Depth chart vs. line-up

Thunder · 09-07-2008, 02:16 PM

Shouldn't a guy be automatically placed at the No. 1 depth chart position if you put him in the batting order and also in the batting order if you put him at No. 1 in the depth chart? Or is there something I'm not getting?

I had a catcher who was exhausted, 0% and put him at No. 2 in the depth chart in every line-up behind a guy who was 100% fresh . . and he kept playing; was driving me nuts. Then I saw I had left the tired guy in the line-up. I suspect I've broken down a few guys because of this.

bigMatt · 09-07-2008, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder

Shouldn't a guy be automatically placed at the No. 1 depth chart position if you put him in the batting order and also in the batting order if you put him at No. 1 in the depth chart? Or is there something I'm not getting?

I had a catcher who was exhausted, 0% and put him at No. 2 in the depth chart in every line-up behind a guy who was 100% fresh . . and he kept playing; was driving me nuts. Then I saw I had left the tired guy in the line-up. I suspect I've broken down a few guys because of this.

Yeah, I did this a bunch until I figured out that the lineup trumps everything, and that I had to actually adjust both to get the desired results.

Thunder · 09-07-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigMatt

Yeah, I did this a bunch until I figured out that the lineup trumps everything, and that I had to actually adjust both to get the desired results.

Now that I think about it, I'm more lost than ever.

If the back-up is set to "if starter tired" then shouldn't the No. 2 play when the no. 1 is tired, regardless of the line-up? What's the point of the depth charts then?

bigMatt · 09-07-2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder

Now that I think about it, I'm more lost than ever.

If the back-up is set to "if starter tired" then shouldn't the No. 2 play when the no. 1 is tired, regardless of the line-up? What's the point of the depth charts then?

And maybe I miss your point - part of the danger of the newbie leading the newbie...

I set all my depth charts first, then drag the guys from my #1 list to my lineup. I do this for each lineup set. I make sure that the backups are set to either come in every X game, or when starter is tired. I typically have a backup and a third option as well if available.

If I swap a starter with a backup but forget to change my starting lineup, nothing changes. In fact, I start having problems with my erstwhile starter getting tired. Seems I've confused HAL by doing this. Once I fix that, I don't have the problem you describe.

Does this at all help, or am I simply misunderstanding your conundrum?

Thunder · 09-07-2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigMatt

Does this at all help, or am I simply misunderstanding your conundrum?

Ummm, both??

Or maybe I'm not understanding you . . . or how line-ups work . . . or how depth charts work

the depth charts seem pretty useless to me

Vinny P. · 09-07-2008, 07:53 PM

The way it works is this:

on the last tab above the depth charts page, where it says Vs. LHP, Vs RHP...etc....Go to the last tab that says "Seven Day Lineup." All options in above right, set to "no."

Now, if your playing out all of your games, you want these options to be "no." Also, if you have a back-up catcher, make sure it says "if starter tired" in the sub section. Make it say "if starter tired" for vs LH, vs RHP, vs LHP+DH, vs RHP+DH.

Back on the seven day lineups: Before you play out a game, make sure you hit "Paste LU vs (whatever)" under the date that you are about to play.

Of course, if you like to set your own LU, I highly suggest you do so yourself. The only use for the Depth Chart, in this case, is for organizational purposes.

Instead of going through the entire list of players, trying to fit them in the lineup without using the depth chart, can get a bit confusing. If you sort the players by position...first the Catchers, then you have only two players to look at (on most teams). So now you can decide which player you want to be the starter. Do the same thing for 1B, 2B etc...

Drop the starter in the depth chart everytime you choose whichever player you want to be your main starter. By the time you do this, everything else should be blank, except the "depth starter" spots. Once you do this, you should then choose your secondary...bench...players, and set the conditions for them to start any given game. Then do the same for any tertiary players.

