Women in pro sports?

birddogg · 09-03-2008, 10:43 PM

Obviously leagues like wnba etc diminish or eliminate chances of a woman in the NBA.

But what about sports like baseball or hockey does anyone think we will see an woman in a mainstream pro sport in our lifetime? I will like to open this discussion in terms of what are the rules of things like this ? Are they even given a chance?

I read things like "In 1952 Major League Baseball Commissioner Ford Frick sent notice that women are not to play on major league teams, stating his 'purpose was to prevent teams from using women players as a publicity stunt"

Are rules like this still there even after all these years what about minor leagues? .I certainly think they deserve a chance to play pro sports with the men if there good enough.

Kekkonen · 09-04-2008, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birddogg

I certainly think they deserve a chance to play pro sports with the men if there good enough.

Sure. But it will be very hard to find a woman who is good enough. If you look at averages, men have a big advantage in size, speed, and strength, and the men that play pro sports are generally drawn from the top one percentile. That's miles and miles away from the average Joe; compared to the average Jane, you might as well be talking about a different planet. The only sports position or role I can think of where physical requirements might not be extreme is that of a knuckleball pitcher, but I don't know enough about knuckleballing to judge that. I have a very, very hard time imagining a woman being able to hold her own against top men anywhere else in pro sports. I'd be excited to see that, but I don't think it's going to happen.

Think of the late Florence Griffith-Joyner, who holds the women's 100m world record that nobody else has been able to get close to in the 20 years since her record run. Her time was 10.49, and when she retired, I remember some people saying that she could've tried out for an NFL team as a wide receiver. Could she have done it?

Let's think about it. I was told that 10.49 wasn't a bad speed for a WR those days, but neither was it good. Her career second best time was 10.61, which AFAIK is close to the slow territory. So, by being extraordinarily talented and concentrating all her effort into running a straight 100m as fast as she could, she could at best achieve decent speed for a pro wide receiver in her best-ever run. She had to my knowledge had no training in football-specific/WR-specific skills. She was 5'7" tall and weighed 130 lbs. If you had a young male track star who had her speed and her size, would you even consider putting him into football training so he could develop into a pro wide receiver?

piperclap · 09-04-2008, 02:11 AM

As for baseball, there's Lila Borders who pitched in the independent Northern League a few years back.

Manon Rheamue played goalie in an NHL exhibition game, and I think that'd be the only position a woman could play at a level like that against men in hockey. We had a few girls play on our high school teams until women's hockey got big here, and one of them was one of our better players, but any higher of a level, and the strength and size difference poses problems. That being said, there is a professional women's hockey league now too, mostly played in Canada.

Kekkonen · 09-04-2008, 02:22 AM

I think Rheaume played in two exhibition games, both for the Lightning shortly after the team was founded. Here are her career minor league stats; unfortunately, based on those stats, the only prediction one can make is that she would've gotten murdered in the NHL.

I think Hayley Wickenheiser's stint in the 3rd-highest level of Finnish men's hockey was at least as impressive as Rheaume's minor league career. She went 1+3 in 12 games in the regular season, and a pretty darn useful 1+6 in 11 post-season games, helping her team gain promotion to the second tier league. Unfortunately, the second-tier league (which is has semi- to full professional teams, as opposed to the almost-fully-amateur teams in the 3rd tier) was apparently too much for her; she suited up in 10 games in the fall, failed to register a point, and was gone before Christmas.

piperclap · 09-04-2008, 02:49 AM

I never really liked Wickenheiser, but I think thats due to the US/Canada rivarly.

She did play softball in the 2000 olympics, as well.

birddogg · 09-04-2008, 03:20 AM

Yes i understand that and would fully appreciate the feat in itself my questions are more geared toward the ruling...

I looked around various places on the net about the possibility and from what i read into MLB according to the 1952 ruling they are not allowed even in minors because thats still considered pro ball?

I Read things like "Jackie Mitchell, who, in an exhibition game struck out Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig".

What about a Woman place kicker? Id imagine if her accuracy was as such she very well could replace some NFL kickers even if the distance wasn't there .

Don't get me wrong im not some crazed Womens rights advocate,Just something im curious about.

