Early OOTP10 suggestions

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Who Killed Kenny?

I would rather Markus make "Wolf-baseball" very solid before branching out into European-style leagues.

Please don't call it that. Just call it what it is, Major League Baseball. Not the East Nigerian Really Almost Baseball League, or the South China Baseball Association and Bicycling Club, but Major League Baseball. The one and only.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Wolf, since we all know what you don't want, what do you want to see in the next version of the game?

No silliness. No "quirky things." Just all the features that were lost along the way but were there in 6.5 finally put back into the game, a fully-functional and accurate Major League model, and an improved AI.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Major League Baseball. The one and only.

So what's Japanese Baseball?

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Just all the features that were lost along the way but were there in 6.5 finally put back into the game, a fully-functional and accurate Major League model, and an improved AI.

Fair enough, but what if you get that and some other quirkier things?

[Who Killed Kenny?]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Please don't call it that.

Just a failed attempt at humor . But I get what you're saying.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Nice to see that someone gets it. The number of people who want these "quirky things" (good phrase there) are a tiny, insignificant minority. If the game is going to succeed - especially now that it is being mass marketed via Steam Powered Games - then it is going to need mass market appeal, and in baseball that is spelled M-L-B.

Yes, if the game is to ever go mainstream like FM (not sure that's possible in the US with our graphic driven gaming culture) or to at least show substantial growth MLB will be the driving factor. As has been said before the vast majority of people searching for a baseball game are looking for a MLB experience. Good point Wolf, I hadn't even thought about Steam and the users there searching for the career type baseball game "they've always wanted but could never find". If they find it with fictional leagues, women's leagues, or anything goes prominently featured instead of MLB they will simply move on. The great thing about OOTP though is if they buy it for MLB they just may find, as many have, that moving onto fictional player created worlds can really be fun. But if they never buy because MLB isn't presented as the main focus of the game, both historical and current, they will never have the opportunity to move onto OOTP's other strengths.

Some post well what do you mean by MLB? Current or historical they're different animals? I say both should be fleshed out to the fullest. This will draw in the largest number of buyers. And since both can still use a lot of work that's where the priorities should go. Not because I want them but because it makes the most sense from an economics standpoint.

It's not about being fair or why does he get his thing in the game and I don't.
It's about sales and growing the company and game. If this ever became a third as popular as FM Markus would have a team of programmers working for him. It may never happen but it's only real chance is with a MLB drawing card. The courts rulings on player names and stats have opened that window not taking advantage of it to it's fullest would be a mistake.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Sweed

If they find it with fictional leagues, women's leagues, or anything goes prominently featured instead of MLB they will simply move on.

I never suggested that any of those things shouldbe "prominently featured" just that they should be there.

It's about sales and growing the company and game. If this ever became a third as popular as FM Markus would have a team of programmers working for him.

If and when I graduate college I will gladly work for Markus if he needs someone =).

The courts rulings on player names and stats have opened that window not taking advantage of it to it's fullest would be a mistake.

Again, I don't think anyone is saying that.

[southside_hitmen]

May I point out that with the Olympics this year and the 2nd World Baseball Classic next year, many may also be looking for a game that delivers what sims like DMB can't. Fully functioning international leagues and international competitions could be a major market pleaser, especially with the ability to run all these leagues and competions in a single game file.

The ability to customize your baseball world is what sets OOTP apart from other baseball simulations on the marketplace right now. If people wanted only historical replays and the current majors, they would buy DMB. In fact, back when OOTP 7 was released, the customization and international leagues of OOTP was drove me to purchase the game over DMB and BaseballMogul. I was a big FPS Baseball player back in the day and loved the ability to create your own leagues from the ground up.

[Vinny P.]

Originally Posted by thbroman

I am of two minds about the suggestions originally posted by cryomaniac. Personally, I would never use any of them myself, except the customization of suspensions, and because of that I tend to discount their importance. However, one is constantly reminded that this game has a very diverse constituency & it should aim to broaden its appeal outside the US and Canada. For that reason alone, some of these suggestions could be worth implementing.

That being said, my two main issues with the game concern: 1) the definition of pitcher's role and the impossibility of modifying endurance either through aging or training/coaching; and 2) the one previously mentioned by LGO: the absence of a realistic and historically flexible minor-league system. And because these are MY issues, they're obviously of world-shattering importance!

i probably shouldnt have said it was a miserable failure, that was just plain exageration. it was just the amount of whining and bickering over playing time for some of the MLB vets that the managers didnt wanna see play. and when i did watch some of te games, i didnt think they were all that exciting.

what year is the next WBC? i know its supposed to be every four years. maybe itll be better next time around.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Nihilianth

i probably shouldnt have said it was a miserable failure, that was just plain exageration. it was just the amount of whining and bickering over playing time for some of the MLB vets that the managers didnt wanna see play. and when i did watch some of te games, i didnt think they were all that exciting.

what year is the next WBC? i know its supposed to be every four years. maybe itll be better next time around.