Once the Depth Chart is set, makes it much easier to set your lineup, because now you have all players' names filtered in green. So for the number one spot, if you want your speediest guy, with high OBP, just simply click OBP, look at which green player is the number one in OBP, then sort by clicking Speed, and see which player is the fastest. You may narrow it down to 2 different players out of the 8 (or 9) players in green

Do the same thing for whatever categories you want to use for each position in the lineup.

If someone gets tired, you can either let the AI handle the subsitution, if you have "start if tired" option used, or you can simply do it yourself. Either way, you still should "paste LU vs. (whatever)" in your seven-day lineup every single day.

Not sure how most simmers handle it, whether they just sim every 7 days, and just set-up the seven-day lineups at the beginning of every week, or just put "YES for starting subs" option and sim for longer periods of time.

If you do not understand my post, then please kindly state something more specific that can be answered in an easier/clearer manner.

Thunder · 09-07-2008, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nihilianth

Of course, if you like to set your own LU, I highly suggest you do so yourself. The only use for the Depth Chart, in this case, is for organizational purposes.

. . .

Not sure how most simmers handle it, whether they just sim every 7 days, and just set-up the seven-day lineups at the beginning of every week, or just put "YES for starting subs" option and sim for longer periods of time.

Thank you for taking the time, I really appreciate it.

I guess I figured I could just set up my four default line-ups and if the second-stinger had "start if tired" he would start if the starter was tired (seemed to make sense to me) and let a month rip off at once and no one would play when they were tired.

But I'm sensing it's not quite that easy.

bigMatt · 09-07-2008, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder

Thank you for taking the time, I really appreciate it.

I guess I figured I could just set up my four default line-ups and if the second-stinger had "start if tired" he would start if the starter was tired (seemed to make sense to me) and let a month rip off at once and no one would play when they were tired.

But I'm sensing it's not quite that easy.

Geez, that's what I do, and have done for a dozen seasons or more. Seems to work as long as I pay attention to any changes I make.

SteveP · 09-07-2008, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder

I guess I figured I could just set up my four default line-ups and if the second-stinger had "start if tired" he would start if the starter was tired (seemed to make sense to me) and let a month rip off at once and no one would play when they were tired.

But I'm sensing it's not quite that easy.

I've learned the hard way that the depth charts and the lineups are entirely separate. I believe that is intentional, so that players can vary their lineups from day to day, without having to mess around with the depth charts each time. The depth charts are used by the AI to guide it when making substitutions at the beginning of a game, or during a game.

When you have the depth chart starter in the lineup and the 1st backup is set to come in when the starter is tired, the backup will start the game when the regular starter is at anything less than 100% rested (even 99%). I don't think this makes a lot of sense, but that's the way it works.

If you have been putting the backup in the lineup, then the only way to get a substitution when he is tired, is to have a second backup in the depth chart who is set to come in when the starter (meaning in this case the first backup) is tired. Without that, your guy would play to exhaustion.

The other thing that happens when your starter gets less than 100% rested, and the first backup is placed in the lineup as a substitute, is that the AI may re-juggle your lineup based on how it evaluates the capabilities of your backup in relation to the rest of the lineup. That can result in some lineups that IMO are questionable, but it doesn't appear to be avoidable.

Vinny P. · 09-08-2008, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder

Thank you for taking the time, I really appreciate it.

I guess I figured I could just set up my four default line-ups and if the second-stinger had "start if tired" he would start if the starter was tired (seemed to make sense to me) and let a month rip off at once and no one would play when they were tired.

But I'm sensing it's not quite that easy.

Ah, so you're a simmer! That makes it a bit easier to diagnose why your having that problem. Under "7 day lineup" put "YES, use starting subs" next to "Allow Use of Depth Chart."

Hope that helps!

Thunder · 09-08-2008, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nihilianth

Ah, so you're a simmer! That makes it a bit easier to diagnose why your having that problem. Under "7 day lineup" put "YES, use starting subs" next to "Allow Use of Depth Chart."

Hope that helps!

I have seen the light!!!!
danka, graci and all that in a big way baby, thank you

EDIT: Nothing like scrolling through the minor league system and NOT seeing three broken guys on every team!