Raderick · 09-04-2008, 03:27 AM

The Colorado Silver Bullets were an all-women's independent baseball team that fared fairly well in the years they existed (1990s), but they played Washington Generals-like teams.

Kekkonen · 09-04-2008, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birddogg

What about a Woman place kicker? Id imagine if her accuracy was as such she very well could replace some NFL kickers even if the distance wasn't there

The difference in shot velocity between male and female soccer players is generally pretty dramatic, even more so if you take the top cannons in men's soccer into account. Based on that, I doubt it. We may think that a placekicker who has trouble reaching the crossbar from 42 yards out kicks like a little girl (no offense intended), even though the more accurate description is that he has exceptional leg strength and the guy who gets the distance for a 52-yarder really kicks like a mutant mule on steroids.

birddogg · 09-04-2008, 05:53 AM

"Manon Rheamue played goalie in an NHL exhibition game"

Interesting... How did she do?

I live in Nashville and recently have started going to hockey games, Hope we can keep are team as long as possible really starting to like that sport.Always rumors of us loosing the Predators hope all that non sense stops we love our hockey in Nashville!

Football is great here don't get me wrong i have season tickets to both but you get so much more hockey during a season hard to beat that when you only get 8 home games in the NFL and 40 or so with NHL

.

Now if they can figure out what the hells going on with Alexander Radulov we can get on with Hockey preseason!

Kekkonen · 09-04-2008, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birddogg

"Manon Rheamue played goalie in an NHL exhibition game"

Interesting... How did she do?

If my memory serves, in the first one she played one period, and allowed 2 goals on 9 shots. No idea of how she looked apart from that stat line, or how she fared in her second exhibition appearance a year or two later. I think the coach later admitted that using her in those games was mostly just a gimmick to get some press for the Lightning, back then a newly-formed expansion team.

Quote:

Football is great here don't get me wrong i have season tickets to both but you get so much more hockey during a season hard to beat that when you only get 8 home games in the NFL and 40 or so with NHL .

Sure, but there is a flipside to that, which is also one of the reasons I love football: if you want to do well in the NFL, every game is important. Losing one is about equivalent to a 5-game losing streak in the NHL.

Cryomaniac · 09-04-2008, 07:21 AM

It should be allowed if they are good enough.

piperclap · 09-04-2008, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birddogg

"Manon Rheamue played goalie in an NHL exhibition game"

Interesting... How did she do?

I live in Nashville and recently have started going to hockey games, Hope we can keep are team as long as possible really starting to like that sport.Always rumors of us loosing the Predators hope all that non sense stops we love our hockey in Nashville!

Football is great here don't get me wrong i have season tickets to both but you get so much more hockey during a season hard to beat that when you only get 8 home games in the NFL and 40 or so with NHL

.

Now if they can figure out what the hells going on with Alexander Radulov we can get on with Hockey preseason!

Plenty of hockey to be had in that area...there's a minor league team in Knoxville, and MTSU, UT, and Vandy all have club teams.

Its there, you just gotta look a little harder.

birddogg · 09-04-2008, 10:26 AM

Oh yeah I'm sure haven't been watching hockey long i seen my first game last year got a handful of tickets from a buddy and promptly ordered season tickets on the one shot side about 10 rows up i like watching our goalie

After seeing about 10 games in the 07-08 season... Along with 1 playoff game(Game 3) ... i was hooked.I watched some minor league hockey in Memphis many years back but wasn't as electric as NHL. You probably know minor league baseball around here as well but it just isn't the same as going to see the Braves etc... Are AAA "Sounds" ended 59-81 so hopefully our minor league hockey is a little better.

piperclap · 09-04-2008, 10:42 AM

Not any high level minor league hockey in the area (there's a team over by memphis thats like a AA hockey team), but lots of low level pro stuff. Its fun hockey-its dirt cheap, and it hockey, so its all good.

09-03-2008, 10:43 PM	#1
birddogg Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 40	Women in pro sports? Obviously leagues like wnba etc diminish or eliminate chances of a woman in the NBA. But what about sports like baseball or hockey does anyone think we will see an woman in a mainstream pro sport in our lifetime? I will like to open this discussion in terms of what are the rules of things like this ? Are they even given a chance? I read things like "In 1952 Major League Baseball Commissioner Ford Frick sent notice that women are not to play on major league teams, stating his 'purpose was to prevent teams from using women players as a publicity stunt" Are rules like this still there even after all these years what about minor leagues? .I certainly think they deserve a chance to play pro sports with the men if there good enough.

