Rick Aguilera Problem ??

clamel · 04-26-2008, 06:17 AM

If I start up a historical league in the mid-80´s and get in control of lets say the Red Sox.

I mark up that players will not progress on their own, BUT as a part of Lahmanns DB they will be "imported" every year (as I understand it). New players will pop up in their correct team, like A-Rod in Mariners when the year comes along.

I also understand that the progression WILL be on Lahmanns "terms", that's prgression almost as it happend historically. Am I correct on this one ?

If so I ran into the Rick Aguilera problem. He was a 4-5 starter for Mets Championship team, but after the trade to Twins he took on a closer role in the beginning of the 90´s.
Never mind that he might not be in a Twin uniform thanks to other ideas of the AI during the late 80´s.
BUT if he starts my historical simulation as a starter, WILL he turn into a super closer for the 90´s as he did in real life, OR ????
If he does turn into this closer thanks to Lahmans important in 1991 or 92 what will happen. He might have been a 2-3 starter the year for an unknown team, that already spent money for a closer like Randy Myers.

What I am driving at is how much will Lahmanns DB change and correct the history of baseball.
Honestly I would be glad if Aguilera turned into a closer after several years as a so-so starter. We of course have many more similar players over the years with same issues. Closers turn starter and viceversa. Take Tom Gordon, Derek Lowe and so on.
Then the AI might just decide to do some turning of it´s own.

Alex Rodriguez shortstop to 3Base comes to mind ............

This turned out long but I´m sure many simmers can give me a nice answer on this.

jtb · 04-26-2008, 12:13 PM

I am not an expert by any means and there are tons of OOTPer's more qualified to answer, but I think the recalculate feature is what you are looking for.

I think this is designed for example when Babe Ruth turns from pitcher to elite batter etc.

Hope this helps.

Charlie Hough · 04-26-2008, 02:40 PM

Yes, as long as you have set the game to recalculate ratings based on real life statistics in the Lahman database, then Aguilera will become a star closer.

By default, when using the Lahman database, the game will recalculate ratings based on a three-year window.

Let's say that you just completed the 1989 season in OOTP and you're using the three-year recalculation. When determining what a player's ratings should be for the upcoming 1990 season, it will include the previous season, the current season, and the next season in its algorithm. In other words, it will take a player's statistics from 1989, 1990, and 1991 to compute his updated ratings.

So the game would see that Aguilera started some games in 1989 but mostly appeared as a reliever, and it would also see that he was a dominant closer in 1990 and 1991. So his ratings would be changed so that he is suited for a star closer role. That should include changes to his endurance and even the role that the AI assigns for him, although his 1989 starting experience might mean that he temporarily has higher endurance than you might expect for a closer. In theory, it could allow for Aguilera to continue for another season as a starter or spot starter, or you could move him into the closer role. A lot depends on the exact results of the recalculation and your particular preferences.

Once you simulate the 1990 season, then the 1989 statistics will drop from the calculation when his ratings are updated again. So then Aguilera will have the ratings only for a closer, since the 1990, 1991, and 1992 seasons would be used in the algorithm. Again, it's always possible for there to be some slight variation, but the recalculations work extremely well.

If you want OOTP to be absolutely strict about calculating a player's ratings for each season, then you can tell it to only use one season for the ratings. This would mean that it calculates the new ratings based only on the upcoming season. But this can result in some extreme changes. Yes, it's technically more realistic, but it may not be advisable unless you're going strictly by the actual rosters for each season. Otherwise, it means that some players will drastically drop off or ramp up in ability from one season to the next, and the accompanying roster strains or advantages can cause problems.

By using the three-year model, it seems to allow players to 'phase in' or 'phase out' in productivity, sometimes more accurately simulating the more gradual downfall or emergence of certain players. It can even allow some young players to be ready for the majors about a season before they were brought up in real life, because the game can see their next season's potential. It can also make your minor leagues a bit more robust and interesting, because players can begin to wind down their careers and end up in the minors before retiring, instead of absolutely collapsing and being left for dead in the free agent pool.

Run some test seasons and watch how it works. I'm willing to bet that you'll be pretty happy with the results.

clamel · 04-27-2008, 10:25 AM

Great Charlie,
now I understand that 3-y recalc stuff. This makes a lot of sense to me. Aguilera for one would be avalaible to start in 1990 season, but if the AI sees his closerstardom being born the AI hopefully will move him (Whatever team he is on)
A little cheat could sneak in I think. If you got lets say Aguilera as your 5th starter and ready to drop him to get an expensive closer, you got the advantage to know and hang on to him to get that closer. Invest in the starter instead. Well, one have to be carefull simming when you have a "cristal ball" and can "look" into the future ;-)

Feeling good to startup a historical 25 year sweep as soon as I figured out Minor league system and such.

