to code" and "my original design was so flawed that now I can't change my code without major headaches". And given the professional nature of this particular program, I'm going to say that in this instance, it is the latter.

BTW, I'm not trying to act like an a-hole. I just know that the excuse being used for not adding this (perfectly reasonable) feature request is bogus and I wish for a little more honest communication; because I would do anything I could to help in the implemenation if it was shared what the exact problem was.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by benallen002

There is just "I don't have the time to figure out how to code" and "my original design was so flawed that now I can't change my code without major headaches".

Well yeah. I know this from my own programming experiences.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Apparently it's too hard to code.

Originally Posted by benallen002

Which I am calling out Markus right now and telling everyone that this is a BS excuse.

You're overlooking something: the difficulty may have more to do with how minor leagues are treated by the game. Minor leagues are mere appendages of the major league, and I suspect that's the root issue. Minor leagues are more fully-fleshed than they were back in OOTP6's day, but they are still quite short of being fully fledged leagues.

I propose the best solution of all: make ALL leagues fully fledged, individual leagues.

Do away with this artificial major-minor relationship the game currently uses, and the restrictions that come along with it. ALL leagues should become fully individual, unique entities, with their own rules, options, and league totals. Following this approach neatly sidesteps the DL issue in the current (appendage) minor league approach, since all top-level leagues in OOTP can have their own DL and other settings. It also allows for much better historical fidelity and fictional flexibility.

There are some issues that would need to be carefully considered, such as the way all these individual leagues interact. But these are not insurmountable, and the benefits of the approach make it worthwhile. As it stands now, OOTP allows a rudimentary form of this: top level leagues in the game can interact, just in a very limited way (e.g. free agents moving between leagues). Increase the scope of how leagues can interact, use associations to group leagues together for streamlining of such interaction, and OOTP takes a huge leap forward in how it handles leagues.

As I see it, there's little reason to implement a stop-gap solution like finding a way to get current (appendage) minor leagues a DL in the game. It's better to fix the underlying structural issue, and that's the way the game treats minor leagues. Correct that, and OOTP stands on a much firmer foundation.

[phillosopherp]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

You're overlooking something: the difficulty may have more to do with how minor leagues are treated by the game. Minor leagues are mere appendages of the major league, and I suspect that's the root issue. Minor leagues are more fully-fleshed than they were back in OOTP6's day, but they are still quite short of being fully fledged leagues.

I propose the best solution of all: make ALL leagues fully fledged, individual leagues.

Do away with this artificial major-minor relationship the game currently uses, and the restrictions that come along with it. ALL leagues should become fully individual, unique entities, with their own rules, options, and league totals. Following this approach neatly sidesteps the DL issue in the current (appendage) minor league approach, since all top-level leagues in OOTP can have their own DL and other settings. It also allows for much better historical fidelity and fictional flexibility.

There are some issues that would need to be carefully considered, such as the way all these individual leagues interact. But these are not insurmountable, and the benefits of the approach make it worthwhile. As it stands now, OOTP allows a rudimentary form of this: top level leagues in the game can interact, just in a very limited way (e.g. free agents moving between leagues). Increase the scope of how leagues can interact, use associations to group leagues together for streamlining of such interaction, and OOTP takes a huge leap forward in how it handles leagues.

As I see it, there's little reason to implement a stop-gap solution like finding a way to get current (appendage) minor leagues a DL in the game. It's better to fix the underlying structural issue, and that's the way the game treats minor leagues. Correct that, and OOTP stands on a much firmer foundation.

This is something I think as well. If Markus was to do this, and make the relationship with the minors more like RL the game would be incredible. The purchase of contracts, the funding of minor league teams through affiliation agreements, also the selling of affiliations within the majors, would all be a huge benefit for the game.

It would also allow for the earlier years of baseball's minors to be mirror in a more realistic and life like manner. The teams that spent the money would be more competitive. Like the Cardinals in the 20's and 30's or the Yankees in the 50's and 60's. I would love it if something like this would be the way that Markus goes for 10. Hell take more then a year to do it even, I would pay premium dollars for a real life sim, as would most of us I think.