I'm pretty sure it's every three years for the WBC.

I think I'm going to adopt The Wolf as my new spokesman.

[southside_hitmen]

Originally Posted by Nihilianth

what year is the next WBC? i know its supposed to be every four years. maybe itll be better next time around.

2009, then every four years after that

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

I never suggested that any of those things shouldbe "prominently featured" just that they should be there.



If and when I graduate college I will gladly work for Markus if he needs someone =).



Again, I don't think anyone is saying that.

But those prominently featured MLB capabilities need to be working not, having the problems we have today. Taking programming time away from that effort to add women that a tiny-tiny percentage of users will ever want or use is a problem IMHO.

Variable playoff structures would be a good thing. IMHO they shouldn't be made because you or I ask for them. They should be made because they will enhance the historical MLB capabilities of the game. Now the Diamond Mind player says hey I can buy OOTP for $25-$40 and replay history or I can use DMB and have to pay extra for any seasons I want to play. The result of adding this for historical MLB players will be a trickle down effect for fictional players of OOTP.

I play FM and really like relegation as it adds some excitement to your league.
However taking the time to implement it into OOTP, like women, is kind of a waste as the vast majority will never use it nor buy the game because of it.
Someone said that online leagues could use this as a way to stop teams from tanking to get a high pick. An honest question are there online leagues now that have so many on their waiting lists they will be running a lower league for teams to be relegated to or promoted from? Are there any online European leagues running that need relegation? My guess to both is no.

If you really want to work for Markus after you graduate my suggestion would be you encourage him to do everything in his power to grow the game now. To use all his energy to get the MLB model, historical and current, to be as good as possible to make the game appeal to the average baseball fan who will want to play in a MLB world. Without those type of sales the team will never have to be expanded.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Sweed

But those prominently featured MLB capabilities need to be working not, having the problems we have today.

Well, yes, that's obvious.

Taking programming time away from that effort to add women that a tiny-tiny percentage of users will ever want or use is a problem IMHO.

I certainly have never (And I doubt anyone else has) suggested that programming time be taken away to add these things, they should be extras. That doesn't mean we should dismiss them as "silly". As someone who is studying games design I know a small amount about scheduling / priorities, etc. and it is not an easy thing to do. The very first thing you should do is a priority list, and what I try to do with suggestions like women's leagues et al. is to get that stuff on the list, even if it is right at the bottom.

Variable playoff structures would be a good thing. IMHO they shouldn't be made because you or I ask for them. They should be made because they will enhance the historical MLB capabilities of the game. Now the Diamond Mind player says hey I can buy OOTP for $25-$40 and replay history or I can use DMB and have to pay extra for any seasons I want to play. The result of adding this for historical MLB players will be a trickle down effect for fictional players of OOTP.

Of course, but in my opinion fictional leagues should be very nearly as important as MLB stuff. Pretty much it should be something like 36% MLB, 34% Historical, 30% Fictional. Personally I very rarely play MLB, but I can see that it is clearly the selling point of the game.

I play FM and really like relegation as it adds some excitement to your league.
However taking the time to implement it into OOTP, like women, is kind of a waste as the vast majority will never use it nor buy the game because of it.
Someone said that online leagues could use this as a way to stop teams from tanking to get a high pick. An honest question are there online leagues now that have so many on their waiting lists they will be running a lower league for teams to be relegated to or promoted from? Are there any online European leagues running that need relegation? My guess to both is no.

I'm not a huge fan of relegation for anything other than soccer, specifically English soccer. It's an artifact of the large league system. I think there are some online leagues that would like to use it. I personally never would in fictional leagues, but I still think it should be an option. It isn't high priority though.

If you really want to work for Markus after you graduate my suggestion would be you encourage him to do everything in his power to grow the game now. To use all his energy to get the MLB model, historical and current, to be as good as possible to make the game appeal to the average baseball fan who will want to play in a MLB world. Without those type of sales the team will never have to be expanded.

I agree he should do that, but as I said above, there does need to be some focus on the fictional game without relying on "trickle down", since that only really lets us do things that have been done in real life, which is fine, but I at least like doing things that are a little whacky.

I would love to run my own games company one day, but the next best thing would be working for a small company like OOTPdevelopments.

[Antonin]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Yes, if the game is to ever go mainstream like FM (not sure that's possible in the US with our graphic driven gaming culture) or to at least show substantial growth MLB will be the driving factor....