09-04-2008, 02:22 AM	#4
Kekkonen All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Putting the 'in' in Finland Posts: 739	I think Rheaume played in two exhibition games, both for the Lightning shortly after the team was founded. Here are her career minor league stats; unfortunately, based on those stats, the only prediction one can make is that she would've gotten murdered in the NHL. I think Hayley Wickenheiser's stint in the 3rd-highest level of Finnish men's hockey was at least as impressive as Rheaume's minor league career. She went 1+3 in 12 games in the regular season, and a pretty darn useful 1+6 in 11 post-season games, helping her team gain promotion to the second tier league. Unfortunately, the second-tier league (which is has semi- to full professional teams, as opposed to the almost-fully-amateur teams in the 3rd tier) was apparently too much for her; she suited up in 10 games in the fall, failed to register a point, and was gone before Christmas. Last edited by Kekkonen; 09-04-2008 at 03:13 AM.

09-04-2008, 03:27 AM	#7
Raderick Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 2,737	The Colorado Silver Bullets were an all-women's independent baseball team that fared fairly well in the years they existed (1990s), but they played Washington Generals-like teams. __________________ Last edited by Raderick; 09-04-2008 at 03:29 AM.

09-04-2008, 07:21 AM	#11
Cryomaniac Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hucknall, Notts, UK Posts: 4,902	It should be allowed if they are good enough. __________________

09-04-2008, 02:11 AM	#3
piperclap All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 671	As for baseball, there's Lila Borders who pitched in the independent Northern League a few years back. Manon Rheamue played goalie in an NHL exhibition game, and I think that'd be the only position a woman could play at a level like that against men in hockey. We had a few girls play on our high school teams until women's hockey got big here, and one of them was one of our better players, but any higher of a level, and the strength and size difference poses problems. That being said, there is a professional women's hockey league now too, mostly played in Canada.

09-04-2008, 02:49 AM	#5
piperclap All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 671	I never really liked Wickenheiser, but I think thats due to the US/Canada rivarly. She did play softball in the 2000 olympics, as well.

09-04-2008, 03:20 AM	#6
birddogg Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 40	Yes i understand that and would fully appreciate the feat in itself my questions are more geared toward the ruling... I looked around various places on the net about the possibility and from what i read into MLB according to the 1952 ruling they are not allowed even in minors because thats still considered pro ball? I Read things like "Jackie Mitchell, who, in an exhibition game struck out Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig". What about a Woman place kicker? Id imagine if her accuracy was as such she very well could replace some NFL kickers even if the distance wasn't there . Don't get me wrong im not some crazed Womens rights advocate,Just something im curious about.

09-04-2008, 05:53 AM	#9
birddogg Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 40	"Manon Rheamue played goalie in an NHL exhibition game" Interesting... How did she do? I live in Nashville and recently have started going to hockey games, Hope we can keep are team as long as possible really starting to like that sport.Always rumors of us loosing the Predators hope all that non sense stops we love our hockey in Nashville! Football is great here don't get me wrong i have season tickets to both but you get so much more hockey during a season hard to beat that when you only get 8 home games in the NFL and 40 or so with NHL . Now if they can figure out what the hells going on with Alexander Radulov we can get on with Hockey preseason!

09-04-2008, 10:26 AM	#13
birddogg Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 40	Oh yeah I'm sure haven't been watching hockey long i seen my first game last year got a handful of tickets from a buddy and promptly ordered season tickets on the one shot side about 10 rows up i like watching our goalie After seeing about 10 games in the 07-08 season... Along with 1 playoff game(Game 3) ... i was hooked.I watched some minor league hockey in Memphis many years back but wasn't as electric as NHL. You probably know minor league baseball around here as well but it just isn't the same as going to see the Braves etc... Are AAA "Sounds" ended 59-81 so hopefully our minor league hockey is a little better.

09-04-2008, 10:42 AM	#14
piperclap All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 671	Not any high level minor league hockey in the area (there's a team over by memphis thats like a AA hockey team), but lots of low level pro stuff. Its fun hockey-its dirt cheap, and it hockey, so its all good.