Anyway here is to hoping right.

[benallen002]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

As I see it, there's little reason to implement a stop-gap solution like finding a way to get current (appendage) minor leagues a DL in the game. It's better to fix the underlying structural issue, and that's the way the game treats minor leagues. Correct that, and OOTP stands on a much
firmer foundation.

Well, sure I'd be in favor of a complete overhaul of the way leagues are structured. I'd also be in favor of him using a real fully-normalized database structure instead of a bunch of .DAT files. But what makes you think he will fix the mountain before fixing the mole hill?

Seriously, the guy makes the best game out there. He knows that, right now, what little competition he does have is weak, so there isn't a big push to change things. I can also empathize with the fact that it is a one or two man show.

So basically what you have is a product whose underlying structure was outdated 5 years ago, a team of two doing everything from design to coding, and only (relatively speaking) a small amount of customers who really give a damn if anything changes or not.

I simply will have to take what is given until something better comes along.

[satchel]

Originally Posted by phillosopherp

...I would pay premium dollars for a real life sim, as would most of us I think.

The price of the game has a lot to do with its sales, and is very important. A small percentage of people, like you and me, would pay nearly anything for the game, but to a majority of people, money is worth more than life itself. They'd rather go without the game for a whole year than spend what they make in about three hours of work.

Never underestimate the miserly penny-pinching ways of the public. I could burn a ten-dollar bill and not really care, but some people would rather lose a finger than a buck.

[satchel]

I've not only bought every edition of the game since v4, I've bought many copies for other community members as well. And some p*ssies here cry about not wanting to spend the money.

[satchel]

(Wasn't trying to hijack the thread. Just a pet peeve of mine.)

[benallen002]

that was "kind of" what my last point was satchel. this game is "managed" by someone who does it to put food on his table. and so that idea must be paramount in any decision making, right? i get that. but what that does is hinder progress to a certain degree.

the only way to make the "perfect" game is to get a group of people with an unlimited budget who don't really care about making a profit, who now how to make it happen (i.e. code the damn thing) and are absolutely dedicated to the cause.

i have only seen this combination together once in all my years of gaming, and that is with iRacing (who, oddly enough, got it's financial backing from the owner of the Red Sox).

seriously though, we will never see a truly great baseball simulation while the only groups of people who are building them are "just trying to make as much money as possbile" corporations and "just trying to make a living" independents. it is just not possible.

oh well, i still want a frickin' minor league DL.

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by satchel

(Wasn't trying to hijack the thread. Just a pet peeve of mine.)

I'm not trying to hijack it either, but this also annoys me.

Originally Posted by satchel

The price of the game has a lot to do with its sales, and is very important. A small percentage of people, like you and me, would pay nearly anything for the game, but to a majority of people, money is worth more than life itself. They'd rather go without the game for a whole year than spend what they make in about three hours of work.

Never underestimate the miserly penny-pinching ways of the public. I could burn a ten-dollar bill and not really care, but some people would rather lose a finger than a buck.

For me that would be about a day's pay, and I work roughly three days a week, seven months of the year (seasonal part time employment).

Originally Posted by satchel

I've not only bought every edition of the game since v4, I've bought many copies for other community members as well. And some p*ssies here cry about not wanting to spend the money.

A community member (not you) bought me a 2007 copy of the game. I've paid for 2006 and Version 9 myself when they came out 'late', and if Version 10 is released in May or later I'll almost certainly pre-order again. If it comes out any earlier I'll have to wait for one of the midseason discount periods, and maybe by that time I'll have other things to spend the money on.

OotPB is very reasonably priced, and I have no complaints about the pricing policy. I do have complaints about posters who toss around terms like 'pussies not wanting to spend the money' and 'miserly penny-pinching'. Sometimes even reasonably priced games are too expensive.