Vinny P. · 09-09-2008, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder

I have seen the light!!!!
danka, graci and all that in a big way baby, thank you

EDIT: Nothing like scrolling through the minor league system and NOT seeing three broken guys on every team!

yep, n/p Thunder! Hopefully that will keep the injuries down! LOL

Thunder · 09-09-2008, 10:26 AM

Similar question . . .
There is no pitching equivalent of the Seven-Day Lineup feature, eh?
I'm just trying to figure out a better way to control usage (short of playing out every game at every level)

At AAA, I had a pitcher go 62 and 52 pitches on consecutive days even though all five other relievers were a better choice to pitch on the second day.

If it matters, my pitching depth chart has 5 SP, 3 MR, 2 Setup, 1 CL
This guy was at No, 2 SU . . the No. 1 SU, MR-1 and CL hadn't pitched the day before, MR-2 had only three pitches and MR-3 went 50 (but was still "fresher" than the guy the AI used).

Is this just a fact of Sim-life?

Vinny P. · 09-09-2008, 10:59 AM

I'll get to answering this question later today, or tonight. Right now, I am in class, and have work tomorrow

Thunder · 09-09-2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nihilianth

I'll get to answering this question later today, or tonight. Right now, I am in class, and have work tomorrow

no sweat, thanks for checking in

Vinny P. · 09-10-2008, 11:08 PM

Sorry bout taking longer than I thought I would in answering this question. RL issues came up, but here it is now!

I think it has to do with the exhaustion level. The guy who pitched twice in a row probably had an endurance rating of 8 or 9 out of ten, while your other pitchers only have maybe 4 or 5.

In that case, if your other pitchers have pitched 20 or 30 pitches within the last 4 days, then the AI SHOULD use the guy with the highest rest %, even if he had pitched the day before. (Although 114 pitches in 2 days seems like an extreme amount of pitches...there is almost no call for that kind of work load for any pitcher out of the bull pen....)

bjkat81 · 10-17-2008, 10:18 AM

The other thing that happens when your starter gets less than 100% rested, and the first backup is placed in the lineup as a substitute, is that the AI may re-juggle your lineup based on how it evaluates the capabilities of your backup in relation to the rest of the lineup. That can result in some lineups that IMO are questionable, but it doesn't appear to be avoidable.[/QUOTE]

I've noticed this too, and it's kind of a problem when you have a scrub batting third or something because of the subbing. Is this really unavoidable? I've taken a liking to using a 7-day lineup and simming for a week at a time. I imagine I could anticipate when players would be tired and manually set each lineup and subs for each day, but that would defeat the purpose of the depth chart, etc. I'd really like it if a player, when filling in, would just take the batting spot of the player he's subbing for, and not readjust the lineup at all. Is this possible?

09-09-2008, 10:26 AM	#13
Thunder Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 3,865	Similar question . . . There is no pitching equivalent of the Seven-Day Lineup feature, eh? I'm just trying to figure out a better way to control usage (short of playing out every game at every level) At AAA, I had a pitcher go 62 and 52 pitches on consecutive days even though all five other relievers were a better choice to pitch on the second day. If it matters, my pitching depth chart has 5 SP, 3 MR, 2 Setup, 1 CL This guy was at No, 2 SU . . the No. 1 SU, MR-1 and CL hadn't pitched the day before, MR-2 had only three pitches and MR-3 went 50 (but was still "fresher" than the guy the AI used). Is this just a fact of Sim-life? __________________ I like Stats Mostly

09-07-2008, 02:16 PM	#1
Thunder Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 3,865	Depth chart vs. line-up Shouldn't a guy be automatically placed at the No. 1 depth chart position if you put him in the batting order and also in the batting order if you put him at No. 1 in the depth chart? Or is there something I'm not getting? I had a catcher who was exhausted, 0% and put him at No. 2 in the depth chart in every line-up behind a guy who was 100% fresh . . and he kept playing; was driving me nuts. Then I saw I had left the tired guy in the line-up. I suspect I've broken down a few guys because of this. __________________ I like Stats Mostly

