Player development is broken! Please fix!

[bababui]

Originally Posted by treedom

Sound is just about as useful as my nipples.

Depending who your lovers are, that either makes sound a great thing or a forgotten thing.

[Carplos]

Originally Posted by deadringer

Doesn't that just mean that you aren't noticing that it's broken?

Maybe. I don't consider it broken, just needs improvements. Also, the end results are sound and that's what I'm interested in as well.

[treedom]

Originally Posted by bababui

Depending who your lovers are, that either makes sound a great thing or a forgotten thing.

Have there been any recent scientific studies involving Scandinavians on the subject?

[StyxNCa]

Originally Posted by RonCo

The reason this is important is because changing the development engine is going to be hard. .....Changing the design is a big-danged deal.

Well he is getting paid and for him it is work. Sometimes work is hard. I would even be willing to pay more for the product if it would make it worth his while. I've always considered the game under-priced anyway.

[RonCo]

Originally Posted by Carplos

Maybe. I don't consider it broken, just needs improvements. Also, the end results are sound and that's what I'm interested in as well.

Saying something is "broken" is alarmist. It's not broken. It's just quite a bit wrong, as measured against real life studies performed by smart people who know baseball. If you honestly don't care about that, then this conversation isn't valuable to you.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Antonin

Well, OOTP is not for everybody. Perhaps PureSim or Baseball Mogul would be better for you.

Perhaps moving to China would be better for you.

Keep personalities out of this.

[DaMook]

Originally Posted by Bears5122

Catering to that "one group" would dramatically impact the sales of the game and bring the community back to what it was 5 years ago. The "one group" has been ignored the past 5 years while the Samoan Handstand League of Eastern Chile took precedent.

I agree that it's an international game, but MLB is the main reason it is and still the overwhelming favorite amongst fans of the sport. It should be given the most attention and the game should model it well before anything else is touched.

What people aren't realizing is this isn't about MLB vs international leagues. This is about player development which affects ALL leagues in the game so this should be the #1 concern of all players of OOTP.

And yes, the player development is definitely broken. It's been broken since OOTP 2006 and it's getting worse and worse with each release. It's so bad now that it's almost pointless to draft or trade for any spects.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by RonCo

I understand that logic. And I would tend to agree with it, but in the end that conversation is a dead end with no value.

It is NOT a conversation with no value; it is an important one.

We didn't get core features we should have way back in 2006 because time and resources were spent on quirks and foreign leagues instead.

We haven't received features and fixes we should have lately because time and resources are still being spent on quirks like sound.

OOTP needs to dedicate itself to fixing what's broken/flawed/cracked in ther simulation engine and the MLB model instead of, say, giving us what the quirkheads have asked for next, which is female leagues.

That's what this is about: priorities. Does OOTP want to actually make the game work properly, or will it waste more time and resources on pointless frippery instead?

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by DaMook

What people aren't realizing is this isn't about MLB vs international leagues.

Part of it is. Time and resources were wasted on international leagues that should have been spent on the MLB model.

[David Watts]

Quirkmeisters, Quirkheads and Frippery -

[RchW]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Perhaps moving to China would be better for you.

Keep personalities out of this.

Maybe you should lead the way by lowering the sneer factor in your posts. Your attitude is not helpful.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Quirkmeisters, Quirkheads and Frippery

I hate to spoil your fun, but "quirks" for OOTP High Weirdness isn't original with me. Some other guy used it to describe the ridiculous non-MLB strangeness and it stuck. "Frippery" I got from my boss, it's the term he uses for trivial non-essentials that get in the way of the mission.

[DaMook]

Originally Posted by bababui

Player development is a completely random thing in the MLB. Anyone who thinks otherwise, please provide a model that will accurately model the development and aging of players in only the major leagues. Its not going to happen. For every Ramirez and Pujols, you have Knoblach and Sexson. Then there is the case of David Ortiz or Reggie Willets. What you want wont happen because its unmoddable on an individual basis.

I'm not sure what form of MLB you're watching but player development is definitely not random. Not even close. There are situations where a player will improve and turn into a great player but a majority of the above average players are good all through the minors. There's a reason why we have scouts. There's a reason why we have top prospects in real life. These are the players with the greatest potential and the most talent. Prospects are a crapshoot to a certain extent but this is really not the issue here.

The issue here is, which I've repeated about a million times already on this forum, is that high potential prospects will have huge and sudden drops in potential for no apparent reason. Even if they've performed well on the major league level. These drastic changes happen over a few DAYS not years. And they also happen very frequently. Now this isn't the only side of the story because this sudden change also happens the other way as well. Mediocre prospects become top prospects over night. It happens to me all the time and it happens throughout the league I'm in.

These issues exist. If some of you want to ignore them and go on playing the game, then fine, but I'd prefer a more accurate player engine over any of the gimmicky features.

[DaMook]

Originally Posted by Bears5122

I've been thinking that for a few years now. While I understand Markus' theory behind it, I just think it was too ambitious to believe that you could build a system that could accurately play the wild variations that are available as well as an MLB simulation. There are just too many variables from universe to universe to be able to not only pinpoint problems, but achieve any consistency.

While I may be in the minority here, but I never thought 6.5 was a bad game. I never felt the whole concept needed to be scrapped. Sure there were some issues and features that were needed, but it was fun. It wasn't all that hard to jump into and in fact I miss the simplicity of some of the tasks. Mods were easier to develop, especially rosters.

I have a sad feeling that the game is just so far beyond that stage that there is no turning back. I wonder what kind of game OOTP would have been if the last 5 years had been spent improving 6.5 and not trying to create some wacky open ended version of baseball. I just don't think you'll ever be able to get realistic modern day results with such a complex and open system.

Same here. I miss 6.5. I think the player development in that version for leagues (sorry for the pun) ahead of the current version.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by RchW

Maybe you should lead the way by lowering the sneer factor in your posts. Your attitude is not helpful.

Neither is yours, buddy. If I want to sneer at stupidity and bad ideas - and I sure do - that's my privilege, just as long as I'm not sneering at individuals.

Let's stay on the subject and away from the pointless personal attacks.

[andymac]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Part of it is. Time and resources were wasted on international leagues that should have been spent on the MLB model.

In your opinion. I don't think the international implementation takes much in the way of time resources (most of it was done with the database changes in 2007) and even if it does, get over it. Lots of people use that function even if you don't.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by DaMook

These issues exist. If some of you want to ignore them and go on playing the game, then fine, but I'd prefer a more accurate player engine over any of the gimmicky features.

That's a good summary.

[DaMook]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Part of it is. Time and resources were wasted on international leagues that should have been spent on the MLB model.

But don't all the league run off of the same player development engine?

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by andymac

In your opinion.

It's not an opinion, it's a fact. OOTP 2006 - the Abomination - prominently featured silly international leagues but left out needed functions and featured weak models. The time - even if it was only a week - that was spent on international leagues could have been far better used to make the core game better.

[andymac]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Neither is yours, buddy. If I want to sneer at stupidity and bad ideas - and I sure do - that's my privilege, just as long as I'm not sneering at individuals.

Let's stay on the subject and away from the pointless personal attacks.

You are the one starting the attacks with the generic insults and exaggerations on the way others play the game. Sure, you are entitled to your opinion but if you don't change your tone you certainly won't be contributing to the improvement of the game.