BZ 1517: Template bug - does not work as described

[zonk84]

I think this is a bug -- and for folks that prefer to play with MLB templates, but fictional players, it's an enormous problem.

Can it be fixed?

The Manual (under Templates) describes templates this way:

Templates are a neat feature that can save you time when you create multiple worlds. If you create a template during the game creation process, a template creates a skeleton of the game structure you have created. You could use this template to create five different games with identical structures but different players.

However, this does not work. There appears to be no way to create a template (team names, logos, awards, league structure, ballpark settings, etc) that can then be used with fictional players. When using templates - you are either stuck with the player pool that came from the original league used to store the template, or, you end up with zero players.

There are multiple discussion threads (here and here) that attempt to find ways around this problem, but none work.... One ends up without a full pool, a fatally flawed pool -- and above all, a pool that is not scoutable by your scout (essentially making the inaugural draft an exercise in futility).

[bp_]

hmmm, I haven't been able to figure this out but I think there must be a way to do it. Icy released a MLB template last year that does almost exactly what you describe: Templates

Scroll down to MLB 2007 Template & Graphic Pack by Icy

[zonk84]

Originally Posted by bp_

hmmm, I haven't been able to figure this out but I think there must be a way to do it. Icy released a MLB template last year that does almost exactly what you describe: Templates

Scroll down to MLB 2007 Template & Graphic Pack by Icy

Yeah - this is what I did in ootp2006, ootp2007, and ootp2008.

It was klugey, it wasn't pretty, and it was prone to sometimes creating corrupt leagues -- but I'd essentially use either a regular MLB quickstart or MLB template, delete all players, then re-save as a template.

However - it does not work the same way in 2009. I've tried about 10 different templates now -- using every possible combination, save point, and method I can think of.

None work.

You either get stuck with the players from the league you used as a template -- or, you end up with no players.

As described in the two threads I linked to, creating fic players doesn't work either. Your scout has no ratings on the pool... so there's no point in conducting a fictional draft, and what's more -- it's impossible to create a good pool... you cannot get a good initial mix due to the create "fill teams" works.

It's a huge problem for those of us that like to play with fictional players, but real teams.

[bp_]

OK, so as of right now all templates are saved with players created already? And if you delete all the players, save the template, load up the template in a new game and then have the game generate new players they _________________

Fill in the blank for me. I want to make sure I understand fully.

[zonk84]

Originally Posted by bp_

OK, so as of right now all templates are saved with players created already? And if you delete all the players, save the template, load up the template in a new game and then have the game generate new players they _________________

Fill in the blank for me. I want to make sure I understand fully.

Correct.

If I save a template with the original players pool intact - the players stay with the template (not that it really matters, but even if you release all players, they show up on their original team. I select 'Run Inaugural Draft' on the league creation page, the teams are still populated and the inaugural draft pool is empty).

If I delete all players, save the template, then use that template to start a new league -- I get no players at all (either on teams or in the inaugural draft pool).

In such an empty/no players league - assuming we're talking about the same function ("Fill Teams with Fictional Players", under 'Roster Functions', League setup tab) - there are multiple problems with this approach -

1. first and foremost, your scout has no ratings on the newly created players, so you cannot run the "release, redraft" -- as you have no ratings for which to make drafting decisions.

2. Equally as flawed -- the I believe the "Fill Teams with Fictional Players" isn't intended to create a player pool. You have to do it individually for all 13 leagues -- and the players created for minor league teams are utterly worthless (they're all just filler).

Sooo... you cannot realistically create a complete "rounded" pool of initial players to populate the league, but even if you could -- you cannot run the inaugural draft because they will be unscouted by your scout.

[zonk84]

Let's be clear though --

The fundamental bug is that templates do not work as described (or as they worked in 2006/2007/2008). They're basically nothing more than QuickStarts now.

The template should keep the skeleton - but create new players (I would hope new personnel, too -- but players would be enough).

[zonk84]

I'm wondering if perhaps it might be possible to implement a simple resolution to this....

Could a selection be added to the 'Options' page, under league setup, following the 'Inaugural Fantasy Draft' -- Hold Draft --

Perhaps a "Generate new player pool" selection?

I hate to keep hitting this same issue, but for those of us that play OOTP in 10-15 season chunks, then like to start new leagues -- the lack of a simple, streamlined option to quickly create a new player pool is a real obstacle.

[bp_]

Bug 1517 - can't guarantee Markus will do anything about this but it is logged for consideration.

[OldFatGuy]

Yes, I too have seen this.

Another way of looking at the problem is this: Right now, there is not discernable difference between a template and a quick start, whereas there should be. The template should not include players.

[Nutlaw]

Markus states that this is intentional.

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by Nutlaw

Markus states that this is intentional.

Huh? What is the difference between a quickstart and a template then?

[battists]

Ugh, this is confusing, even for me!

Let me see if I can speak to "the man" and figure something out.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by battists

Ugh, this is confusing, even for me!

Let me see if I can speak to "the man" and figure something out.

Any update on this?

[OldFatGuy]

Originally Posted by Andy

Any update on this?

I take it the lack of response means no update???

FWIW, in the two previous versions of OOTP (OOTP 2007 & OOTP 8), the template WAS different. This thing where the template now includes the players just occurred in version OOTP 9.

So, if this is intentional, I guess I too wonder what the point is to having quickstarts and templates, as they both are almost identical now.

[Carplos]

From my experience, it only saves the players if you save the template after running the creation process. If you save a template before you press "start game," you can generate new players.

[OldFatGuy]

Originally Posted by Carplos

From my experience, it only saves the players if you save the template after running the creation process. If you save a template before you press "start game," you can generate new players.

I'm pretty sure this was different in OOTP8, and besides, if you save the template before hitting "start game", how does that then save logos, unis, and hats as part of the template?

EDIT: OK, I guess I "misremembered" (to borrow from Roger Clemens ), I just saved my OOTP8 league as a template, and then created a new league from that template, and it also included the players. My bad. I still don't understand how saving it before creation would inlclude the art, but maybe it wasn't intended to. I'll stay out of this thread now since its obvious I don't have a clue what I'm talking about.

[Carplos]

My templates created based on already created leagues saved players in 2007/8.

how does that then save logos, unis, and hats as part of the template?

It doesn't? But I don't use facegen very often and I put my logos with color codes in the logo folder so that's not an issue. You could do the same with unis and hats too.

I like the way templates work very much, for the most part (I hate that it won't allow database changes...)