... If this ever became a third as popular as FM Markus would have a team of programmers working for him.

I know what you mean but I have to smile at the comparison to FM.

FM may sell more units than OOTP, but, having been a player of FM/CM since 2001, I have to say I really wonder why. OOTP baseball is infinitely more realistic, flexible and just plain fun than FM. I think many FM fans continue to spout the game's praises because they read the hype every year and just feel that that's what they are supposed to do. They have no experience with anything else, because for the most part there is no serious competition.

A soccer game with OOTP's flexibility, customizability and a dedicated user community to create real rosters for those who don't want to play fictional would bury the FM franchise in a couple of years.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Antonin

A soccer game with OOTP's flexibility, customizability and a dedicated user community to create real rosters for those who don't want to play fictional would bury the FM franchise in a couple of years.

I agree 100%.

[bababui]

Originally Posted by Antonin

A soccer game with OOTP's flexibility, customizability and a dedicated user community to create real rosters for those who don't want to play fictional would bury the FM franchise in a couple of years.

LoL

FM does use the community to scout the real players. In England alone there a 7 leagues with more than 160 clubs (plus reserve and youth teams) and thousands of players. Multiply the nations by 60 and the task is really too daunting for a volunteer community to conquer.

FM has the challenge to accurately model both national and international football down to the smallest detail. The ability to customize in such a complex world would be quite limited if you wanted to have all the real major competitions.

As much as I love OOTP, it really cant compare to FM in realism. Have they fixed that Rule 5 bug yet. . And OOTP has yet to effectively mirror international baseball. If you want more customization, FM Live would likely be up your alley.

[thbroman]

Originally Posted by bababui

As much as I love OOTP, it really cant compare to FM in realism. Have they fixed that Rule 5 bug yet. . And OOTP has yet to effectively mirror international baseball. If you want more customization, FM Live would likely be up your alley.

Well . . . FM has its own problems with respect to the "realism" of its contracts and tranfer system. (That's not to say I don't like it. I do!)
Moreover, its audience is not driven by the hyper-realism of the historical gamers here. The problem faced by Markus -- attempting simultaneously to satisfy the needs of an increasingly internationalized contemporary situation yet not alienating those who want Honus Wagner and Ty Cobb on the field -- is, to my knowledge at least, unparalleled and certainly unenviable.

[Long_Long_Name]

Originally Posted by thbroman

Well . . . FM has its own problems with respect to the "realism" of its contracts and tranfer system. (That's not to say I don't like it. I do!)
Moreover, its audience is not driven by the hyper-realism of the historical gamers here. The problem faced by Markus -- attempting simultaneously to satisfy the needs of an increasingly internationalized contemporary situation yet not alienating those who want Honus Wagner and Ty Cobb on the field -- is, to my knowledge at least, unparalleled and certainly unenviable.

And then there's always this annoying bunch of us who always want more, more and more customization, and not giving MLB a shot at all .

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Sweed

If you really want to work for Markus after you graduate my suggestion would be you encourage him to do everything in his power to grow the game now.

A considerable part of that is having some new features to tout in each new version of the game. That's a basic economic fact — new features help sell a new version.

As I basically said earlier, it's not about the feature list, it's about the developmental priority assigned to the individual items on that feature list.

For those items I want to see in a new version, while they are all drawn from the actual baseball environment as it has existed in North America, they offer both historical authenticity and fictional flexibility. A win-win scenario it seems to me...

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

A considerable part of that is having some new features to tout in each new version of the game. That's a basic economic fact — new features help sell a new version.

As I basically said earlier, it's not about the feature list, it's about the developmental priority assigned to the individual items on that feature list.

For those items I want to see in a new version, while they are all drawn from the actual baseball environment as it has existed in North America, they offer both historical authenticity and fictional flexibility. A win-win scenario it seems to me...

Couldn't agree more, it's a point I've tried to make in the past. If you create a feature based on MLB past or present and get it working correctly you can then use that as a base to put in variables to be used in fictional play. As you say it becomes win-win.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Yes, if the game is to ever go mainstream like FM (not sure that's possible in the US with our graphic driven gaming culture) or to at least show substantial growth MLB will be the driving factor. As has been said before the vast majority of people searching for a baseball game are looking for a MLB experience. Good point Wolf, I hadn't even thought about Steam and the users there searching for the career type baseball game "they've always wanted but could never find". If they find it with fictional leagues, women's leagues, or anything goes prominently featured instead of MLB they will simply move on. The great thing about OOTP though is if they buy it for MLB they just may find, as many have, that moving onto fictional player created worlds can really be fun. But if they never buy because MLB isn't presented as the main focus of the game, both historical and current, they will never have the opportunity to move onto OOTP's other strengths.

Good point yourself.