09-07-2008, 07:53 PM	#6
Vinny P. Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,518 Infractions: 0/1 (4)	The way it works is this: on the last tab above the depth charts page, where it says Vs. LHP, Vs RHP...etc....Go to the last tab that says "Seven Day Lineup." All options in above right, set to "no." Now, if your playing out all of your games, you want these options to be "no." Also, if you have a back-up catcher, make sure it says "if starter tired" in the sub section. Make it say "if starter tired" for vs LH, vs RHP, vs LHP+DH, vs RHP+DH. Back on the seven day lineups: Before you play out a game, make sure you hit "Paste LU vs (whatever)" under the date that you are about to play. Of course, if you like to set your own LU, I highly suggest you do so yourself. The only use for the Depth Chart, in this case, is for organizational purposes. Instead of going through the entire list of players, trying to fit them in the lineup without using the depth chart, can get a bit confusing. If you sort the players by position...first the Catchers, then you have only two players to look at (on most teams). So now you can decide which player you want to be the starter. Do the same thing for 1B, 2B etc... Drop the starter in the depth chart everytime you choose whichever player you want to be your main starter. By the time you do this, everything else should be blank, except the "depth starter" spots. Once you do this, you should then choose your secondary...bench...players, and set the conditions for them to start any given game. Then do the same for any tertiary players. Once the Depth Chart is set, makes it much easier to set your lineup, because now you have all players' names filtered in green. So for the number one spot, if you want your speediest guy, with high OBP, just simply click OBP, look at which green player is the number one in OBP, then sort by clicking Speed, and see which player is the fastest. You may narrow it down to 2 different players out of the 8 (or 9) players in green Do the same thing for whatever categories you want to use for each position in the lineup. If someone gets tired, you can either let the AI handle the subsitution, if you have "start if tired" option used, or you can simply do it yourself. Either way, you still should "paste LU vs. (whatever)" in your seven-day lineup every single day. Not sure how most simmers handle it, whether they just sim every 7 days, and just set-up the seven-day lineups at the beginning of every week, or just put "YES for starting subs" option and sim for longer periods of time. If you do not understand my post, then please kindly state something more specific that can be answered in an easier/clearer manner.

09-09-2008, 10:59 AM	#14
Vinny P. Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,518 Infractions: 0/1 (4)	I'll get to answering this question later today, or tonight. Right now, I am in class, and have work tomorrow

09-10-2008, 11:08 PM	#16
Vinny P. Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,518 Infractions: 0/1 (4)	Sorry bout taking longer than I thought I would in answering this question. RL issues came up, but here it is now! I think it has to do with the exhaustion level. The guy who pitched twice in a row probably had an endurance rating of 8 or 9 out of ten, while your other pitchers only have maybe 4 or 5. In that case, if your other pitchers have pitched 20 or 30 pitches within the last 4 days, then the AI SHOULD use the guy with the highest rest %, even if he had pitched the day before. (Although 114 pitches in 2 days seems like an extreme amount of pitches...there is almost no call for that kind of work load for any pitcher out of the bull pen....)

10-17-2008, 10:18 AM	#17
bjkat81 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 26	The other thing that happens when your starter gets less than 100% rested, and the first backup is placed in the lineup as a substitute, is that the AI may re-juggle your lineup based on how it evaluates the capabilities of your backup in relation to the rest of the lineup. That can result in some lineups that IMO are questionable, but it doesn't appear to be avoidable.[/QUOTE] I've noticed this too, and it's kind of a problem when you have a scrub batting third or something because of the subbing. Is this really unavoidable? I've taken a liking to using a 7-day lineup and simming for a week at a time. I imagine I could anticipate when players would be tired and manually set each lineup and subs for each day, but that would defeat the purpose of the depth chart, etc. I'd really like it if a player, when filling in, would just take the batting spot of the player he's subbing for, and not readjust the lineup at all. Is this possible?