Thanks mate

04-26-2008, 06:17 AM	#1
clamel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Across the Pond Posts: 1,038	Rick Aguilera Problem ?? If I start up a historical league in the mid-80´s and get in control of lets say the Red Sox. I mark up that players will not progress on their own, BUT as a part of Lahmanns DB they will be "imported" every year (as I understand it). New players will pop up in their correct team, like A-Rod in Mariners when the year comes along. I also understand that the progression WILL be on Lahmanns "terms", that's prgression almost as it happend historically. Am I correct on this one ? If so I ran into the Rick Aguilera problem. He was a 4-5 starter for Mets Championship team, but after the trade to Twins he took on a closer role in the beginning of the 90´s. Never mind that he might not be in a Twin uniform thanks to other ideas of the AI during the late 80´s. BUT if he starts my historical simulation as a starter, WILL he turn into a super closer for the 90´s as he did in real life, OR ???? If he does turn into this closer thanks to Lahmans important in 1991 or 92 what will happen. He might have been a 2-3 starter the year for an unknown team, that already spent money for a closer like Randy Myers. What I am driving at is how much will Lahmanns DB change and correct the history of baseball. Honestly I would be glad if Aguilera turned into a closer after several years as a so-so starter. We of course have many more similar players over the years with same issues. Closers turn starter and viceversa. Take Tom Gordon, Derek Lowe and so on. Then the AI might just decide to do some turning of it´s own. Alex Rodriguez shortstop to 3Base comes to mind ............ This turned out long but I´m sure many simmers can give me a nice answer on this. Last edited by clamel; 04-26-2008 at 06:34 AM.

04-26-2008, 12:13 PM	#2
jtb All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 595	I am not an expert by any means and there are tons of OOTPer's more qualified to answer, but I think the recalculate feature is what you are looking for. I think this is designed for example when Babe Ruth turns from pitcher to elite batter etc. Hope this helps.

04-26-2008, 02:40 PM	#3
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,642	Yes, as long as you have set the game to recalculate ratings based on real life statistics in the Lahman database, then Aguilera will become a star closer. By default, when using the Lahman database, the game will recalculate ratings based on a three-year window. Let's say that you just completed the 1989 season in OOTP and you're using the three-year recalculation. When determining what a player's ratings should be for the upcoming 1990 season, it will include the previous season, the current season, and the next season in its algorithm. In other words, it will take a player's statistics from 1989, 1990, and 1991 to compute his updated ratings. So the game would see that Aguilera started some games in 1989 but mostly appeared as a reliever, and it would also see that he was a dominant closer in 1990 and 1991. So his ratings would be changed so that he is suited for a star closer role. That should include changes to his endurance and even the role that the AI assigns for him, although his 1989 starting experience might mean that he temporarily has higher endurance than you might expect for a closer. In theory, it could allow for Aguilera to continue for another season as a starter or spot starter, or you could move him into the closer role. A lot depends on the exact results of the recalculation and your particular preferences. Once you simulate the 1990 season, then the 1989 statistics will drop from the calculation when his ratings are updated again. So then Aguilera will have the ratings only for a closer, since the 1990, 1991, and 1992 seasons would be used in the algorithm. Again, it's always possible for there to be some slight variation, but the recalculations work extremely well. If you want OOTP to be absolutely strict about calculating a player's ratings for each season, then you can tell it to only use one season for the ratings. This would mean that it calculates the new ratings based only on the upcoming season. But this can result in some extreme changes. Yes, it's technically more realistic, but it may not be advisable unless you're going strictly by the actual rosters for each season. Otherwise, it means that some players will drastically drop off or ramp up in ability from one season to the next, and the accompanying roster strains or advantages can cause problems. By using the three-year model, it seems to allow players to 'phase in' or 'phase out' in productivity, sometimes more accurately simulating the more gradual downfall or emergence of certain players. It can even allow some young players to be ready for the majors about a season before they were brought up in real life, because the game can see their next season's potential. It can also make your minor leagues a bit more robust and interesting, because players can begin to wind down their careers and end up in the minors before retiring, instead of absolutely collapsing and being left for dead in the free agent pool. Run some test seasons and watch how it works. I'm willing to bet that you'll be pretty happy with the results.

04-27-2008, 10:25 AM	#4
clamel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Across the Pond Posts: 1,038	Great Charlie, now I understand that 3-y recalc stuff. This makes a lot of sense to me. Aguilera for one would be avalaible to start in 1990 season, but if the AI sees his closerstardom being born the AI hopefully will move him (Whatever team he is on) A little cheat could sneak in I think. If you got lets say Aguilera as your 5th starter and ready to drop him to get an expensive closer, you got the advantage to know and hang on to him to get that closer. Invest in the starter instead. Well, one have to be carefull simming when you have a "cristal ball" and can "look" into the future ;-) Feeling good to startup a historical 25 year sweep as soon as I figured out Minor league system and such. Thanks mate